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Chris Amirault

Pressure Cookers: 2011 and beyond

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Alas, I did not time how long it took to gain high pressure, nor how long it took for the pressure indicator to completely recede. However, it did take 13 min. until there was NO pressure in the pot. (I was allowing the extra time because the chickpeas were 4 yrs. old.)

The lid is marked US, and the manufacturing date is 1013 (10th week of 2013).

The next time I use it, I will time both how long to gain and lose pressure. I have been timing it so the white ring shows completely.

[i think you meant "we can safely deduce that the over-pressure release will be 2-7psi MORE than the operating pressure.]?

p.s. - Your HipPressure website timings for risotto and soft-boiled eggs are spot-on.


Monterey Bay area

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FWIW, I got the 6-quart Presto a year ago. No spring valve, no nice gauge, and you have to deal with optimizing the jiggle. And I love it. Pretty much everything I've made in it has turned out perfectly, and the timings are right on.

And probably 1/4 the price...

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[i think you meant "we can safely deduce that the over-pressure release will be 2-7psi MORE than the operating pressure.]?

It was getting late in the day for me and my mild dyslexia made that sentence look perfect before I hit "post". Yes, that is what I meant - thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify!

Ciao,

L


hip pressure cooking - making pressure cooking hip, one recipe at a time!

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Take note if you purchase your Fissler from Amazon...

I contacted Fissler via their US website to inquire about their warranty, and specifically to verify an Amazon review I came across. Here is their reply:

Thank you for your response.

The Vitaquick has a limited lifetime warranty....

However, the vendor of Amazon, [xxxxx] does not seem to be an authorized dealer.

Please check our website www.fisslerusa.com and to go the Where to Buy tab for a list of authorized dealers.

If products are purchased from an unauthorized dealer, the warranty is not valid.

I don't know if other manufacturers (Kuhn Rikon, etc.) have the same policy.


Monterey Bay area

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Take note if you purchase your Fissler from Amazon...

I contacted Fissler via their US website to inquire about their warranty, and specifically to verify an Amazon review I came across. Here is their reply:

Thank you for your response.

The Vitaquick has a limited lifetime warranty....

However, the vendor of Amazon, [xxxxx] does not seem to be an authorized dealer.

Please check our website www.fisslerusa.com and to go the Where to Buy tab for a list of authorized dealers.

If products are purchased from an unauthorized dealer, the warranty is not valid.

I don't know if other manufacturers (Kuhn Rikon, etc.) have the same policy.

To my knowledge Amazon never sells Fissler pressure cookers. The Fissler pressure cookers listed on Amazon state who sells them. In the case of the Fissler I purchased on Amazon the dealer was Eurostoves. (Edit: I see Eurostoves is indeed listed as a Fissler dealer on the Fissler website.)

In contrast Kuhn Rikon pressure cookers are sold by Amazon.

My 13 minute chickpeas are cooling in the pot as we speak.


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

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To clarify: Amazon does not sell Fissler directly (Amazon is not an authorized reseller). Instead, 3rd party vendors sell Fisslers through Amazon, and Amazon provides fulfillment for some of them. My point is that many of the vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, therefore no warranty.


Monterey Bay area

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I was ready to return the Fissler, but decided to first try Laura's test:

- 1 C. chickpeas (purchased '09), soaked 8 hrs.

- 4 C. water; cooked at high pressure, 13 min.

- natural release, 13 min.

- result: ceci's were intact; texture was creamy soft, like a baked potato; overcooked?

- about 3 C. liquid left over

Anyone else tried this test?

To my taste the 13 minute chickpeas are over cooked. Great flavor though. There were maybe some differences between our two tests.

My chickpeas (Goya brand) were purchased yesterday.

The chickpeas were soaked in unsalted water about 18 hours. I had hoped to have the soak time closer to 8 hours, but one has to make ice cream when one can.

I followed the advice of Modernist Cuisine to vent for about 30 seconds at pressure to expel remaining air, to allow the pot to reach full temperature. In other words even if a pot is at 15 PSI pressure and there is any air inside, the temperature will never reach 250 deg F.

I believe I measured the 13 minute cooking time accurately by my watch. However I did not time the natural release as carefully (for one thing, I was responding to your post above). My release time was about 13 or 14 minutes.

Now I have to decide how to cook the other half of the chickpeas. I certainly don't want to go to 22 minutes!

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To clarify: Amazon does not sell Fissler directly (Amazon is not an authorized reseller). Instead, 3rd party vendors sell Fisslers through Amazon, and Amazon provides fulfillment for some of them. My point is that many of the vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, therefore no warranty.

Sorry I misunderstood. You might want to contact Amazon if your dealer was not authorized.

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Well, I am quite puzzled. Even an 11psi InstantPot gives almost al-dente chickpeas at 13 minutes. It APPEARS that you may not have to make time adjustments with your Vitaquick - for some reason. But now you know if anything comes out under-done to just add more time.

I'm going to ask Fissler if they'll send me a U.S. model to test myself (I only have the Euro one). All of the magic happens in the valve so I definitely want to know from them more about the specs of the US vs. EU valves - with more detail than what is written in the manual to pass a UL certification.

Ciao,

L


hip pressure cooking - making pressure cooking hip, one recipe at a time!

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Take note if you purchase your Fissler from Amazon...

I contacted Fissler via their US website to inquire about their warranty, and specifically to verify an Amazon review I came across. Here is their reply:

Thank you for your response.

The Vitaquick has a limited lifetime warranty....

However, the vendor of Amazon, [xxxxx] does not seem to be an authorized dealer.

Please check our website www.fisslerusa.com and to go the Where to Buy tab for a list of authorized dealers.

If products are purchased from an unauthorized dealer, the warranty is not valid.

I don't know if other manufacturers (Kuhn Rikon, etc.) have the same policy.

The Fissler Vitaquick manual it says 3-year warranty on defective parts and 10-year guarantee that they will keep replacement parts around for you. There is nothing written there about it being void if you bought it from an UN-authorized dealer or that it's a lifetime warranty.

Generally the warranty travels with the item, even it's used. I don't know about Germany but in Austria and Italy when you buy used electronics the seller will tell you how much time is left on the warranty and also give you the original receipt and info so that it can be used if needed. So it is also transferable.

If you had a busted or defective Vitaquick I would recommend pushing the issue and consulting an attorney to get more details about whether a manufacturer can refuse to fix or replace a defective item based on who sold it. No matter what route it took to your house - it originated from their factory.

Ciao,

L


Edited by pazzaglia (log)

hip pressure cooking - making pressure cooking hip, one recipe at a time!

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The photocopied manual Fissler sent me makes no mention of a lifetime warranty and also no mention of the requirement of purchase from an authorized dealer.

I'm not sure, but the US importer may be trying to protect themselves from graymarket goods -- that is Fissler pressure cookers not handled by the importer, with which the importer understandably does not want to get stuck for warranty. Whether it's legal or not I have no idea, but it makes sense from the importer's viewpoint.

Possibly the pots from non-authorized dealers are not stamped with US on the lid?

Or, it may just be more evidence of lack of communication on the part of Fissler.

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Here is Fissler's warranty info: http://www.fisslerusa.com/sample/1aboutfissler/index04.php

"All Fissler products must be purchased from an Authorized Dealer in the United States or Canada in order for Fissler USA to honor any

manufacturer’s warranties."

I believe Roland (the US distributor) requires a copy of your original receipt to verify the retailer for warranty work. I assume if you purchase a greymarket Fissler, the warranty would be covered by the factory in Germany.

Nikon USA's policy is the same. Only cameras/lenses imported by Nikon USA are covered in the US. If greymarket, they won't touch it, and you'll have to send it to Japan for international warranty service.


Monterey Bay area

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When you're done you can make yourself hummus and pasta e ceci.

Indeed! Now that I've prepared both dishes I continue to be very pleased with my Fissler set, whatever the real pressure may turn out to be. The tapered shape is wonderful for working in, and clean up is very easy.

And thank you for the pasta e ceci recipe! One minor note on the ingredients, weight would have been helpful for the pasta measurment, rather than dry volume. I used 4 oz.

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To clarify: Amazon does not sell Fissler directly (Amazon is not an authorized reseller). Instead, 3rd party vendors sell Fisslers through Amazon, and Amazon provides fulfillment for some of them. My point is that many of the vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, therefore no warranty.

Amazon refused to publish my review of the Fissler, which included the following:

Check Fissler's website to verify their U.S. authorized resellers, which is important because "All Fissler products must be purchased from an Authorized Dealer in the United States or Canada in order for Fissler USA to honor any manufacturer's warranties."

Most of Amazon's vendors are not authorized Fissler dealers, including a few who claim to be.


Monterey Bay area

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That's scandalous!


~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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I've been using the hawkins models stainless stell PCs for years now, I've never tried anything else. It seems like the favorites mentioned in this thread are so much more expensive. I'm wondering if anyone else out there can compare the hawkins to some of the fancier ones... I'm just wondering what I'm missing out on if anything, as I PC daily and any improvement is always welcome.

Thanks & Happy New Years!

No, I don't think that you're missing out on anything.

From a practical and utilitarian standpoint a Hawkins is an excellent value.

If you're as comfortable with Hawkins as I am, there's really no good reason to go "fancy."

Another plus: All Hawkins stainless steel pressure cookers made since April 2011 are induction compatible.


Edited by DiggingDogFarm (log)

~Martin :)

"Unsupervised, rebellious, radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader, and adventurous cook. Crotchety, cantankerous, terse, curmudgeon, non-conformist, and contrarian who questions everything!"

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

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I want to make it crystal clear that I'm not holding anything against ATK or Fissler.

I personally reported chipping and splitting handles directly to Fissler in 2012 - for their new model someone wrote an amazon review and posted photos of their handles chipping and breaking.

Both in this forum and on amazon reviews customers reported getting the wrong manual with the pressure cooker, earlier a participant also even quoted an email to customer support.

The Fissler U.S. manual states, and Fissler product manager confirmed, to me personally the U.S. Vitaquick pressure cooker operates at 60kpa.

As far as America's Test Kitchen is concerned, they reported measuring a pressure cooker reaching a temperature level that is not technically possible given the information the manufacturer themselves has published about that pressure cooker. You can calculate if this information is correct yourself by plugging in 60kpa into the Atonine equation and working out the temperature it equates to.

I do fault ATK for putting out a cookbook with cooking times that are vastly different from those that have been published and tested elsewhere. I am not the first or only critic of their reviews another pressure cooker expert published an entire article about the flaws of ATK's reviews when they published them 1996.

I have open, up-front and completely honest and transparent in my interactions here and elsewhere - my username is my real last name. I have nothing to hide and no official cookbook to sell until mine is published next year.

One reason I do not fully trust Cook's Illustrated is that they seldom list their methods. Just how did they measure 253 degrees for the Fissler? I decided to do my own experiment while cooking up some oatmeal and tomato sauce tonight. For measuring temperature I used a Thermax 06SMCMRNGL4C02PK 6 level irreversible temperature indicator on the lid of the jar of tomato sauce. Each level will record if its temperature has been reached or exceeded, accurate to +/- 1 deg C.

The particular Thermax I used has indicators for 99/210, 104/219. 110/230, 116/241, 121/250, and 127/261 deg C/F. All indicators up to and including 121/250 tripped. The 127/261 indicator did not.

Thus I conclude my Fissler reached at least 120 deg C (248 deg F). It may have reached 253 deg F, but I do not have the technology for measuring.

If you are wondering, dinner tonight is pasta e ceci.

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One reason I do not fully trust Cook's Illustrated is that they seldom list their methods. Just how did they measure 253 degrees for the Fissler? I decided to do my own experiment while cooking up some oatmeal and tomato sauce tonight. For measuring temperature I used a Thermax 06SMCMRNGL4C02PK 6 level irreversible temperature indicator on the lid of the jar of tomato sauce. Each level will record if its temperature has been reached or exceeded, accurate to +/- 1 deg C.

The particular Thermax I used has indicators for 99/210, 104/219. 110/230, 116/241, 121/250, and 127/261 deg C/F. All indicators up to and including 121/250 tripped. The 127/261 indicator did not.

Thus I conclude my Fissler reached at least 120 deg C (248 deg F). It may have reached 253 deg F, but I do not have the technology for measuring.

If you are wondering, dinner tonight is pasta e ceci.

That's a very creative set-up Jo, but a jar and lid can conduct heat directly from the base of the cooker. Even if the jar is on a trivet the heat will come from the trivet/steamer basket, to the jar, and lid.

ATK's video about the reviews very briefly flashed a remote logging thermometer. Though they were talking about stove top pressure cookers, they showed a sine graph that could only be achieved in an Electric cooker -looks better on camera than a line going straight up and flat. There is no information written or recorded on HOW they used that thermometer for their tests.

Shortly after they published their reviews I wrote ATK and asked what methods they used for their tests and received no answer.

I have a remote logging thermometer (which measures temperatures every 10 seconds up to 125c), a sling that keeps the thermometer suspended in water without touching any heat-conducive elements, and developed a testing routine that includes calibration at 100C before the test begins.

A US Fissler Vitaquick just arrived at my door via express courier so as soon as time permits I will be doing my own measurements.

I'll gladly share my results and testing procedure here, in case anyone is interested in reading or re-producing them.

ATK has the veneer of respectability but talk to an alumnus and you get a different story. ATK rips- off recipes without attribution and in general is a bit shady.

Very interesting info!

Ciao,

L


hip pressure cooking - making pressure cooking hip, one recipe at a time!

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One reason I do not fully trust Cook's Illustrated is that they seldom list their methods. Just how did they measure 253 degrees for the Fissler? I decided to do my own experiment while cooking up some oatmeal and tomato sauce tonight. For measuring temperature I used a Thermax 06SMCMRNGL4C02PK 6 level irreversible temperature indicator on the lid of the jar of tomato sauce. Each level will record if its temperature has been reached or exceeded, accurate to +/- 1 deg C.

The particular Thermax I used has indicators for 99/210, 104/219. 110/230, 116/241, 121/250, and 127/261 deg C/F. All indicators up to and including 121/250 tripped. The 127/261 indicator did not.

Thus I conclude my Fissler reached at least 120 deg C (248 deg F). It may have reached 253 deg F, but I do not have the technology for measuring.

If you are wondering, dinner tonight is pasta e ceci.

That's a very creative set-up Jo, but a jar and lid can conduct heat directly from the base of the cooker. Even if the jar is on a trivet the heat will come from the trivet/steamer basket, to the jar, and lid.

ATK's video about the reviews very briefly flashed a remote logging thermometer. Though they were talking about stove top pressure cookers, they showed a sine graph that could only be achieved in an Electric cooker -looks better on camera than a line going straight up and flat. There is no information written or recorded on HOW they used that thermometer for their tests.

Shortly after they published their reviews I wrote ATK and asked what methods they used for their tests and received no answer.

I have a remote logging thermometer (which measures temperatures every 10 seconds up to 125c), a sling that keeps the thermometer suspended in water without touching any heat-conducive elements, and developed a testing routine that includes calibration at 100C before the test begins.

A US Fissler Vitaquick just arrived at my door via express courier so as soon as time permits I will be doing my own measurements.

I'll gladly share my results and testing procedure here, in case anyone is interested in reading or re-producing them.

ATK has the veneer of respectability but talk to an alumnus and you get a different story. ATK rips- off recipes without attribution and in general is a bit shady.

Very interesting info!

Ciao,

L

The jars were on the Fissler steamer insert. It's been many decades since I took thermodynamics, however I suspect conduction from the base of the cooker was negligible. If the jar lid and the Thermax were heating by conduction from the base, so would be the food in the jar. Please tell us more about the measuring equipment you use.

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The jars were on the Fissler steamer insert. It's been many decades since I took thermodynamics, however I suspect conduction from the base of the cooker was negligible. If the jar lid and the Thermax were heating by conduction from the base, so would be the food in the jar. Please tell us more about the measuring equipment you use.

Here is a chart that shows that stainless steel, pyrex glass and aluminum have a much higher conductivity than water:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html

However, your test and set-up is a likely scenario of how ATK measured temperature in their pressure cookers. I don't know enough about chemistry to comment on whether the acidity of a tomato sauce could further influence conductivity.

I'm taking measurements of water under pressure because what interests me is the temperature at which the food cooks not the temperature of the pressure cooker base nor the steam above the food.

I'm in the middle of a big project now, but will post photos of the sling and, once tested, charts from the tests and my testing procedure when I get some free time.

In the meantime, here are the specs of my remote data logger:

http://www.lascarelectronics.com/temperaturedatalogger.php?datalogger=382

Ciao,

L


Edited by pazzaglia (log)

hip pressure cooking - making pressure cooking hip, one recipe at a time!

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This is all very exciting. I feel like I'm about to read the final "reveal" of a mystery novel.

I got fed up with the uncertainty around the actual specs of the Fissler and got a 5L KR Top model on sale. :(

Shame on Fissler for allowing this situation to persist for so long. Maybe if the North American operations were run by Fissler itself (like KR does) instead of depending on one distributor, the situation would be a different.

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This is all very exciting. I feel like I'm about to read the final "reveal" of a mystery novel.

Right on.

Like JoNorvelleWalker, after much research (but apparently not enough), I too finally decided on the large Fissler Quatro Set (and received it today), but after reading with some trepidation that it only gets up to 60 kPa, I have been trying to figure out if that is indeed the case, and if so, if I should send it back. So I'm looking forward to seeing the results! :)

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Shame on Fissler for allowing this situation to persist for so long. Maybe if the North American operations were run by Fissler itself (like KR does) instead of depending on one distributor, the situation would be a different.

Kuhn Rikon has the same policy - warranty is valid only if purchased from an authorized dealer:

Thank you for your inquiry. Our warranty will be valid if purchased from an authorized retailer; Amazon is one but their 3rd party vendors are not. If you want to provide name of the vendor you are looking to purchase it from, I can let you know if they have an account with us.

Regards,

Jill Stroup

Office Manager – Kuhn Rikon Corp.


Edited by ojisan (log)

Monterey Bay area

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Right on.

Like JoNorvelleWalker, after much research (but apparently not enough), I too finally decided on the large Fissler Quatro Set (and received it today), but after reading with some trepidation that it only gets up to 60 kPa, I have been trying to figure out if that is indeed the case, and if so, if I should send it back. So I'm looking forward to seeing the results! :)

I am still happy with my Fissler purchase. I am convinced the temperature of mine goes up to at least 250 deg F. I use mine a lot and cooked with it as recently as this afternoon. I wish they would just release a version of the lid rated at 15 PSI and be done with it (and give it to their long suffering US customers at no cost). If 60 kPa is when the second white bar begins to show, it does not bother me a bit, as long as not less than 15 PSI is when the relief valve opens.

Note for most pressure cooker recipes Modernist Cuisine calls for venting the pot at pressure for (if I remember correctly) 30 to 45 seconds to remove as much air as possible.

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I wish they would just release a version of the lid rated at 15 PSI and be done with it (and give it to their long suffering US customers at no cost).

Ha, wouldn't that be nice... but... :)

If 60 kPa is when the second white bar begins to show...

Thanks for the update on your satisfaction level and the tip, Jo. I was kind of wondering if the 60 kPa was, as you said, just as the second white bar begins to show. However, seems like a long way to go from the first sliver of the white bar to a bit past it to get to 100 kPa, but maybe not... If their PC does reach "15 psi", it seems kind of crazy that Fissler wouldn't market a 15 psi-capable product as such, especially in the US. Maybe the US marketing team didn't do enough research? (Pazzaglia alluded to a lack of research before with regard the US team concluding that Americans would be confused by a dial-setting.) It'd be equally strange, though, if they created such a low-pressure model for the US market, unless it was for a niche market.

Hm, maybe the factory is on Zugspitze (the highest peak in Germany) and that's why their claimed pressure is so low. That would put 15 psi a bit closer to the 8.7 psi stated in the manual. :)

It's not much help since I don't have precise equipment (electric glass-top), but I got the same results as you guys doing the chick pea test. Took about 6.5 minutes for room temp water and pot to reach the second white ring. (Stove was warm, but not so much that one couldn't leave a hand on it.) Started 13-min timer. Vented for about 1.5 minutes as glass-top cooled, then sat about middle of the second white ring for the remainder of the 13 min. I released the pressure right away just to see if they would still be cooked. Turned out soft (not al-dente, not mushy). Anyway, like I said, though, pretty imprecise experiment.

Btw, just for kicks, I emailed the US branch (if for nothing more than to insinuate that there is a definite problem somewhere) and received the cookie-cutter response that ojisan received:

"The Vitaquick operates at 9-11 PSI on the low setting and 13-15 PSI on the high setting. At normal altitude, it would be 11 and 15. Cook's Illustrated and America's Test Kitchen recently tested all pressure cookers in the US and have found that only the Vitaquick actually reaches 15 PSI under pressure."

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