Oriental Garden

[SobaAddict70]

Friday night, met with relatives I hadn't seen in 20+ years (two aunts, an uncle and a cousin of mine). Much catching up to do, so we had an excursion to Chinatown, another destination that I don't go to much in NYC. The 6 of us had dinner at Oriental Garden (located on Elizabeth between Bayard and Pell Streets), and had a grand old time. I recommend another excursion out there, but this time with several e-gulleteers. Groups of 4 or more are highly recommended, due to the profusion of excellent Cantonese seafood dishes on the menu.

OG has the typical "choose your fish and eat it" gimmick found at other Cantonese establishments in Chinatown and in Flushing, but here, you wouldn't know it as a gimmick--that's how much its used to great effect.

Dishes we had (no meat, btw. we wanted to experience an "all-seafood-all-Cantonese" menu):

1. Platter of shrimp, blanched in boiling water (about 200 in all): EXTREMELY fresh and sweet; they had been alive only a few minutes before. These were served with a dipping sauce of shoyu, scallions, minced hot peppers, sugar, and Chinese rice wine.

2. Steamed oysters, served in their shell, topped with black beans, scallions, and ginger;

3. Steamed grouper, topped with ginger, scallions, mustard greens and choy sum (the mustard greens had been parboiled and blanched, so as to remove any lingering bitterness) (the grouper had been swimming only a few minutes before) (the cheeks and fish head are the best part -- but other ppl may not be as adventurous as I am... )

4. Fish soup (stock made from the grouper) with tofu, straw mushrooms, mustard greens, and green chives.

5. Dungeness crab, stir-fried with yellow bean paste, ginger, garlic and onions. Some of the crab meat had been removed from the body and stir-fried with the other ingredients, then served in the shell. The claws were served whole (unshelled). Served with hot Chinese mustard.

6. Lobster Cantonese (but with ginger and scallions, not the usual white gunky sauce served at other C. places). When you go to OG, ask that it be served this way -- far superior to other versions of LC you may have had. Served with fish paste.

7. Conch, stir-fried with vegetables, and served atop chow fun noodles. The noodles were sauced in a mixture of seafood stock, crab meat, crab roe, garlic, and yellow chives.

8. Red bean soup. (one of the simplest Chinese desserts, especially when you consider that its made of nothing but red beans, water, rock sugar and ginger)

9. Marshmallows and almond cookies.

10. Fresh fruit.

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For parties of 4 people or more, its best to call and make a reservation. OG has a liquor license, also.

SA

[Suzanne F]

Soba, that sounds like a very, very satisfying meal. Thanks for the excellent report. If you don't mind my asking, how much was it for all of you?

[SobaAddict70]

it was a family excursion, so I didn't ask my uncle.

I expect that it was at least $100, but less than $150 (even with the beer ordered by my uncle).

Note that the house hands out nibbles (probably with a large group, not sure about smaller sized groups), such as pickled vegetables and unsalted peanuts. Scented hot napkins are provided afterwards.

Also, jasmine tea was served to our group. Not sure if other groups merit such treatment. I was observing from our table -- there were substantial sized groups of Asians and Americans (Asians, Americans and mixed) throughout our dinner. I couldn't see if people were served differently, although I'm sure it helps if you show interest in the cuisine beyond the usual standards, and also if you speak Cantonese (as was the case with one of my aunts and her husband (they speak Cantonese, but the rest of my family speaks Mandarin and Fukienese)). However, even with those two caveats, I'm sure others might be able to garner a satisfying experience.

SA

Edited December 1, 2002 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[Suzanne F]

Wow, that's VERY reasonable. Will have to check them out!

BTW, whenever we get a fried whole fish, I always go for the head and cheeks. You are so right about their being the best part.

Again, thank you.

[Pan]

SobaAddict:

Thanks for your report, but your location is impossible. It's on Elizabeth between Canal and Bayard. Elizabeth street does not extend south of Bayard. Here's the info:

Oriental Garden Restaurant

14 Elizabeth Street, New York, NY 10013

(212) 619-0085

I will be sure to try the place out. I don't think I've tried it; I think I tried the place next door to it that IIRC has "Seafood" in its name. I had excellent shrimp there, but the vegetables were a little old (such as their celery).

[anil]

Among the greens try baby bok choi

[Pan]

Thanks, Anil. I like baby bok choi and will remember the recommendation.

[Bux]

We had dinner the other night at Oriental Garden and can confrim that it's a restaurant worth knowing and certainly one that will be on our list of when we're thinking of eating in Chinatown again. For Chinatown, it's a relatively upscale place and has tanks of live seafood. While other food looked good and what we ordered of it tasted good, I think seafood is the draw.

We partially recreated that meal of Soba's. The lightly cook live shrimp were very good, although I've had tastier shrimp in Barcelona and Honk Kong. In Hong Kong, they were also live. In Barcelona they were exceptionally fresh. Obviously I'm not popping off to either of those places for a $30 meal.

Steamed oysters, served in their shell, topped with black beans, scallions, and ginger were superb. These are very large oysters and very nicely cooked, even if my preference is usually for raw oysters. The texture was very much like a fine custard or silky beancurd. For me this would be a must dish on a return visit.

We also had a steamed fish, that I thought was sea bass (I didn't do the ordering). It was also incredibly well cooked and easily recommendable to fish lovers. Saucing was light and brothlike. Small crabs in a tasty sauce were, unfortunately, really too small to have much meat and what meat there was, wasn't easily gotten to. Delicious, but not much to eat. I'd skip it next time.

Although a seafood house, the eggplant with pork and garlic sauce was one of the best examples of this sort of dish I've had. There were several other courses. Some came with more familar heavy sauces. Currently I seem to favor the lighter sauces and dishes without much of a sauce, but all of these dishes were very flavorful and I enjoyed them. Even the dishes I'd not likely order again are ones I would enjoy if someone else ordered them. About the only disappointing dish for me was the salt baked squid. I found the batter underdooked and the dish a bit oily. I haven't had great salt baked squid in many years and have found little of it even good since the old Phoenix Garden closed in the arcade between Elizabeth and the Bowery.

I've not been eating in Chinatown as much lately as I used to and have run low on recommendable restaurants. My luck is changing again and this is one of the ways.

[SobaAddict70]

If memory serves, and reading the post again, we had Dungeness crabs which are much larger than the ones that were served to us.

OG has several crabs -- softshell ($7 per piece), king, Dungeness and regular crabs. Next time, get the Dungeness.

Anyway, it was a good trip even if things didn''t all go exactly as planned...

SA

[Bux]

The soft shell crabs might have been interesting, although maybe not, as the salt baked squid were my least favorite dish. Perhaps I want to concentrate on steamed, boiled and maybe stir fried dishes here. They seem to have a talent with delicately cooked things. The only dish I didn't try was the beef dish as it was ordered for the friend of a friend who arrived late and announced he didn't eat seafood or fish except for shrimp because of some suspected or anticipated allergy. I would have had less sympathy--this is a restaurant specializing in seafood--but he arrived late and just after we finished all the pricey shrimp. It was a very good meal and I thought the tab would run more than it did from what we were eating. So although one can easily eat for less in Chinatown, I thought it was good value, but then I had my share of the shrimp.

[SobaAddict70]

Engage the servers and eyeball the tanks, and if there's geoduck clam, get that. The restaurant will slice its long neck in the manner of sashimi and then - a phenomenal treat - fry its belly.

Order salt-and-pepper prawns, slightly sweet and not remotely greasy.

There were also disappointments, like crispy chicken with dry meat and rubbery, tasteless steamed scallops in XO sauce. Oriental Garden serves scads of diners at an often brisk clip, and the cooking sometimes reflects that.

Oriental Garden (Frank Bruni)

For discussion of Mainland, click here.

Related discussion regarding Mr. Bruni's style of reviewing and the star system can be found here.

Soba

[Eatmywords]

Had a good meal here last night with Nathan:

-Seafood bean curd soup; simple egg drop base w/a even consistency (not too thick/thin, just right), chunks of small shrimp, scallops throughout, was very good but not "oh my god". Still for $3.95 a steal.

- Steamed scallop dumplings - 3 nice size round saucers for $4.95. They were so fresh, like they stuffed the scallop in the dumpling 3 seconds before steaming. Wonderful. I could have made a meal out of 3 more orders.

- Oysters w/Blk Mushrooms and snow peas in a lt brown sc. I've never seen larger oysters in such abundance served this way. Think giant oyster, think slightly less plump than your flip cell phone, yea, that plump. Besides the size they were as fresh as the scallops and worked very well with the mushrooms. At $13.95 a major price buster.

- Steamed shredded pork and squid - the only slight disappointment. Looked like corn beef hash and presented the way you would, well present corn beef hash; shmeared on an oval plate. Not a great visual. Came with small pieces of white squid undistinguishable but somewhat tasty. $13.95(?)

The room is a bit more elegant than it's neighbors but as bright as a 7Eleven. (-I never understood this. Is it that they take so much pride they want you to really see what you're scarfing or perhaps a way to keep you alert (and agitated) and moving towards the exit upon completion?) Anyway, the service is efficient and less brisk then others. The staff seems happy which is not common in CT. I w/def go back. Hopefully with 4 or more adventurous eaters to sample the vast Cantonese options.

[Nathan]

I should add that it was shredded pork with "dried squid"...in this case the squid seemed to be used solely for texture.

it stood in negative contrast to GS's wonderful shredded pork and squid dish.

[Sneakeater]

Ate here a few nights ago for the first time in several years. Still very good. Make that very VERY good.

I ate alone, so my order was limited.

1. Crunchy Eggplant Hong Kong Style (or some such). Breaded, fried eggplant with chives and other oniony stuff on top. Excellent dish.

2. The highly-lauded "Hometown" Lobster. Boiled or steamed (I can't tell you) lobster, then apparently cracked and sauteed(?), with egg, scallion, and ginger. A simply fabulous lobster preparation.

Whenever you return to one of these places after a few years' absence, you worry about whether passing time and changing chefs have taken their toll. Not here, happily.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Daniel]

Had dinner here last night.. My girl was getting the Japanese Hair straightening thing done, so me and my buddy went down to meet her.. We didnt really know where we were going, so we were happy to come across a familiar place..

I ordered for the table.. I was really in a seafood mood so that is what I ordered..

We started with the mussles in a spicy hotpot.. I am always skeptical when the mussles are served on the half shell.. I like to see that they have opened by themselves.. But they tasted fresh but, a little over cooked.. Loved the spicy sauce..

Next we had the salt crusted shrimp.. These were really enjoyable.. Fried perfectly, salty, with no excess oil behind.. They were great..

Keeping with the fried, we ordered Canadian Crab deep fried.. I enjoyed the preparation.. Again, fried very well. Not oily or greasy.. The meat inside the shell was moist and perfect.. It was fun to sit around the table and casualy pick at the meat while talking and drinking.. I dipped mine in vinegar..

We also got a side of steamed pea shoots.. Again great with vinegar.. We also ordered pan fried noodles with beef.. A very respectable rendition..

The restaurant was enjoyable.. I really was craving seafood and I was not disappointed.. There are certainly other things to try.. After reading the thread this morning the lobster dish sounds great... There were people happily eating duck and there was a couple of Porkchop and Pork dishes I would like to try.. Also some whole fish dishes.. But this hit the spot just fine.. Service was "efficient" and the place was comfortable...

Edited March 17, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[Fat Guy]

Has anyone else been to Oriental Garden lately? We're thinking of checking it out tonight and were wondering what, in addition to the above recommendations, to order. Accepting suggestions for about two more hours . . .

[Fat Guy]

Thanks to the three of you who sent PMs with advice, I was loaded for bear at Oriental Garden. I won't out you, but maybe you'll publish your advice here for all to see?

We were advised to insist on ordering from the shorter of the two managers in business suits. This was the single most important piece of advice to be armed with. I interrogated the taller guy up front as I was perusing the fish tanks and he was relatively unhelpful. The shorter guy, however, was extremely helpful and really behaved as an advocate for us. I had arrived with a game plan, but hardly played it out at all on account of the advice we got.

We started with a triple order of steamed scallop dumplings. These were categorically the best of their kind I've ever had. They were filled with huge chunks of good quality scallops, and the skins were wonderfully thin. I think next time I go, I'll insist on an order of these (three dumplings, $3.95 per order) per person.

For our other appetizer we had a pound of the boiled live coral shrimp. We were told these were from Vancouver, which doesn't make complete sense because, you know, there are no shrimp actually living in Vancouver. Still, they were indeed almost exactly like the shrimp I remember having at several of the big Chinese seafood places in Vancouver and Richmond, so they probably came from wherever those came from. Pretty much as good as shrimp get; on par with really good shrimp from the Gulf, though different (the Vancouver ones are more langoustine-ish and less shrimp-ish). I had the first of two mishaps when, upon pulling the head off the first one, I wound up with shrimp "brains" all over my shirt. This helped the others at my table to avoid the same mistake. These were $48 per pound. We had a pound, which was maybe 20 head-on shrimp. Not cheap, but delicious. Served with the aforementioned scallion-shoyu dipping sauce.

Next, a small live lobster hacked up and, after lengthy discussion about the best preparation (they have about a million ways they can cook most any kind of seafood), sauteed with ginger and scallion and served atop E-fu noodles. This was absolutely fantastic -- the lobster itself had a very hard shell and firm, succulent flesh. The E-fu noodles and an unidentified green soaked up all the ginger, scallion and lobster flavors and got better as we worked through the dish. This was $28.95. A second mishap occurred at this juncture, when a small piece of lobster shell wedged itself between two of my molars, requiring the resources of the entire table and several advisors to remove -- we finally extracted it with the point formed by the crease of a folded-in-half straw.

After reviewing all the fish in the tank for relative merit and price -- the manager guy was very forthcoming about what he thought was overpriced and what he thought was a good value -- we ordered a two-pound green bass. I'm not exactly sure what a green bass is -- it sort of looked like a smallmouth bass but I'm no bass expert and certainly no bassmaster -- but it was a light, delicate fish and, boy, they steamed it just right. Our son PJ was particularly fond of it. He ate more than his fair share. The green bass was $24 per pound, so $48 for the dish.

We also had sauteed pea shoots with garlic. As good as that dish gets. $13.95.

All that, four beers and two bowls of white rice came to $168.25 plus $14.09 tax and a $30 tip. Surely, it's possible to eat for a lot less or a lot more, but for four adults and a baby eating a lot of seafood it wasn't all that bad. I'd expect to pay about the same for about the same meal, but not quite as good, over at Ping's. Still, at this price point it's hardly an everyday place.

We never opened a menu.

On the way out, the shorter manager guy and our waiter walked out into the street with us and we chatted a bit. I thought about breaking protocol and slipping him an eGullet Society business card -- he was definitely web-savvy -- but decided against it; maybe another time.

At one point the manager guy looked deep into PJ's eyes with a penetrating Confucian stare and announced "Ten months and one week old?" PJ was born on August 17.

Cash and Amex only, by the way. No Visa/MC.

[Todd36]

The below was my PM, it's kindof a mess. My other secret is that their dim is pretty good too:

The most important thing is to look for the manager---he's going to be wearing a suit, fairly tall, late 40's maybe. He speaks English well, most of the staff does. He is friendly, look for the friendilist guy in a suit. Taller guy in suit is not as friendly and not as helpful. There is also a very good waitress, but it is hard to describe her---maybe early 30's, also friendly. Tell him what you are interested in---and he'll provide advice, including cooking style. He told me the cooking staff is mixed, from various areas of China, it is not really a Catonese place. Good dishes include fresh scallops, those are served in their shells, several dollars a piece. Cooked plainly, but very good. You'll see them, and other interesting seafood as you walk in. Steamed shrimp by the pound are also good, very plain, do have to peel and clean them yourself, many tables get them. Razor claim in black bean sauce is very good. Also, any kind of crab, but that can get expensive. Basically, you see what looks good and alive when you walk in, and then ask what are good ways to cook and how much does it cost. Avoid anything on the menu that looks American. Peking Duck was however quite good the one time I got it. Tofu with crabmeat is better than what you get elsewhere, it actually contains crabmeat. They also do a good job with lobster. Their dumplings are also lighter than most. Abolone is also good, if they have it. Warning, they only take American Express and cash. Also, it can get expensive depending on what you order. But bascially, I would find the manager, order some scallops and razor claims, and ask him what else is good today and how he would cook it. They also do a good job with things like bok choi and other fresh vegetables. Just order them stir fried or plain. Noodle dishes are also good.

[Fat Guy]

It probably would have made sense for me just to ask the managers' names. Woops. In any event, to keep enhancing the descriptions here, one manager is tall, thin, I guess you'd say delicate or elegant, and maybe 5'10" tall (I'll bring a tape measure next time too). The other one -- the one you want to deal with -- is more in the 5'5" neighborhood and is more substantial, with a more gruff appearance.

[Sneakeater]

Thanks to Todd for some of the most useful info I've ever gotten from this board. Really, just great.

[markk]

Having wanted to go here for quite some time, we took advantage of the traffic-free holiday weekend and snuck in from NJ and parked a few paces from the restaurant, and had one of the best meals of our lives...

We also started with the superb Scallop Dumplings (thank you, Fat Guy) and snuck in some SuiMei, Har Gao, ChewChow and Seafood with Pea Shoots dumplings, one better than the next, all exemplary. But the colossal Soft Shell Crabs in the fridge on the way in called to us (literally, they waved to us) so we had a few of those - clearly the best we've ever had, salt and pepper fried to sheer and utter perfection.

If we were two normal people (which we're not, that's why we're Gulletteers) we might have stopped there, but nooooo...

We had been craving lobster, and when we arrived, engaged the Suit by the register (there was only one on duty) as to the size of the largest ones they had, which he believed to be 3 1/2 or 4 pounders, and as we spoke, he explained every wonderful looking dish that went by.

Finally when we sat and they showed us their largest lobster, which they said was a 3.5 pounder, we didn't think it would do, so I went back to the tanks and we settled on two 2.5 pounders, which we wanted done with ginger and scallion.

No to be! The fellow in the suit said to me "two lobsters is a great choice - I'll make one with ginger and scallion, and the other one with egg and black beans over noodles for you!" Well, I didn't think my partner would go for that and said I had to check, and the Suit said "Oh, surprise him!" Well, the dual preparations were approved, and Mr. Suit gave me two thumbs up as I conveyed this from our nearby table. And let the feast begin...

At this point, the dim sum and the softshells arrived, and we began our ascent into heaven.

Then the first lobster arrived, and I would say that it was just an ethereal version of the true Cantonese version with ground pork, egg, and black bean (merely a hint), over Lo Mein - and we lost our minds from how delicious this was. The lobster itself was succulent and sweet and juicy. But then came Lobster #2, and indeed it was in the most delicious ginger and scallion sauce I ever had, over a bed of the lightest and most hauntingly delicious chow fun I've ever tasted! We kept going back from one to the other, unable to decide or stop evaluating.

With this came a platter of pea shoots sauteed to perfection with garlic.

If I didn't make this clear, everything was sublime, subtle and intriguing and the comment "it's like tasting this dish for the first time" was uttered at my table more than once, and the service was simply great, including various waiters who walked by, and ran for various little bowls and plates so they could offer us tastes of the dishes we hadn't yet gotten to without crowding up our table.

Cleverly, we had brought some delicious Alsace Pinot Gris to go with our pig-out feast.

And one of the nicest things about going into an overeating stupor fueled by much wine is that you remember such things you've read and filed away, like...

It probably would have made sense for me just to ask the managers' names. Woops. In any event, to keep enhancing the descriptions here, one manager is tall, thin, I guess you'd say delicate or elegant, and maybe 5'10" tall (I'll bring a tape measure next time too). The other one -- the one you want to deal with -- is more in the 5'5" neighborhood and is more substantial, with a more gruff appearance.

←

...so when the meal was over I waddled to the counter, shook the hand of the Suit who arranged our feast, and said "That was wonderful - what's your name?" and he answered, "Choy". (I am assuming he is the shorter of the two, by the way. But I'm told this morning that he's much taller than 5'5" [indeed he was tall] - and I cannot imagine that he was the "less" helpful host!)

But he immediately began planning the menu for our return visit, and I'm keeping him!

[Todd36]

The manager I was talking about is named "Choi". He told me tonight that he's been working at Oriental Garden for 23 years. I stopped there tonight for a quick dinner with a friend.

Pea Shoot and Seafood dumplings. The best I've had in NY, better to be had in SF.

Two softshell crabs (they were alive in front as we walked in). Deep fried with garlic. Choi's recomendation. $8 each. Very good.

Steamed sea bass, with ginger and scallions. Very good, but not as exciting as the crabs.

We wanted a noodle dish, and Choi said get the lo mein, which I thought odd. It was very good lo mein (chicken and scallion BTW). Very little use of oil.

Prior to tip but with tax, $61 for two. It was a fairly light meal. They get all of 75 cents for a bowl of rice.

[weinoo]

No posts about this place for a while, so I figured I'd bump it up, as today we went for lunch and were surprised that they offer some of the best dim sum I've had in Manhattan...they have a few carts, but also waitstaff carrying items out of the kitchen as well as a menu you can order dim sum from.

We tried a number of different dumplings - all good, one in particular had a delicious delicate skin and was filled with shrimp and greens - all the dumplings were nicely prepared. Sticky rice with lap chung was good as were the spareribs steamed with black beans. We also ordered soft shell crabs (which were on display in the refrigerated case in the front of the restaurant) salt & pepper style - a great dish and a reasonable $8.95 for 1 nice sized crab.

We dropped about $40 for an extremely tasty and filling lunch and I can't wait to go back to try some of the other offerings!

[Pan]

Mitch, I've gone there twice in the last few months for dim sum. The first time was Christmas day and the second time was a couple of weeks ago. On Christmas, I thought it was generally very worthwhile and a level or two up from standard big-eating-hall stuff (Jing Fong, Golden Unicorn, Harmony Palace). The second time, I thought it was on about the same level as the big eating halls. So I think they may be inconsistent. I think dim sum at Dim Sum Go Go is much better, though - thinner wrappers, less doughy, cooked to order, and less fatty. For the record, I've been to DSGG twice for dim sum, too (both times within the past month or so).

[markk]

No posts about this place for a while, so I figured I'd bump it up,

That's so funny (to me) as I was positive I posted photos from a meal we had here two weeks ago, but I never did.

We started with several of the dim sum, and they were delicious.

Then, from the impeccable seafood refrigerators

we started with a platter of soft shell crabs that were simply outstanding - much better than any I've had in Chinatown (I've had them here before just as delicious)

and some outstanding sauteed pea leaves

We also had the Lobster with the "Country Sauce" over noodles

This was a little disappointing in that it was a little dry, the lobster and the noodles. I had wanted a large lobster (in the 3 pound range) but the manager Choy talked me out of it, saying that the "standard" 1.75 pound lobster was a much, much better deal. But it wasn't as succulent as the jumbo ones we had last time.

However, being gluttons, we felt the need for another platter of soft shells, the only difference this time being the shape of the plate and the fact that they may have served them a tad out of focus

But all in all another great meal here. The Chinese family next to us was having the Roasted Squab, and I think that I must try that next time!