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Is it a mistake to go to Sydney and not eat at Tetsuya's?


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In a few months I'm heading up to Sydney. I'm primarily going there to eat nice food. I'll probably be sleeping in a cardboard box as a result, but hey, at least I'll be eating okay, right? There are a few restaurants that, for a myriad of reasons, have caught my eye (that list looks insane, I know, but I'm not planning on doing matching wines, etc). These include ...

  • Quay
  • Aria
  • Pier
  • Guillaume @ Bennelong
  • est
  • Marque
  • Flying Fish
  • Sake
  • Four in Hand
  • Becasse

There are a few odd places, too. Pastry shops and such.

Anyway. That's a pretty extensive list, as I see it. I was told by friends to book super early--especially for Quay and, if I wanted to go there, Tetsuya's. I was initially considering Tetsuya's ... possibly in place of, say, est. But I've heard very mixed feedback. Very mixed. I've heard people rate it as totally amazing but I've heard a lot of people make what seem to be very valid complaints ... not just the usual whinging you hear on sites like eatability (i.e. "I paid $200 for a meal and it wasn't the most amazing in the world therefore it was crap and a waste of money, even tho' I kind of had a nice time").

Should I be going to Tetsuya's? Are there any places on that list that really don't belong that, that should be replaced by something I haven't really considered? Should I be trimming one or even two places? I'm most excited about Becausse, Guillaume (having loved his Melbourne operation, Bistro Guillaume), Marque, Quay, Four in Hand and Aria. I won't be cutting those. But Sake and Flying Fish? I'm still not 100% sold on them.

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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Are you going out on your own or with others?

Now, I've lived in Sydney for 15 years and still haven't been to Tetsuya's, so if it's a mistake, I've been compounding it for a few years! :laugh:

That said, we don't get out as much as we'd (or I'd) like, so that may be part of the problem... From personal experience (and that of my colleagues) I can definitely recommend est and Becasse. Marque also would come in high on the list, although I haven't been there myself. I wasn't thrilled with Flying Fish on my only visit - something about the atmosphere and style of food put me off.

And there's always my personal favourite, Lochiel House, but that's probably a bit out of your way!

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I'll be with my girlfriend at all of them. A friend or two may be coming to a couple of places.

That restaurant you linked does look beautiful. Shame it's so far away. If we'd been driving to Sydney I'd be able to justify it based purely on that photo on the 'menu' page. I'm easily swayed.

Yeah, I've heard that about Flying Fish. Maybe I'll save it (and Sake) for next time. Any cheap and cheerful places you can recommend for lunch?

Edited by ChrisTaylor (log)

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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Snadra, that does indeed look like a charming locale. Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I didn't see an address anywhere on the website for Lochiel House.

Thanks, ChrisTaylor, for starting this thread. I'll be in Sydney for 2 nights at the beginning of Feb, and 1 or 2 nights at the end of the month. Will investigate est and Becasse, in the chances of convincing DH to come along.

Karen Dar Woon

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Hi Chris, i'm from Melbourne too. On our last trip to Sydney, we ate at Quay, Tetsuya's, and Aria.

Quay - without doubt Australia's no. 1 restaurant. The critics say so, and I think they are right! Everything that came out was unfailingly pretty, perfectly cooked, and had an incredible complexity of subtle flavours and aromas. The mud crab congee was to die for. The broth was clear and smelt powerfully of ginger. Yet when you taste it, the expected pungency of ginger was quite muted. Everyone has seen the guava snow egg on Masterchef. If you taste it in real life (especially with the accompanying wine, which tastes exactly like the dessert) - you will never encounter anything so refreshing, with so many contrasts in texture, and yet so subtle in flavour. After I finished my dinner I told the waiter that I have nothing left to live for.

Tetsuya - not as good as Quay, but still better than anything in Melbourne. Everything was done to a very high standard - food was perfectly cooked, perfectly seasoned, and plated with a delicate touch. Everyone's plate looked absolutely identical, almost as if they were photocopies of each other. Score one for consistency. I was amazed by some of the dishes - chicken that was daringly cooked until it was only just done - unbelievably tender and moist. Similarly, the grilled prawn and confit fish were only just cooked to the point of doneness and dressed with the simplest of dressings. The precision and consistency of every dish was amazing, and is not something you see very often. The service was examplary - they really looked after us.

Aria - a good restaurant, but the food was rather boring. I have nothing to complain about the quality of the food, but you can eat similar quality pork belly, lamb, and chicken at countless places in Melbourne. I place Aria somewhere around the standard of Maze, but even then Maze sometimes shows flashes of inspiration and creativity that are missing in Aria. Not worth mentioning "Aria" in the same sentence as Quay or Tetsuya.

I haven't been to any of the other restaurants on your list.

Oh and BTW Chris ... it was me who has been commenting in your blog :)

Edited by Keith_W (log)
There is no love more sincere than the love of food - George Bernard Shaw
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I was really excited when my booking was confirmed at Quay. Even tho' it's a while away and I was 99% sure I was going to get in, I was so happy to see their email.

I've decided to push Tetsuya's, Flying Fish and Sake back to another time--maybe the year after, as I'm sure I can justify making this an annual trip, given I want to try a bunch of other places as well. Bentley. Rockpool. Berowra Waters.

As for Aria, yeah, I've seen the menu ... but honestly, that's the sort of food I like. I'm excited as anything about Quay but I have a soft spot, a huge one, for menus like Aria's. It's probably why I enjoyed the hell out of La Luna and MoVida Aqui. But interesting what you say about Maze: I was really happy with the quality of food there and I ignored the general lack of innovation because everything tasted good. I do hope the service and atmosphere is superior at Aria, though. It's maze's service and atmosphere that would hold me back from returning.

Incidentally, Keith, what would you rate as your picks of Melbourne? I'm slowly but surely working my way through the '11 Food Guide's hatted restaurants. Only struck two duds so far--Pearl was a shocker and Abla's was mediocre--but then again, I'm not that far into it. Embrasse is my favourite so far.

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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Hi Chris, I know what you mean when you say you like the look of the Aria menu. If you mean "good, solid food which is well executed that I could eat every day" then Aria won't disappoint. But if I were to take the trouble of going to Sydney, I want to see what they are capable of, and not have to pay more for food which is just as good (and cheaper) in La Luna.

My pick of Melbourne restaurants: Rockpool, the two Movida's (but not Movida next door), Cutler, Cumulus, Verge.

Could do better: Maze, Fifteen, Grossi Florentino.

Disappointments: Ezard (nearly everything was over-seasoned), Pearl (the Duck curry was plain awful).

There is no love more sincere than the love of food - George Bernard Shaw
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Hi Chris, I know what you mean when you say you like the look of the Aria menu. If you mean "good, solid food which is well executed that I could eat every day" then Aria won't disappoint. But if I were to take the trouble of going to Sydney, I want to see what they are capable of, and not have to pay more for food which is just as good (and cheaper) in La Luna.

My pick of Melbourne restaurants: Rockpool, the two Movida's (but not Movida next door), Cutler, Cumulus, Verge.

Could do better: Maze, Fifteen, Grossi Florentino.

Disappointments: Ezard (nearly everything was over-seasoned), Pearl (the Duck curry was plain awful).

Fair point re: Aria.

Interesting what you say about Grossi. Booked in there for next month.

Interesting what you say about Pearl. I'd read the glowing reviews and seen, of course, the two hats on the front door. Two hats that they'd had for pretty much a whole decade. Went in a large group. Food ranged from terrible to just okay. Some of the food arrived cold. Service was shocking. And they acknowledged this by providing the eight of us with a couple plates of petit fours. The whole experience felt like they didn't give a shit.

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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I'll be with my girlfriend at all of them. A friend or two may be coming to a couple of places.

That restaurant you linked does look beautiful. Shame it's so far away. If we'd been driving to Sydney I'd be able to justify it based purely on that photo on the 'menu' page. I'm easily swayed.

Yeah, I've heard that about Flying Fish. Maybe I'll save it (and Sake) for next time. Any cheap and cheerful places you can recommend for lunch?

I know what you mean about being easily swayed - the right picture on a restaurant website can capture an essence that really influences the way I feel about a place too! Lochiel House is a fair distance from the city, and it's not on the 'tourist' side of the mountains either, which just makes it that much harder to get to if you're from out of town. For us though, it's our nearest 'hatted' restaurant (just as well I like it then!).

Re lunch: I work on Macquarie street in the CBD, and my lunch preferences for a quick bite are based more on geography, convenience and coworkers than on being ideal food destinations, but there are some decent enough places around. A selection:

Ryan's Bar, Martin Place Bar and Verandah are all pretty reliable for a pub-style lunch with a beer or a glass of wine. The noodle dishes at Bligh Bar are great, but the service has been APPALLING the last few times I was there - two people would probably fare better than the groups of 6 or so that I am usually in though. Martin Place Bar is probably the best of the lot food & service wise, and has a good selection of beers on tap. Opera Bar is great for an afternoon drink (the views! the location!) but the food seems to be steadily treading the path of mediocracy and is overpriced (as you'd expect).

If you do want lunch at/near Circular Quay, Mirabelle is a nice option, although it's in a funny sort of space, in the lobby of an office building, and edging towards pricier. Further inland, Bacco Pasticcera at Chifley Plaza is excellent for a sandwich on sourdough - their sandwiches are huge actually, so consider sharing one and following it with a coffee (excellent) & pastry. Avoid The Avenue in the Chifley Forecourt unless you're just having a coffee (which is very good). I think Sushi Tei across the road is decent but not spectacular if you want something lighter, and you can eat quite cheaply - it gets mixed reviews with my colleagues though.

Although I haven't been there in nearly a year now, Chinta Ria is a very fun and rather noisy place, in a great location on the city side of Darling Harbour. And I rarely get up to Haymarket these days (at my last job nights out with my coworkers ALWAYS ended up at Golden Century for some reason) but Uighur Cuisine is definitely in the cheap & cheerful category. You'll like it, assuming you enjoy lots and lots of lamb - everyone I take there leaves very happy (actually, when I was there in November there was an egg and leek dish that we particularly enjoyed).

Finally, if you go to David Jones Food Hall, there are quite a few eating options as well, both takeaway and counter service (the noodle bar line is usually quite long, but I like the cheese counter myself), or you can get some cheese, ham, fresh bread and a bit of fruit and have a picnic in one of the parks - maybe somewhere in the Botanic Gardens overlooking the harbour, just to soak up the Sydney vibes.

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What area are you staying in? The CBD can be a bit of a wasteland for interesting and well-priced food, but do I like Ash St Cellars and Fix St. James for lunch, although they're not terribly cheap. Ichi Ban Boshi in the Galeries Victoria is great for tonkotsu ramen (an ode to pork fat and collagen). Tonkotsu's only available after 2pm though, before that all the standard ramen variations apply.

Chinatown is a better bet for cheap but good food, of the Asian persuasion, naturally. I work in Chinatown and think I have eaten just about everywhere, literally. Recommendations:

Thai - for fiery, complex Thai, beyond sweet chilli and cashews:

Chat Thai on Campbell St

Spice I Am on Wentworth Ave

Thanon Khao San on Pitt St

Thainatown on Goulburn St

Japanese/Sushi:

Miso (for tonkatsu crumbed pork) in World Square, which runs between George and Pitt Sts

Musashi (bento box lunch specials) on Pitt St

Makoto (sushi train) on Liverpool St

Umi Kaiten Zushi on Thomas St

Gumshara Ramen (in the Eating World foodcourt at the Darling Harbour end of the Chinatown mall)

Menya (ramen) in the complex on Quay St

Northern Chinese/Uighur:

Sea Bay Handmade Noodle (closer to the CBD, on Pitt St)

Uighur Cuisine that Snadra has recommended above, for cumin and chilli lamb

Anything in the complex on Quay St (the same one Menya is in, above)

Sichuanese:

Red Chilli on Dixon St

Golden Sichuan on Goulburn St

Cantonese:

Harder to find cheap sit down, other than yum cha (recs: Zilver on Pitt St, Palace on Castlereagh St in the CBD, and Marigold on George St) and food courts (try the top level of the Market City mall, it's all reasonably good, but I recommend the BBQ stall, with hanging ducks - or Dixon St Foodcourt, in a basement on the Chinatown mall).

Vietnamese:

Pho Pasteur on George St

Xic Lo on Thomas St

Malaysian:

Mamak on Goulburn St (beware queues)

Cafe Katsuri on George St

MC Lucksa (Indonesian/Malaysian variety) in the Market City foodcourt

All these are well within walking distance of each other. There's also En Casa for Spanish on Pitt St, and there is also LOTS of Korean on Pitt St towards the CBD, but they mostly rev up at dinner, and plus for some reason Korean in Sydney is rarely cheap, even the non-meat centric dishes.

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  • Quay
  • Aria
  • Pier
  • Guillaume @ Bennelong
  • est
  • Marque
  • Flying Fish
  • Sake
  • Four in Hand
  • Becasse

It is quite a staid lit with the usual suspects, and I would not add Tets to it, I think he needs to refresh the place/menu. That said I have not been for years but had found each visit was less enjoyable than the last and so it dropped from the list. Sake was a big disappointment for me, service misses and the food didn't wow (and it should at the price). Aria wasn't memorable, it is busy and popular and I would say a safe choice for business entertaining.

I would add Sepia which I believe is heading for the top league (ex Tets chef), I would also add a few of the new "casual" diffusion places. One of my most enjoyable meals last year was the new "Duke Bistro" (young chef of the year ex Sepia), also in this genre is "District Dining" (Assiettes second), and "Cotton Duck".

For good inexpensive "proper" lunch near Circular Quay try Tony Bilson's "Bar One" classic French in a wine bar, or "Etch" in the Intercontinental which is Becasse's second), or even the "Customs House" as it has a great view (but avoid in the evening as it is full of office celebrations) and quite decent food for the area.

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Wow. Thanks for the suggestions. My partner got a week off work so the current list is:

Dinners:

Becasse

Guillaume @ Bennelong

Quay

Aria

Four in Hand

est

Pier

And lunch at:

Marque

Bentley (because of nickrey's thread, mostly)

Pastry:

Le Renaissance

Adriano Zumbo

I'll note those suggestions down, tho'. I'd like to make this a reasonably annual thing. The degustation at Sepia looks really nice. Cotton Duck is a probable lunch candidate.

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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I was recently in Sydney and had the opportunity to experience, Quay, Marque, Tetsuya, Otto, Longrain and Rockpool Bar and Grill.

I would skip Tetsuya altogether. Although the fish was prepared extremely well and there were some highlights to the meal, the service was spotty, the decor looked 'tired' and overall the experience was very very underwhelming and surely not worth the expense, in my opinion,

You will not go wrong with Quay and Marque.

Otto is a great Italian seafood restaurant on Woolloomoolo Harbor which is nice place for lunch if the weather is good. Longrain served some of the best and innovative Thai food we have ever had. Fun family-style food with great cocktails.

Rockpool Bar and Grill was okay but nothing worth going back to.

Edited by hapacooking (log)
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We have branches of the Longrain and Rockpool Bar & Grill empires in Melbourne, anyway. Can check them out whenever I want. Will note Otto down for future reference, tho'--that menu looks nice.

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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I ended up cutting Aria and booking Sepia instead. The feedback, on here at least, has been pretty consistent. Urbanspoon reflects pretty much the same opinion, too.

Thanks for the recommendation on that one.

Edited by ChrisTaylor (log)

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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can't say much about sydney, but in my humble opinion, Cutler & Co could very well be the best place to eat in Melbourne at the moment...

Nice blog Chris... ambitious, and with decent photography...

"Coffee and cigarettes... the breakfast of champions!"

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Thanks.

I keep hearing good things about Cutler & Co. My friend, whose opinion I trust on such things, rates it as his favourite too. It's on the 'to-do' list for this year, along with Attica, Grossi Florentino, Embrasse (one of my few repeats), Rockpool (for a gift: my dad has very conservative tastes and probably wouldn't even enjoy, say, Circa) and Lake House, Royal Mail Hotel (LH and RMH for my girlfriend's birthday). Will have to fit Loam in there somewhere. That'll be quite an excursion from the south eastern 'burbs. Need to find some willing fellow food nerds who won't balk at going the distance. It'd be nice to do The Point, too--their degustation looks okay--but I think I'm going to be doing okay as is. Thank god I don't drink that much wine or I'd be living in the gutter.

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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Here's my thoughts. Quay is a must in my opinion. With the usual debate about how high an Australian restaurant would rank in the Michelin Guide, this is the one that would most likely get three stars in my opinion. It's not at that "great" three star level of a place like L'Arpege or Gagnaire (when he is "on"). But it is very very good. Food wise, Nicholas Le Bec's food has it just over him, and so does Chistian Le Squer. Service wise, it's almost as good as Gagnaire, but not quite as good as Ledoyen. It's probably a good two star restaurant at it's best, although I think that view would probably get them their third. The congee is a definite Three Star dish, as is the seven texture chocolate cake. The snow egg is up there with the best desserts I've ever had, in the same league as L'Arpege's apple tart.

Becasse I found terribly overrated. Poor timing of dishes, slow service and not that great food. The food to me seemed to be stuck in an era past, sort of around the 2003-07 era if comparing to our European friends. Good for Australia, but not good comparatively. It's at a good price though.

Rockpool I found to be brilliant. Since Phil Wood took over, the place has really lifted to another level. The service was rough at times and probably needs a good kick up the arse, but the quality of food was right up there. The abalone, chirashi zushi, marron and the Baked Alaska are classy dishes that wouldn't look out of place in most three star places.

Tetsuya's is a bit one dimensional. Look, it's a cracking restaurant and a definite three star when it's "on", but the service can be poor, it does look dated and the desserts really let the place down. His savoury dishes can be one dimensional in texture, but are still amazing dishes. Tets probably needs to sit down and refurbish the place, hire a great pastry chef and get some textural and heat differences on the menu here and there. It's worth a visit, but it can be a love hate relationship.

Est I find particularly underrated. It probably isn't the quality of Quay and Tetsuya's, but it is right up there with the very best. He's got this whole Asian/French thing going on, but entirely different to Tetsuya. His balance with food is amongst the very top echelon of chefs around. His dishes can lack punch and texture though. Not all of them, but you might find one or two. If you could only visit three in Sydney, here would be a strong option.

Yet to try Marque. Not sure about Pier any more since he handed back his stars. He's changed the style of restaurant so... The desserts have definitely taken a backward step since Katrina Kanetani left which was the last time I went. But I haven't been since he handed his stars back. Katrina Kanetani is the best pastry chef in the world as far as I'm concerned. Her style, sense of balance, textural strengths and sheer quality made the Quay snow egg, Pierre Gagniare's Le Grande Desserts and L'Arpege's apple tart look like they were made by rank amateurs. I dare say that she was worth two of the three hats at Pier when she was there.

Bentley was good rather than great. My biggest problem was texture and temperature again. Went for lunch, and almost everything was silky smooth and cool. That's a good thing in moderation, but at the end I was sick of it. Bloody cheap though for the quality you get.

Adriano Zumbo's pastries are okay, but they sure as hell aren't of the quality of Laduree, Herme, Ong, Balaguer etc.

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Bentley was good rather than great. My biggest problem was texture and temperature again. Went for lunch, and almost everything was silky smooth and cool. That's a good thing in moderation, but at the end I was sick of it. Bloody cheap though for the quality you get.

That may be a lunch thing or what you ordered. We were there the other night and none of the dishes could be called cool. Moreover, Brent Savage seems to deliberately add textural elements to the dishes so I'm not sure where the "silky smooth" comment comes from (in my experience, yours may have been completely different).

Given the price for what you get, as you remarked, may I recommend a visit in the evening? It could move your opinion up a notch.

Edited by nickrey (log)

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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Wow. Thanks for the suggestions. My partner got a week off work so the current list is:

Dinners:

Becasse

Guillaume @ Bennelong

Quay

Aria

Four in Hand

est

Pier

And lunch at:

Marque

Bentley (because of nickrey's thread, mostly)

Pastry:

Le Renaissance

Adriano Zumbo

I'll note those suggestions down, tho'. I'd like to make this a reasonably annual thing. The degustation at Sepia looks really nice. Cotton Duck is a probable lunch candidate.

There's some serious eating there Chris. I hope you'll be reviewing the restaurants here as you go to them. Be interested in your views.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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Bentley was good rather than great. My biggest problem was texture and temperature again. Went for lunch, and almost everything was silky smooth and cool. That's a good thing in moderation, but at the end I was sick of it. Bloody cheap though for the quality you get.

That may be a lunch thing or what you ordered. We were there the other night and none of the dishes could be called cool. Moreover, Brent Savage seems to deliberately add textural elements to the dishes so I'm not sure where the "silky smooth" comment comes from (in my experience, yours may have been completely different).

Given the price for what you get, as you remarked, may I recommend a visit in the evening? It could move your opinion up a notch.

It may well be that it was a lunch thing. My wife commented a couple of days later on her experience and said a very similar thing. Might just have been the menu we had. It's not a terrible restaurant by any means, and is probably at one Michelin star level. I just felt that a little more texture would have been nice.

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Royal Mail Hotel (LH and RMH for my girlfriend's birthday).

Ate at RMH just after Christmas. It was very good indeed with some very strong cooking and I would eat there again if it wasn't so far away. We tried both menu's with my partner going veggie. The veggie menu had some highs especially the very deep broth and the mushrooms. But there were some lows one especially where the dish was the same as the omnivore menu but with tofu substituted for the fish. The fish worked but the tofu didn't I understand it is tricky to do two menus from a small kitchen but this seemed a little lazy.

Two other gripes: the wine pours were generous and quick, so we were nearly through our first bottle after only one course, I like my wine but needed to walk home. The second one was the pacing, I like long meals but 45 mins between a course was too much.

We didn't stay at the hotel (very exy) but stayed at a small cottage a 10 minute walk away - very pleasant.

You could also add Beechworth to the list of good food destinations, lots of great variety and we had a cracking meal at "Provenance" - very very good.

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Thanks for the heads up on the cottage (and that website as a whole, even). The hotel is really expensive--and, given we're hitting two nice restaurants and I'd like to organise a couple of other things for her, it was a bit much. Especially given a lot of reviews of the restaurant comment on the quality of the rooms ...

Edited by ChrisTaylor (log)

Chris Taylor

Host, eG Forums - ctaylor@egstaff.org

 

I've never met an animal I didn't enjoy with salt and pepper.

Melbourne
Harare, Victoria Falls and some places in between

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