Why home-oven technology has failed to keep pace

[Fat Guy]

When I saw Nathan Myhrvold speak at a Modernist Cuisine event the other day, one point he made was that, with the exception of the addition of the microwave, the technology of home ovens has been basically unchanged for decades whereas in commercial settings they now have all sorts of ovens like the combi and the cvap.

Presumably most manufacturers are under the impression that home cooks would be slow to accept new technologies. But I have to wonder if that's true. Home cooks have historically embraced worthy new products. Maybe they'd embrace better ovens too.

[cbread]

I'm not optimistic about getting home cooks to try new things. I have had no luck persuading friends to use weight based measurement. I'd give my eye teeth to have accurate oven temperatures that don't rocket back and forth umpteen degrees. That's where I think the manufacturers could go next, simple accuracy. More quality too.

But I do like to dream... It would be the stuff of dreams to have a steam/combi oven, a rotovap, salamander, centrifuge...

Kitchen appliances marketed to the consumer are too often disappointing, poorly designed, poorly built, and unreliable. They appear aimed at the lowest common denominator.

[Mjx]

My first thought was 'What?', because I do the data entry for a company that arranges bids on home appliances, and all the big, middle-ground, industry leaders (Siemens, Miele, Electrolux, etc.) offer combi-ovens, steam units designed to be paired with standard convection ovens, and so on. Getting something like a salamander means installing it separately from the rest of the stovetop, but a couple of companies offer them.

But this is in Northern Europe.

In Italy, not much has changed since I was a kid, and in the US, that also seems to hold true. My guess is that some cultural tendency determines whether or not cutting edge technology shows up in a nation's kitchens.

cbread is probably right about getting most home cooks to try new things, but manufacturers in Northern European countries work around that, by simply discontinuing things (glass stovetops are now standard, and each year more of the models on offer are induction).

[Pierogi]

...

Kitchen appliances marketed to the consumer are too often disappointing, poorly designed, poorly built, and unreliable. They appear aimed at the lowest common denominator.

I'd guess probably as much as anything, its a matter of economics. The average consumer doesn't realize what a difference the sophisticated controls would make, and would balk at the difference in price between the standard, run-of-the-mill, wildly fluctuating oven and one that will hold a truer temp. Same deal with the steam/combi ovens. The average consumer (especially someone who's putting appliances in a rental unit) is going to look at the cost difference between a fancy-pants steam injected, convection electric oven with a gas cooktop and think...."well, yeah...but this Hotpoint is $400 less, and it's got an oven and 4 burners too".

[Jeffery C]

I think it comes down to demand in this country's markets. If the general public is happy with what they have been cooking with and buying for the better part of half a century, I dont think that any of the major appliance makers are going to change their production line to teach us how to cook better. Unlike sports cars & luxury automobiles, the majority of the buying public is not looking for the latest technology or trending form of culinary preparation.

At least not yet.

One of the biggest jumps home cooks have made in the last 40 years has been the microwave oven. It was marketed as a convenience product by providing meals with quicker cooking times. However as we found out they were inefficient cookers but did provide a quick way to reheat a meal that was prepared "conventionally" and pop corn. It did not deliver, at least by itself.

Now we have new "turbo" ovens and convection/microwave technologies that are finally delivering what the 70's microwave ovens promised. These new ovens provide us with crunchy crusted baked bread, beautifully browned roasts, and crispy chewie cookies in less time and with less heat wasted radiating into the kitchen and home.

We are also experiencing a renaissance of sorts with the circulated bath type of cooking and the expanded use of CVAP technology originally invented for the Colonel to help keep his fried chicken hot. These methods of cooking provide fantastic results and are very effective at getting heat into the food.

I think as costs of energy continue to rise and the need for a more efficient way of getting heat into food increases, we will see a boom in kitchen changes, a veritable metamorphosis! Gone will be the double ovens found in some homes replaced with a convection/micro on bottom, and a CVAP on top. The double sink will have one compartment that will also serve as an immersion circulation tank. People will have chamber vacuums built into their counter tops with the lid acting as a counter so as not to waste space. I know I might be dreaming my fantasy kitchen, but I think it is not to far fetched

[Fat Guy]

The average consumer (especially someone who's putting appliances in a rental unit) is going to look at the cost difference between a fancy-pants steam injected, convection electric oven with a gas cooktop and think...."well, yeah...but this Hotpoint is $400 less, and it's got an oven and 4 burners too".

The average consumer, maybe. But there is a huge luxury market in North America. For what a Sub-Zero refrigerator or Wolf pro-style range costs, it should be possible to mass produce a home version of just about anything.

[HungryC]

Does Northern Europe have better appliance service than N America? We're a big ol spread-out country, and I know that getting Miele, etc serviced outside of major metropolitan areas is downright impossible. So rural/suburban buyers tend to steer away from hard-to-service brands.

[Fat Guy]

I don't know about rural buyers, but I can say from first-hand experience that plenty of suburban buyers purchase premium European appliances.

I'd love to learn more about these next-generation European appliances. A lot of US kitchens are wired for 220, so with a little effort it may be possible to use some of them here.

[JBailey]

There are some of us who tend toward commercial in our home appliances. From experirence, it is not merely a matter of being wired for 220. A Rational combi oven requires 3 phase electric service - read industrial or business scale and that is both difficult to install and requires the cooperation of the local electric company. Three-wire, 120/240 volt single phase power, as I have read and according to my electrician, is used in the United States and Canada. This type of wiring is sometimes incorrectly called "two-phase".

Further, many appliances one finds in a restaurant store require NEMA-5 outlets. One of the plug blades is horizontal and the other is vertical, plus the ground. As a consumer, I cannot explain the difference between these and regular 120 type plugs, but it has something to do with the number of amps used by the device. I understand that dedicated 120 sockets installed as NEMA are the safest when running this type of plug.

[Paul Kierstead]

[

The average consumer, maybe. But there is a huge luxury market in North America. For what a Sub-Zero refrigerator or Wolf pro-style range costs, it should be possible to mass produce a home version of just about anything.

Unfortunately it seems that the vast majority of 'luxury' appliances relate to materials and look, not function, at least in my observation. I've been looking for a fridge with better interior; of the zillion I've looked at, high and low, the interiors are all almost identical. I think only a Miele had a significantly better interior.

There is no excuse for electric ovens fluctuating wildly. It would take *very* few dollars of electronics, especially in quantity, to PID the oven and make it extremely steady. Gas is a little tricker, since you can't imply pulse modulate the output, but could almost certainly be done for not much more. Steam, etc of course would add to the cost, but there are plenty of $5000 ranges sold.

[dcarch]

There are some of us who tend toward commercial in our home appliances. From experirence, it is not merely a matter of being wired for 220. A Rational combi oven requires 3 phase electric service - read industrial or business scale and that is both difficult to install and requires the cooperation of the local electric company. Three-wire, 120/240 volt single phase power, as I have read and according to my electrician, is used in the United States and Canada. This type of wiring is sometimes incorrectly called "two-phase".

Further, many appliances one finds in a restaurant store require NEMA-5 outlets. One of the plug blades is horizontal and the other is vertical, plus the ground. As a consumer, I cannot explain the difference between these and regular 120 type plugs, but it has something to do with the number of amps used by the device. I understand that dedicated 120 sockets installed as NEMA are the safest when running this type of plug.

There is no reason why normal 110vac/220vac cannot be used for any properly designed home appliance. It shouldn't take significantly more BTUs to cook a chicken evenly by any method.

dcarch

[JHeald]

I would suspect that the indifference to better ovens comes, in combination with economics and fear of the unknown and/or new, is simply knowledge. When a consumer looks at two ovens, they certainly compare features and price. While they certainly understand the price difference, they might not understand the difference in features. "So it's steam injected, how does that help me?". Additionally, marketing and in-store availability probably plays a big role too. Walk into an appliance store, and the large majority (or perhaps all) of the stoves that you see are conventional. The public awareness of quality cookware beyond All-Clad is probably a good analogy to this: I had no idea brands like Sitram and Paderno existed until I read about them here. There is simply no public advertising for them like there is for All-Clad, Calphalon, etc.

I would also suspect that many consumers are not aware of how poorly home ovens actually perform: in my first apartment it took me months to realize that my oven was not heating properly, only to find out that it was 50 degrees too cool! And I understood how ovens work. Lastly, I would suspect that, while there is a wonderful trend in updating and building top-of-the-line kitchens, not enough Americans use their kitchen to justify spending even more money on appliances. Brand name and stainless steel are enough for the facade-consumed consumer.

[Mjx]

Does Northern Europe have better appliance service than N America? We're a big ol spread-out country, and I know that getting Miele, etc serviced outside of major metropolitan areas is downright impossible. So rural/suburban buyers tend to steer away from hard-to-service brands.

The US is huge, and I know this complicates things, and unfortunately, a lot of standard EU brands (e.g. Miele) are marketed as luxury brands in the US. In Denmark, everything comes with a 2-year guarantee, so service is reasonably good. I believe a number of other EU countries have similar guarantee/service arrangements. I have a hunch that the costs and issues related to purchasing and servicing units from EU countries have more to do with the natural desire to protect US economic interests, than anything else.

Miele is an okay brand, but if you're going to spend the extra dollars, anyway, I'd recommend looking at Gaggenau units, which are built really solidly. We have have one of their stovetops and one of their ovens, and neither has diappointed yet. If we hadn't been able to get the Gaggenau appliances at a reasonable price, we would have gone with Miele, which is pretty reliable. Siemens units aren't bad, but can feel a little chintzy.

. . . .

I'd love to learn more about these next-generation European appliances. A lot of US kitchens are wired for 220, so with a little effort it may be possible to use some of them here.

http://www.gaggenau.com/change-country.do

http://www.miele.com/international/enint/home.htm

There are plenty more, these are simply the ones I know best.

[dcarch]

"------Lastly, I would suspect that, while there is a wonderful trend in updating and building top-of-the-line kitchens, not enough Americans use their kitchen to justify spending even more money on appliances. Brand name and stainless steel are enough for the facade-consumed consumer. "

People who can afford fancy kitchens mostly eat out.

dcarch

[Mjx]

. . . .

People who can afford fancy kitchens mostly eat out.

dcarch

This thought crossed my mind, but I assumed I was being needlessly cynical.

I'd add that many of those I know who do have state-of-the-art/luxury kitchens wouldn't dream of soiling them (or the adjacent living room, since these are often open-plan kitchens) with anything as messy as cooking. The crusty interior of our 'fancy' Gaggenau oven (I have this irrational fear of setting fire to our kitchen if I use the self-clean mode, and the deposits have resisted every available chemical oven cleaner) is an unending source of horror to certain friends, who treat kitchen appliances as collectible items.

[Fat Guy]

Like a lot of stereotypes, that one is demonstrably false. I personally know many, many excellent cooks who can and do purchase high-end kitchen appliances. I certainly have seen a few "show kitchens," belonging to rich people who see a Viking range as a fashion accessory, but that is not the norm. The other thing to bear in mind is that high-end appliance manufacturers owe a significant portion of their revenue streams to housing developers. When people buy into new developments, much of the time they buy pre-equipped kitchens. Developers know that expensive kitchen appliances increase perceived value, so they often spend more on the kitchen than the actual human purchasers would. I know this to be true after looking at hundreds of pieces of real estate over the past three years. Indeed, I may soon be the recipient of such a kitchen.

[Mjx]

Like a lot of stereotypes, that one is demonstrably false. I personally know many, many excellent cooks who can and do purchase high-end kitchen appliances. I certainly have seen a few "show kitchens," belonging to rich people who see a Viking range as a fashion accessory, but that is not the norm. The other thing to bear in mind is that high-end appliance manufacturers owe a significant portion of their revenue streams to housing developers. When people buy into new developments, much of the time they buy pre-equipped kitchens. Developers know that expensive kitchen appliances increase perceived value, so they often spend more on the kitchen than the actual human purchasers would. I know this to be true after looking at hundreds of pieces of real estate over the past three years. Indeed, I may soon be the recipient of such a kitchen.

It may have to do with the group of people I know (I'm not claiming it to be a representative sample, by any means, but it runs to several dozen people), but the ones with the nicest kitchens freak over the idea of anyone wanting to do something more elaborate than slice bread or make a cup of coffee (this may change dramatically, once they have children). Our kitchen is nice, as far as appliances go, but can get a little gnarly, since we use it heavily (so, we are considered rather eccentric).

[Marlene]

"------Lastly, I would suspect that, while there is a wonderful trend in updating and building top-of-the-line kitchens, not enough Americans use their kitchen to justify spending even more money on appliances. Brand name and stainless steel are enough for the facade-consumed consumer. "

People who can afford fancy kitchens mostly eat out.

dcarch

I recently spent time in Calgary looking at houses. I saw 85 houses personally and looked at several more online. Viking professional ranges seemed to be the appliance of choice in 85% of these homes. There were a few Dacors and some electroluxes, but the majority were Viking Pro. The majority of these were not new homes. The appliance of choice in the new subdivisions seemed to be Electrolux. On the other hand, it didn't seem to matter whether one went out to dinner on a Monday or a Friday. All the restaurants we went to, were doing a booming business, leading me to ask the same question. Does anybody in Calgary actually cook or do their kitchens just look good?

This thought crossed my mind, but I assumed I was being needlessly cynical.

I'd add that many of those I know who do have state-of-the-art/luxury kitchens wouldn't dream of soiling them (or the adjacent living room, since these are often open-plan kitchens) with anything as messy as cooking. The crusty interior of our 'fancy' Gaggenau oven (I have this irrational fear of setting fire to our kitchen if I use the self-clean mode, and the deposits have resisted every available chemical oven cleaner) is an unending source of horror to certain friends, who treat kitchen appliances as collectible items.

Every single kitchen in Calgary is open plan, including the house I bought. I hadn't really thought about it before because I've never owned an open planned kitchen/living room but I can imagine it might stop some from using their kitchens much especially if you've guests in the living room, 2 feet away from your kitchen island. On the other hand, I think I'm going to like the open plan because I can talk to my guests more easily because they are right there and I don't have to duck in and out of the kitchen. And there's a kick ass range hood so that should take care of most issues.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Marlene (log)

[HungryC]

I don't know about rural buyers, but I can say from first-hand experience that plenty of suburban buyers purchase premium European appliances.

I'd love to learn more about these next-generation European appliances. A lot of US kitchens are wired for 220, so with a little effort it may be possible to use some of them here.

Yes, but you're talking about the suburbs of a major metro area. Try 15-20 miles outside a second tier Sunbelt city (which is a huge swath of the US population these days), and Euro appliance servicing is nonexistent. Many people I know can't get a decent Viking service guy, much less Miele.

[Mjx]

. . . . Try 15-20 miles outside a second tier Sunbelt city (which is a huge swath of the US population these days), and Euro appliance servicing is nonexistent. Many people I know can't get a decent Viking service guy, much less Miele.

Minor detail, but Viking is a US company, so getting service shouldn't be a huge deal.

[Moopheus]

Like a lot of stereotypes, that one is demonstrably false. I personally know many, many excellent cooks who can and do purchase high-end kitchen appliances. ... The other thing to bear in mind is that high-end appliance manufacturers owe a significant portion of their revenue streams to housing developers. ... Developers know that expensive kitchen appliances increase perceived value, so they often spend more on the kitchen than the actual human purchasers would.

These two observations would seem to contradict each other--your circle of friends and acquaintances probably contains a far greater proportion of "serious" cooks than a developer's customer base. The developer does not care if the buyer wants to cook, the developer only cares that the buyer can afford luxury products. And the buyer cares about being seen to be able to afford these things. The developer is putting these things into ALL of their units, and they're clearly not going to limit their sales efforts to serious cooks.

The appliance industry has successfully pushed the idea that "stainless steel" means "professional" and "luxury." They continue to push features that they can sell as speed and convenience, not so much for using advanced cooking techniques. (During the construction boom, some industry watchers came up with the term "pergraniteel" to describe the generic pergo-granite-steel kitchen that was de rigeur. As in "that McMansion has a pergraniteel kitchen.")

The kitchen in our new house came equipped with a 15-year-old Wolf (in black enamel!) with no fancy features of any kind. It's great. If there were anything else I wish it could do it would be to go to 800 degrees, and have steam injectors. Sadly, I can't afford to replace it with a new one; I've checked the prices. They're just crazy.

[BadRabbit]

There is no excuse for electric ovens fluctuating wildly. It would take *very* few dollars of electronics, especially in quantity, to PID the oven and make it extremely steady. Gas is a little tricker, since you can't imply pulse modulate the output, but could almost certainly be done for not much more.

I was thinking the same thing. I made an immersion circulator at home and the PID cost me $35. Who wouldn't pay an extra $50 for a really accurate and steady oven? My only concern with a plug and play PID is that they usually take too long to regain temperature after drastic changes in system temp (like the one caused when you open an oven door). Still, this is likely just a simple programming change.

They make PID controllers for gas though the algorithm is different and they require special actuators.

Edited for spelling

Edited March 29, 2011 by BadRabbit (log)

[Florida]

I would say price and return on investment. Is the end product really so much better that it would justify the purchase of one of these new ovens? I doubt it. Furthermore, I suspect most high end consumers are purchasing form over function.

Let’s face it, this is America. If there was a market for these ovens, there would be someone selling them. I simply can’t imagine Hobart or Viking (or whomever) hasn’t researched the viability of such products in the marketplace.

[dcarch]

Do you remember, "Set-It-And-Forget-It" rotisserie oven?

Ergonomics.

Any cheap microwave nowadays has many preprogrammed features. When was the last time you go thru them all? I consider myself very tech savvy, yet I only use the timer and the power setting. Too much trouble to read and use all the other features.

The reason the Showtime rotisserie sells a lot is because it is simple to use.

With a sophisticated multi-featured cooking appliance with all kinds of cooking options may not be what the public wants.

dcarch

Edited March 29, 2011 by dcarch (log)

[emannths]

Another obstacle to humidity control: plumbing. I guess people probably rip up cabinets and countertops to put appliances in, but still, plumbing can be a PITA.

Oh, and another reason: MC may be the first book publication with any consumer audience outside of bread baking that even mentions humidity control. With no books saying "use it for this," it's really hard for anyone to have any idea why they'd care. This leaves it up to the sales literature and salespeople, and "more control" is a lot harder to sell that "faster" (i.e., as in microwave or convection ovens). It's certainly the first time I've considered humidity outside of steaming or the "huh--that's a lot of steam!" when I peek on a tray of potatoes or squash roasting in the oven.

People are used to doing everything the CVAP claims to do: "thaw, poach, braise, steam, roast..." They just don't do it all in their ovens. Or they rig up a contraption to create the desired level of humidity within their conventional oven. We need to be told not what these oven can do, but how they can do it better than what we're doing now.