"French Fry" as a verb

[Chris Hennes]

We're having quite a time over at The WikiGullet project working on the "French fries" article. One of the questions that has come up is whether "to French fry" is used as a general-purpose synonym for deep-frying. I've never seen this, but MaxH has, and sure enough, Merriam-Webster thinks it's used that way. So: who's seen this? Recently? Do you use it?

[gfweb]

Dictionaries seem to include whatever words that are in use whether or not they make sense or not. I like the French approach of having a ministry dedicated to preserving the language.

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[heidih]

I recall hearing it used eons ago when I was a kid. In my experience it has been eclipsed by the term "deep fried". Today I think french fried in the past tense refers to potatoes that were deep fried. Even its similar diner cousin onion rings are not referred to as french fried, but simply as onion rings.

[Chris Hennes]

The only constant in language is that it changes: a word means whatever it's used to mean. If people use "french fry" to mean "deep fry" I'm OK with that, I've just never heard of it. Perhaps it's an old usage that has fallen to the wayside?

[heidih]

As I said - eons ago when I was kid. I vote it is an all potato based reference now

[heidih]

But then a quick dictionary.com and it is a verb http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/french+fry

[Alex]

My impression -- and a quick Google search confirmed this -- is that deep-fried items other than potatoes are not uncommonly called "French fried," but only those of a similar shape, such as green beans or julienned carrots. Then, of course, there's French's French Fried Onions, but that's a different animal, er, vegetable.

[Dave the Cook]

Two points. First, as Alex points out, it's pretty easy to find the two words "French" and "fry" hanging out together, though usage has surely declined since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The issue is if the two together comprise a verb. That's tougher.

Second, I think you're going to find a generational divide over this. I recall "French-fry" being employed as a verb when I was a kid, as in a conversation like this:

"Why is Colonel Sanders' chicken so crispy?"

"They French-fry it."

That's something I can imagine my grandmother or parents saying (despite its inaccuracy) in, say, 1965. Today, someone saying "I French-fried the mushrooms" would likely draw an odd look from at least some folks at the table.

[Chris Hennes]

I wonder when the most recent occurrence of it was in a major publication (magazine, newspaper, book, etc.) Anecdotally it sounds from these few responses like it's a phrase that's falling out of favor but has not yet fallen out of the dictionary. Does anyone have enough Google-fu to track down its use? I get too many false-positives from the noun.

[gfweb]

I guess the question is should the wiki include common usage no matter how uneducated or crude. Many restaurant kitchens refer to a sauce as jiz; as on " needs more jiz on this plate ". Does that get an entry too?

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[jsmeeker]

hmmm.. I haven't really heard of people using it as a verb. I've probably heard "chicken fried" as a verb more often. I mean, who doesn't want some chicken fried chicken?

[Dave the Cook]

I guess the question is should the wiki include common usage no matter how uneducated or crude. Many restaurant kitchens refer to a sauce as jiz; as on " needs more jiz on this plate ". Does that get an entry too?

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Yes, and you should go write it now. Then we can have a pedantic argument (where would eG Forums be without them?) about whether it's spelled with one "z" or two!

[Andrew Fenton]

Google Ngram viewer is probably useful here. For example, looking at uses of "French fried" between 1900-2008, there's a steep decline starting in the 1990s. And "deep fried" has a corresponding rise in usage.

(N.B., this is a lazy man's approach, just eyeballin' it. But if it confirms the prejudices of this thread, it must be right!)

[MaxH]

Jeez, a whole thread. Personal opinions aside, this came up in a very narrow context: I just mentioned that "to French-fry" is a well-established idiom in the US, found in cookbooks and restaurants ("French-fried parsley" as a plate garnish for example I still run into, even tho I think the garnish itself is kind of ridiculous) and that the full-size printed American Heritage Dictionary (beloved among professional writers I know for various reasons including pragmatism, it lists meanings by currency rather than history and has other unusual information) defines a "French fry" as a deep-fried potato and to "French-fry" as [sic] "To fry (potato strips, for example) in deep fat."

Those are the sole meanings given for these two terms in both 3rd and 4th (2006) full-size print editions, both of which I have handy. In many business situations entailing nonfiction writing, that'd be fully the end of the issue and next question, please.

Offhand I'd say I probably have at least 100 US cookbooks using the term for things beyond potatoes. My claim was never that it competes with "deep-fry" or that "deep-fry" is somehow exceptionable or means only "French fry," rather that "French-fry" is well established in the US in the sense of deep fry. Quod erat demonstrandum.

It's also the kind of subject liable to present a distorted picture if you look into it just online, because online sources are so skewed toward self-selected and very recent content.

[Country]

I just got out (from the attic) my (deceased) grandmother's Boston Cooking-School Cook Book (1936) by Fannie Farmer. The index includes French Fried - Asparagus Tips, Cauliflower, Mushrooms (Allemande), Onions, Pepper Rings, and Potatoes.

Hmm. After looking at this some more, I should not put this book back in the attic.

[gfweb]

I guess the question is should the wiki include common usage no matter how uneducated or crude. Many restaurant kitchens refer to a sauce as jiz; as on " needs more jiz on this plate ". Does that get an entry too?

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Yes, and you should go write it now. Then we can have a pedantic argument (where would eG Forums be without them?) about whether it's spelled with one "z" or two!

Thanks, Dave.

[Mjx]

We're having quite a time over at The WikiGullet project working on the "French fries" article. One of the questions that has come up is whether "to French fry" is used as a general-purpose synonym for deep-frying. I've never seen this, but MaxH has, and sure enough, Merriam-Webster thinks it's used that way. So: who's seen this? Recently? Do you use it?

As both MaxH and ermintrude point out, the use of 'French fry' to mean 'deep fry' is essentially American, which may make it a source of confusion for those who aren't familiar with US English.

Using 'French fry' as a verb is ambiguous, and besides, it's no shorter than 'deep fry', so why use it as a synonym?

'Deep fry' is clear, widely understood, and won't be turned into 'freedom fry' by a bunch of dolts the next time France does something that aggravates.

[ermintrude]

In the UK I've only ever known "French fry" to be associated with fries or (as we in the UK would say chips) even though the Netherlands invented these, with current country boundaries this can now claimed by the Flemish portion of Belgium.

Cue huge argument but I'd say "French fry" in Europe is taken as an Americanism for frites (or in the UK Chips, American Chips are called crisps)

[ermintrude]

I guess the question is should the wiki include common usage no matter how uneducated or crude. Many restaurant kitchens refer to a sauce as jiz; as on " needs more jiz on this plate ". Does that get an entry too?

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Yes, and you should go write it now. Then we can have a pedantic argument (where would eG Forums be without them?) about whether it's spelled with one "z" or two!

Thanks, Dave.

I'm sure there is a premium price for that, in certain underground restaurants!

[Chris Hennes]

Using 'French fry' as a verb is ambiguous, and besides, it's no shorter than 'deep fry', so why use it as a synonym?

Well, again, I'm not arguing it makes sense: I'm trying to figure out if anyone still uses it. I've never heard it, nor seen it, except with reference to potatoes (that is, I've seen "french fried potatoes" used on rare occasion). I'd love to know if there has been a cookbook published in the last decade that uses the phrase as a general-purpose synonym for "deep fry." I mean, I'm all in favor of including it as a synonym for deep fry in the wiki, if anyone still uses it. If it's an anachronism, however, I'd relegate it to a "history" section at the end of the article.

[Mjx]

Well, again, I'm not arguing it makes sense: I'm trying to figure out if anyone still uses it. I've never heard it, nor seen it, except with reference to potatoes (that is, I've seen "french fried potatoes" used on rare occasion). I'd love to know if there has been a cookbook published in the last decade that uses the phrase as a general-purpose synonym for "deep fry." I mean, I'm all in favor of including it as a synonym for deep fry in the wiki, if anyone still uses it. If it's an anachronism, however, I'd relegate it to a "history" section at the end of the article.

Hm. I've never heard this use, but (in the US), I've seldom been out of NYC. It rings no bell in terms of something seen in a cookbook or culinary publication, either, but again, my experience is bound to be restricted.

Perhaps the best way to get a good regional/generational spread on this usage would be to put this out there as a naked topic question, with no background (which tends to suck picky grammarians like myself into tangents)?

[gfweb]

I guess the question is should the wiki include common usage no matter how uneducated or crude. Many restaurant kitchens refer to a sauce as jiz; as on " needs more jiz on this plate ". Does that get an entry too?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Yes, and you should go write it now. Then we can have a pedantic argument (where would eG Forums be without them?) about whether it's spelled with one "z" or two!

Thanks, Dave.

I'm sure there is a premium price for that, in certain underground restaurants!

Makes one think twice about foams.

[Andrew Fenton]

I'd love to know if there has been a cookbook published in the last decade that uses the phrase as a general-purpose synonym for "deep fry."

This is not difficult to find, searching "french fried" on Google Books and limiting the search to the 21st century: click. The first cookbook is "Northwoods Fish Cookery" (published 2000), which has a recipe for walleye crusted with 'French fried onions.'

[Chris Hennes]

Aha, fantastic! I wonder if it's regional, or if I just don't move in circles that use it.

[Dave the Cook]

I'm sure you can find "French fried" as a common adjective to this day. But "French fry" as a verb (which is the subject of the topic) is so rare as to be obsolete. Note that even in the recipe Andrew Fenton linked to, while the poorly worded title uses the former, in the recipe itself, "deep-fry" is used as the cooking instruction.