Battle of the beef sandwiches

[JAZ]

This morning, NPR's "Wait-Wait" blog featured the iconic Italian beef sandwich from Chicago. It got me thinking about different styles of beef sandwiches -- ones I've tried and ones I've only heard of -- and which style is the best.

I've had an Italian beef from one of the big names in Chicago. It was pretty good. I've also had what I'm told is a relatively authentic version of a Philly cheese steak, although it was not from Philadelphia. It was also pretty good. The diner style of an open-faced roast beef sandwich with gravy should probably be considered, as well. I've heard of beef on weck, but I have no idea what exactly that is.

My choice for best beef sandwich is the French Dip. It's minimalist and lets you concentrate on the beef. Unlike the diner style, it can be eaten without a fork and knife.

Am I missing any iconic beef sandwich variations? Should I seek out beef on weck? Can someone tell me what that is?

[Fat Guy]

It's probably necessary to include Arby's in the discussion. Also, many steakhouses offer a sliced-steak sandwich.

If the meatballs are made of beef, does a meatball sandwich count? I guess that opens the door to other beef-derived things like pastrami, corned beef, or even a hamburger. Probably not useful to include all those.

[abooja]

I guess that opens the door to other beef-derived things like pastrami, corned beef, or even a hamburger. Probably not useful to include all those.

I'm confused as to how pastrami and corned beef might not qualify as actual beef sandwiches.

[syoung68]

The New Orleans roast beef po-boy (or poor boy depending on your camp) is must to include. I am certainly a little biased, but I think it beats the philly and the chicago.

On the subject of Arby's, having lived in New England for 7 years the beef joints up there put Arby's and the like to shame. The original Kelly's on the beach in Revere, MA., Nick's in Beverly, any of the Bill and Bob's, and countless other places all have that perfectly rare beef on a bun with a thin tangy BBQ sauce. I can eat like 5 of them.

It is funny, that those beef sandwiches are one of things that I most miss from living in MA. and a roast beef po-boy was the one thing I would have killed for when I was there.

[syoung68]

I guess that opens the door to other beef-derived things like pastrami, corned beef, or even a hamburger. Probably not useful to include all those.

I'm confused as to how pastrami and corned beef might not qualify as actual beef sandwiches.

I can't speak for JAZ, but I think the original intent was a "beef sandwich" thin sliced on bread with accompaniments. Otherwise we get into BBQ, any deli sandwich, etc. Yes, pastrami and corned beef, are beef, but I would not though a Reuben on this list. I do not think of pastrami on rye (as much as I love it) when I think of beef.

That being said, I think it would smart to include a pit beef sandwich from Baltimore. I do not really consider that BBQ, even though many in MD. do.

[lancastermike]

This morning, NPR's "Wait-Wait" blog featured the iconic Italian beef sandwich from Chicago. It got me thinking about different styles of beef sandwiches -- ones I've tried and ones I've only heard of -- and which style is the best.

I've had an Italian beef from one of the big names in Chicago. It was pretty good. I've also had what I'm told is a relatively authentic version of a Philly cheese steak, although it was not from Philadelphia. It was also pretty good. The diner style of an open-faced roast beef sandwich with gravy should probably be considered, as well. I've heard of beef on weck, but I have no idea what exactly that is.

My choice for best beef sandwich is the French Dip. It's minimalist and lets you concentrate on the beef. Unlike the diner style, it can be eaten without a fork and knife.

Am I missing any iconic beef sandwich variations? Should I seek out beef on weck? Can someone tell me what that is?

With no disrespect intended, if you had a cheesesteak any place other than Philadelphia, you did not have the real thing. Please refer to the Holly Moore Corollary of cheesesteaks: The further you go from 9th and Passyunk, the chance of a good cheesesteak drops in direct proportion.

[syoung68]

With no disrespect intended, if you had a cheesesteak any place other than Philadelphia, you did not have the real thing. Please refer to the Holly Moore Corollary of cheesesteaks: The further you go from 9th and Passyunk, the chance of a good cheesesteak drops in direct proportion.

I have had a cheesesteak in Philly (wiz with), in fact I have done the Geno's v Pat's one evening. Yeah, that's right one from each. I am in the Pat camp. I have also had from other places around town. I have to tell you, you can get a decent Philly outside of PA. It is rare, but it happens.

I think it is MUCH harder getting a Chicago beef out side of Chicago, and it is INFINITELY harder to get a great roast beef po-boy out side of New Orleans. The hard part about the po-boy is the bread. I have NEVER found real po-boy bread outside if New Orleans. The Leidenheimer baking company makes the best. It is light and airy with a perfectly crispy crust. In fact, it took them a while to get back up and running post Katrina and the po-boys around town were not the same.

[Holly Moore]

The Arby's 69 cent roast beef sandwich, before the comminuted beef roll, was a great roast beef sandwich and possibly the best chain fast food product of all time.

As a kid, there was a pizza place in Denville NJ that built a sub using rare roast beef - the beef was roasted in the pizza oven. Nowadays I have had no luck finding a hoagie shop, sub place or deli that roasts its own beef to a bloody rare/medium rare.

When I was in college I spent way too much time at a bar called the Box Car which served rare roast beef sandwiches on a kaiser roll with the option of horseradish. It was based on Buffalo's Beef on Weck with a less salty roll. Rare roast beef on a good roll, topped with horseradish and washed down with a cold Budweiser - as good as it gets in the roast beef sandwich category.

More ancient history - the Stockyard Inn in the Chicago Stockyards used to serve a prime rib sandwich at lunch times. Those in the know ordered an end cut, which was still cooked rare. Perfect.

Almost as good - Nick's at 20th and Jackson in Philadelphia hand carves roast beef to order, alas medium done, dips the kaiser roll bun in au jus and serves the sandwich topped with aged provolone.

the Holly Moore Corollary of cheesesteaks: The further you go from 9th and Passyunk, the chance of a good cheesesteak drops in direct proportion.

Cool that I have a corollary.

[Jon Savage]

For me it is the French Dip either from Cole's or Philippe's; both in L.A. they both also claim to have invented the french dip sandwich.

I like them both but have a slight preference for Cole's because the bar there is lovingly restored and evokes 1030's Los Angeles to me.

Edited February 8, 2011 by 6ppc (log)

[Carlovski]

The sadly now closed Deli near my work used to do excellent roast beef sandwiches (very good horseradish sauce too).

I remember one conversation with the owner (who was an ex chef)

- Do you like your beef quite rare?

- Yep, rarer the better for me.

- Good, because I think this one might still be moving!

It wasn't raw - just properly rare to a level you rarely get from commercial places. Fine quality beef too.

[JAZ]

With no disrespect intended, if you had a cheesesteak any place other than Philadelphia, you did not have the real thing.

I have had a cheesesteak in Philly (wiz with), in fact I have done the Geno's v Pat's one evening. Yeah, that's right one from each. I am in the Pat camp. I have also had from other places around town. I have to tell you, you can get a decent Philly outside of PA. It is rare, but it happens.

I think it is MUCH harder getting a Chicago beef out side of Chicago, and it is INFINITELY harder to get a great roast beef po-boy out side of New Orleans. The hard part about the po-boy is the bread. I have NEVER found real po-boy bread outside if New Orleans. The Leidenheimer baking company makes the best. It is light and airy with a perfectly crispy crust. In fact, it took them a while to get back up and running post Katrina and the po-boys around town were not the same.

I'm willing to concede that I haven't had the best (or most authentic, or whatever) Philly cheese steak, but it seems to me that syoung is onto something. If there's an ingredient in a sandwich that's impossible to find outside the original locale, then I'll concede that you have to be in that place to get an excellent version of that sandwich. So, I agree about the po'boys. Is there something in cheese steaks that put them in that category?

(Incidentally, I'm excluding pastrami and corned beef, meatballs and burgers from this discussion. I think the base filling has to be unaltered roast beef to qualify.)

[Holly Moore]

If there's an ingredient in a sandwich that's impossible to find outside the original locale, then I'll concede that you have to be in that place to get an excellent version of that sandwich. So, I agree about the po'boys. Is there something in cheese steaks that put them in that category?

Attitude.

Along with distance from 9th and Passyunk, another red flag is the modifier "Philly" in front of "cheesesteak." Also, if like the NY Times recently did, the sandwich name is sub divided into "cheese steak."

[gfweb]

Attitude and the roll. The rolls outside of the Wilmington-Philly axis are just not right. Including Amoroso's which isn't dense enough or anywhere near crusty enough.

Exactly right, Holly. If prefixed "Philly"...it ain't.

[ChrisOC]

There is a place called Ye Olde Ale Houseon Germantown Pike in Lafayette Hill Pa where they serve hand carved roast beef sandwiches. The carver slices your beef, dips it in the au jus, and stacks it on a kaiser roll. On the table there is a little crock of some of the hottest horseradish I've ever had.. One of the best sandwiches I have ever eaten. Unfortunately, since I moved to Jersey, I don't get to go there much.

[gfweb]

Ahhhh. The Ale House. I grew up 2 blocks away and spent many a night in there. You are right. Great "wet beef" sandwich.

[Mjx]

If it's done right, I don't think it's possible to top the diner-style, hot open roast-beef sandwich with gravy. It's one of my favourite things, and I've been hunting high and low for a place that can still pull this off. The bread has to be robust enough to stand up to the juices, without being too tough to cut through, and the roast beef has to be the best sort, not something that has been downgraded to 'okay on a sandwich if concealed by a tsunami of gravy'. And the gravy? I think jus is best, but a dark gravy that's not starchy or coloured with caramel can be pretty good, too.

'Beef on weck' seems to be beef on a special sort of roll called a kümmelweck.

[lancastermike]

If there's an ingredient in a sandwich that's impossible to find outside the original locale, then I'll concede that you have to be in that place to get an excellent version of that sandwich. So, I agree about the po'boys. Is there something in cheese steaks that put them in that category?

Attitude.

Along with distance from 9th and Passyunk, another red flag is the modifier "Philly" in front of "cheesesteak." Also, if like the NY Times recently did, the sandwich name is sub divided into "cheese steak."

There ya go! 100% spot on from Holly

[syoung68]

Attitude and the roll. The rolls outside of the Wilmington-Philly axis are just not right. Including Amoroso's which isn't dense enough or anywhere near crusty enough.

Exactly right, Holly. If prefixed "Philly"...it ain't.

Come on guys, attitude is not an ingredient. At least with Italian beef, the Giardiniera is pretty proprietary. An while I cringe when I see anything that is "New Orleans' Style", a cheesesteak outside of Philly is a Philly Cheesesteak. Yes they are better in Philiadelphia, but you can get a decent one (not great) elsewhere. I am not talking about the one they serve at Applebees, but a joint that actually grills the beef to order and does not simply dump it out of a bag onto a bun. There are a ton of places in and around New Orleans that serve a "Philly CheeseSteak" and most are not worth eating. But there is a place on the west bank of the Mississippi river, in a really crappy strip mall, named... Philly's Steakhouse ... I know, I know, but they put our a really good product.

I am sure that someone, somewhere outside of southeast Louisiana is making a decent roast beef po-boy, but I bet they are shipping in the bread.

[Holly Moore]

Yo syoung68! If you don't think South Philly 'tude is proprietary, you ain't been in South Philadelphia.

[vice]

Out here along the Central Coast, tri tip sandwiches are the thing. The specimen at Cold Spring Tavern is particularly fine, though I haven't fully explored the northern counties for other serious contenders.

[syoung68]

Yo syoung68! If you don't think South Philly 'tude is proprietary, you ain't been in South Philadelphia.

I am literally Laughing Out Loud. I have been to South Philly, and I stand corrected. Main line, it ain't.

[IndyRob]

It's probably necessary to include Arby's in the discussion. Also, many steakhouses offer a sliced-steak sandwich.

Alas, my challenger for Arby's is nearly extinct. Rax is down to a single restaurant in a few midwestern states. And to add insult to injury two closed Rax Roast Beef stores I knew of were razed and replaced with Arbys. The Rax roast beef product is very similar to Arby's. But while still sliced paper thin like Arby's, it somehow retains it's juicyness.

In the unlimited division, while I favor the French Dip, I feel as though there's still room for a better new idea. It may involve mushrooms, and gruyere and a baguette. A restaurant near me had a very good steak and cheese sandwich, but it's really a one-off preparation where the bread played a large role - perhaps more than the beef.

Pastrami would be right up there, but I agree that it doesn't really fit the spirit of 'beef sandwich' any more than a salami sandwich. These kind of transcend the 'beef' label.

[suzilightning]

i just made some south jersey italian beef sandwiches for super bowl. really good meat but not rare.

beef on weck - ahhhhhh.....

i went to school in fredonia, ny just a mere 60 miles south of buffalo. in that 60 miles the style changes but the main thing is the kummelweck roll, something you can't get any further east than syracuse - unless you know me since i make my own 'weck. kummelweck includes mashed potato, potato water and caraway. they are topped with more of the caraway and bakers salt so you taste it like crazy.

buffalo style is like a french dip and served warm, fredonia style is cold with thinly sliced rare beef, thinly sliced swiss, shredded lettuce, thinly sliced tomatoes and 1000 island dressing.

actually i'm making a set of weck this weekend - let me have your snail mail address and i can get a few rolls to you in two days.

[rlibkind]

Brisket should be on the list. At the Rrading Terminal Market we've got two entries across Center Court from one another.

Tommy DiNic's is best known for roast pork, but he makes a tasty ever-so-slightly Italian flavored brisket.

Then there's Herschel's, which makes an excellent Jewish style brisket. I always ask for a fatty cut, just as I do for thr house-cured pastrami.

Both stalls use whole briskets, not points or first cuts. Way to go!

[Chris Hennes]

Tommy DiNic's is best known for roast pork, but he makes a tasty ever-so-slightly Italian flavored brisket.

Agreed: though it's hard to convince yourself to order one with that roast pork on the menu, it's definitely worth the occasional hit.