Washing vegetables in the kitchen sink

[sparrowgrass]

I usually use a big bowl or the salad spinner. If I am canning and need to wash an immense quantity of veggies, I do use the sink, but I clean it, and the stopper, quite thoroughly first.

I would not, however, toss a veggie just because it hit the sink bottom, especially if it was going to be cooked later. I would rinse it off and call it good, as long as the sink was reasonably clean, which it is most of the time.

[ruthcooks]

I feel the same way about people eating standing "over the sink". Would you eat standing over the toilet? I've heard that the kitchen sink is one of the dirtiest/germy-est places in your house.

[Lisa Shock]

I'd like to point out that salmonella is just one foodborne pathogen that may enter your kitchen. There are lots of others out there, including e. coli -which is probably the most universally problematic since virtually everyone has the bacteria in their bodies and on their skin. (usually lots of e. coli right around the outside of the nose, so someone rubbing their face then touching food can contaminate it) I like to wash my hands before I enter the kitchen to try and lessen the volume of pathogens entering the room.

I wash some things as I bring them home, like melons, and don't wash other things, like pre-bagged carrots or potatoes.

Since I'm a vegetarian, I don't worry so much about the actual foods I bring into the kitchen, I worry more about who touched them at the store (sick people, people who didn't wash after a restroom visit, etc.) and if they went down a checkout conveyor belt that might have had leaky meat packaging on it.

[annabelle]

Yes, Lisa is right that salmonella is but one of the food-borne poathogens that can be brought into the kitchen. E. coli is flora of the gut. I think that you may be thinking of staph on the face and hands, also normal (S. epidermidis). Our nasal pasages and the throat also naturally contain haemophilus (not the influenza kind). So, yes, you are right to presume that our food is not necessarily very clean when we bring it into our homes. People are quite slip-shod about washing after using the bathroom, cough into their hands, etc. I wash just about everything.

[andiesenji]

I have a separate sink for washing vegetables and fruit and it is not used for hand washing or anything else. It is sanitized with a bleach/water 10% dilution prior to use then rinsed. There is only cold water to that sink anyway.

If I do have to use the regular sink, I have a large basin in which the vegetables are washed because, even though I do sanitize that sink after every use, I am taking no chances. I was hospitalized with a severe case of salmonella several years ago and vowed, never again!

Chlorine bleach diluted with water is not poisonous in the environment, it degrade rapidly and is in all drinking water and is the way questionable water is rendered potable when sufficient filtration is absent.

Using it to sanitize a sink is much safer than many other agents but if you are adamantly against it, use sodium percarbonate (OxiClean). It takes longer to achieve the sanitizing effect - 20-30 minutes where the bleach operates in seconds.

The only time bleach in quantity is contraindicated, is when you are on a closed septic system as it will kill the bacteria needed to process the stuff in the septic tank.

[Blether]

I wonder how many people suffer from a misconception about the sterility of vegetables in the first place, which grow out in the fields under an open sky, where birds can excrete over them, and beetles, caterpillars and other bugs, and rodents and birds live amongst them. They grow in soil - see that word, 'soil' ? And do we imagine that farm workers wash their hands conscientiously before every picking session ? I didn't when I hand-gathered spuds as a schoolkid, but then they'd already grown in earth full of god-knows-what. I felt it was more the potatoes that owed me a favour in the cleanliness department.

Disinfectants notwithstanding, I don't think the domestic kitchen will ever be a sterile environment. Surgical instruments are sterilised at 125C, aren't they ? Food canning uses a similar hold temperature, doesn't it ? Water on its own is quite effective at washing away the bulk of bacteria, and hot water more so; soap takes out grease and oil. Drying also contributes to cleanliness - life needs water. I don't see my tableware or cutlery as sterile after I wash it, but once it's dry I'm happy for it to sit in a cupboard for a long time before I use it again. I feel happy that the dish sponge dries out completely every day, as does the sink once emptied, and as the chopping boards do between uses.

As for my sink, I like to sponge it over with dish soap once I've washed it empty of dishes, particularly when it's visibly dirty with greasy spatter, but I don't do so every time. I gave up washing chicken and other meats for cooking, some time ago. I do prepare quite a lot of seafood in it, but I don't use any "sterilising" agent of any kind on the sink. Every so often the plastic draining rack & board get a soaking in bleach, in that sink, but if I wasn't doing that I'd not be concerned about bleaching the sink for its own sake.

The "wash a week's veg" idea has a surface attraction - I can wash & dry carrots. But green leaves, as has been said, will quickly dissolve, and will retain water so that any small amount of bacteria on them will have that week to reproduce. Wash-for-use is my approach, under the tap without filling the sink or laying the veggies in it. If they touch the sides, I'll re-rinse that part. For use unpeeled, I'll use the scourer side of the dish sponge on carrots, spuds and the like. For anything that'll be cooked, I'm less concerned about cleanliness than am I am for things that'll be served raw.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Blether (log)

[Lisa Shock]

Sorry, I was thinking about an old Penn & Teller show about toilet seats...

But, um, well, I really started keeping things cleaner when I saw a study showing that about 25% of men don't wash after using the restroom. Those people are out in public places touching things. A study of my local mall in 1997 showed a significant amount of fecal matter on the escalator handrails. So, I'm pretty skeptical about anything a stranger may have touched in the supermarket.

Yes, anything grown in soil will have a variety of things growing on it. But, I try to minimize my risks by keeping things clean and properly handling food.

The last thing I want to do is to be culturing pathogens in my sink by leaving it dirty.

[Blether]

Yes, the foecal-oral route is the most common source of "foodborne illness", isn't it ?

There's no denying the importance of proper kitchen hygiene procedure - washing hands before cooking, separation of raw & cooked foods, care over temperatures and hold/storage times, appropriate washing of ingredients.

At the same time, "clean is good" doesn't translate to "absolute cleanliness of everything is best". It's worth understanding the mechanisms of infection and being aware of which hygienic procedures are effective and necessary in practice, and in which specific situations.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Blether (log)

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm with Blether on this one. I consider the sink clean enough for cleaning dishes, and likewise clean enough for washing vegetables that have come out of the ground. As I clean them, I take them out of the sink and put them on a clean board or in a colander or bowl. If I have to do something like washing five pounds of sandy spinach, I'll clean the sink out more thoroughly than usual and fill it with water.

[GlorifiedRice]

WOW! I really never thought this topic would be so "partisan"!

1) I was always under the understanding that a double sink was that one side was for WASH and the other was for RINSE.

2) You guys are correct in that wildlife poops etc on vegetables in a garden, after all the Odwalla brand juice ecoli scare was caused by deer poop infesting the raw juice with ecoli.

3) Even if you clean the walls and floor of a sink very well, its always that groove in the drain and the stopper that can come back to bite you. You cannot clean that effectively.

4) Remember that even big bag salad companies have had issues with food poisoning even though they triple wash their greens.

3 & 4 are the reasons I dont put food Im gonna eat in the sink.

[Simon_S]

I'm confused. If you wash plates in the sink and ultimately eat off them, surely that's worse than washing vegetables in the same sink and then cooking those vegetables?

Edited June 13, 2011 by Simon_S (log)

[Blether]

Personally, I wash dishes & cookware under a running tap and with a soapy sponge. I rinse everything off under the running water before stacking in the dish rack.

Back in the family home in the UK, the procedure was to fill the sink with soapy water, take things out in turn and sponge them, and place directly on the drying rack or directly towel them off. The thought of it now is quite unappealing, but I know it's standard practice back there, and my dad was an ex-medical-lab-technician and my mum a pharmacist.

Simon_S, the plates dry out, as does the sink. Then bugs die. If you're looking for bacteria farms, look to towels, sponges and cloths that remain wet.

And on the subject of hand-washing, at restaurants I will generally seek out the washroom and wash my hands before eating. I see few others do so - and then they reach for the bread basket...

[BadRabbit]

I just use a large expandable colander that sits across the top of my sink like the one below. I get to use my sink to wash my vegetables without worrying about the bad stuff contained therein. In addition, I can just leave them in there to drain afterwards.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Progressive-Collapsible-Over-the-Sink-Colander/9606033?sourceid=1500000000000003260370&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=9606033

[MelissaH]

My ex mother in law once put a raw head of cabbage straight on the sink floor to maker stuffed cabbage at my

house and I was nauseated and shocked, I made her throw that leaf away and I got a plate for her to put it on instead.

Does the stuffed cabbage not get thoroughly cooked after the leaves are prepped?

MelissaH

[Kouign Aman]

I gown and glove before entering the space designated 'kitchen'. I traded the stove for an autoclave.

[Karri]

I'm confused. If you wash plates in the sink and ultimately eat off them, surely that's worse than washing vegetables in the same sink and then cooking those vegetables?

Plates or clean plates do not offer the same medium for growth as say a leaf of lettuce. I am pretty sure people here are talking about salads and cold prepared items more than vegetables to be cooked. As there are very few bacteria that can survive long cooking times.

[Beebs]

I'm in Blether's camp for washing stuff in the sink - practice good, common-sense kitchen hygiene, but certainly not anything close to operation-room sterile.

I've got a dual sink, so one side I use mostly for washing veg or cleaning dishes that haven't been in contact with meat; everything else gets done in the other sink. Both sides get scrubbed down with cleaner like Lysol and rinsed thoroughly with hot water when I'm done at the end of the evening, to get rid of grease and crusties. If I'm filling the sink to wash salad greens, the sink gets a clean & rinse before. If the sink's been used for raw meat, it gets a clean & rinse right after prepping.

I figure there are more scary bugs and things down in the drain where I can't reach anyway, than hanging out in my stainless steel sink. I'm also more concerned about keeping my kitchen towels, sponges and cutting boards clean & dry.

[Anna N]

I gown and glove before entering the space designated 'kitchen'. I traded the stove for an autoclave.

And if I become as germ-obsessed as it seems some are then I will soon follow you! I grew up without a refrigerator, often without hot water, and I am still here. I just think things can go too far in the direction of reasonable sanitation in a home kitchen.

[nickrey]

I gown and glove before entering the space designated 'kitchen'. I traded the stove for an autoclave.

And if I become as germ-obsessed as it seems some are then I will soon follow you! I grew up without a refrigerator, often without hot water, and I am still here. I just think things can go too far in the direction of reasonable sanitation in a home kitchen.

Hear, hear.

And I think the advertisers and other people who purport to have miracle products that kill germs so you can "protect" your children are substantially responsible for this.

[annabelle]

I don't think those of us who use sanitizers on our sinks and counters (don't forget refrigerator and microwave door handles) are being "over the top." I've worked in hospital laboratories and we saw many cases of food poisonings, especially in the summer season. It's always alarming to me that people who won't have their children vacinated or get flu shots think nothing of buying and eating produce and produce from Farmer's Markets nor taking necessary precautions when preparing those food items. Just because some may have grown up when there were iceboxes and pump water (Hi, Mom and Dad!)doesn't mean that for all those who survived the bad old days didn't have friends or family who did not.

[Druckenbrodt]

Reading this thread, I can't help thinking of the story of the search for a vaccine for polio, and how researchers couldn't figure out why kids growing up in, literally, dirt poor neighborhoods were less vulnerable than middle class kids from homes that benefitted from modern sanitation; the rich kids had not had a chance to build up their immune systems in the same way.

A couple of years ago I came across this article in the New York Times which I have to say has reinforced my instinctive view on germs, although the idea of my kids running around with worms is not something that excites me! Anyway, I think this is a great piece to add to the discussions on this thread, if anyone has the time to read it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/health/27brod.html?scp=1&sq=germs%20food%20worms&st=cse

It's probably a coincidence but my three-year old, who never got a chance to eat dirt because I was 100% vigilant, is the asthmatic one who gets every bug going in the neighborhood, while my 15-month old, who eats dirt all the time because now with two hyperactive kids I'm only 20% vigilant - a recent 'highpoint' in her diet was discovering her eating dried out vomit in a playground, and apparently enjoying it judging from her grin - is the picture of health who's never caught a bug, never thrown up or had the shits.

It never even occurred to me to be worried about germs in my kitchen sink. It always gets washed out with warm soapy water. Admittedly we don't eat meat so that reduces some factors for worry. And if I have to clean dog turd off my kids' shoes I'll use bleach on the sink afterwards, and I have a special scrubbing brush that's hidden away out of reach for such chores.

Frankly I'm much more concerned about pesticides, artificial fertilizers and other chemicals and their potential for harm. One of the many reasons why I have reluctantly joined my partner in his vegetarian ways is the thought of all the crap they feed and inject industrially farmed animals with - quite apart from the sadistic way in which they are also treated.

[Kouign Aman]

FWIW, I also serve meals in a laminar flow hood, so that airborne beasties dont land on it before its comsumed.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

KA, that's taking Molecular Gastronomy to a whole new level! Do you require your guests to use the glove hood, or are they allowed physical contact with the oh-so-dangerous contents of their (petri) dishes?

[Kouign Aman]

Guests are allowed to assess risk as they choose. Some of them live dangerously, using their fingers to pick up french fries and the like. I guess since THEY know where those fingers have been...

Try as I might, people still insist on picking produce off the vine/tree, rubbing it on their shirts, and eating it. One guest even pulled a carrot out of the dirt, washed it under the garden hose, and then noshed away.

Enough, I feel faint just thinking of it.

[lstrelau]

Try as I might, people still insist on picking produce off the vine/tree, rubbing it on their shirts, and eating it. One guest even pulled a carrot out of the dirt, washed it under the garden hose, and then noshed away.

I can appreciate your queasiness but all I can say is that I grew up on a farm (I am 56 now) and I could not count the number of times that I (and my 5 siblings and parents) pulled up carrots, radishes, new nugget potatoes etc and wiped the dirt off and noshed away. There is NOTHING like the taste of fresh produce. Granted, we knew what was put on said dirt (though Dad did apply well rotted manure every few years) and we never got sick from this. One of my sisters still gets teased about going to elementary school and proudly announcing to her class in show and tell that "my mother eats worms". What really happened was my mother (and the rest of us of course) picked and ate fresh raspberries off the bush all summer. One day my sister happened to LOOK at the raspberry before popping it in her mouth and saw a little worm. Mom said don't worry, that happens and ate it!

Fruits or produce grown in a commercial orchard might be another story with the increased use of pesticide sprays of course and that is a greater worry. I am not convinced that washing or even peeling will necessarily avoid absorbing some of these things.

Last night we had our annual treat of fresh morels stuffed with foie gras, finished with veal stock, cognac and a touch of heavy cream (OK, the calorie count may kill me)however, I did not wash them, did check them for obvious fauna but happily savoured them. If there was a little bit of extra protein included it didn't hurt me.

I have to agree with previous posters that we live in an over sanitized world where kids, especially, don't have well developed immune systems. Perhaps it is too late to go back to kids eating dirt - with over use of dissentfectants and antibiotic etc, the bad bugs have developed increased resistance and I am not sure we can reverse the situation entirely. But get over the paranoia.

Yes, food poisoning is out there, washing veg in a sink that just had raw chicken in it is plain stupid but I think common sense sanitary practices will go a long way to avoiding problems. But we should be just as careful with obsessive use of cleaning products and sanitizers.