What do you think "artisanal" means?

[Jason Perlow]

Tropicana, with Pulp.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Then it couldn't possibly be artisanal. You would need unusual varieties of organically grown oranges that were hand squeezed. I'm afraid you have just plain old phlegm.

[Mottmott]

In the 60's and 70's calling food "artisan," "natural," "organic," etc. made them "hippy-dippy"; today they're trendy, yuppy, and marketed.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Apropos of this thread, there is a terrific piece written on the A.O.C. designation system for wines in France on the Joe Dressner site. It was written on 11/1 so you have to scroll to the bottom of the first page and then click on older posts and it's the first one on the second page. For those of you who don't know him, Joe is a wine importer with a large portfolio of wines from the Loire Valley. I would have asked him if he would let me reprint the piece here except he's away on vacation. But the article outlines just a few of the problems that arise when objective standards are administered by a group of people.

[Peter B Wolf]

..... But as a practical matter,  people can usually taste the difference betwen a commercially made product and a hand made product and they use artisanal to describe the latter.

I am little late posting here, but Steve, I think you are way off with the above statement, or all the people you know really can "usually" taste that difference. I do not believe this is so usual with most average 'people' (in the US - or anywhere else - just more so here). Maybe a lot of eGulletiers, but I am willing to pick the ones from previous posts who can.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Peter - Sorry I didn't mean to imply that the average Joe can do it, I mean it to say that people who care about the difference will usually be able to tell. In fact I am amazed sometimes at my wine friends and their ability when tasting a wine that they are able to tell if the slightest bit of the process was commercialized.

[Nick]

Artisanal means made by an artisan. The artisan is an individual who may, or may not, be crazy but who cares about what they are doing. The result of their work may be excellent, fairly good, or not worth having been done.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Here we go again. It also means, "exhibits the qualities of a product normally associated with artisans." But then who is being picky.

[Nick]

Steve, once again you amaze me. I was defining an artisan. That's all, and having fun at the same time. Being an artisan myself.

Jezuss, I sure wouldn't want to be sitting next to your table.

[jaybee]

You are to understand, that for above seventy Moons past there have been two struggling Parties in this Empire, under the Names of Tramecksan the artisan shoe makers and Slamecksan the schlemiel shoe makers , from the high and low Heels on their shoes, by which they distinguish themselves. It is alleged indeed, that the high Heels are most agreeable to our ancient Constitution: But however this be, his Majesty has determined to make use of only low Heels in the Administration of the Government, and all Offices in the Gift of the Crown, as you cannot but observe; and particularly, that his Majesty's Imperial Heels are lower at least by a Drurr than any of his Court; (Drurr is a Measure about the fourteenth Part of an Inch). The Animositys between these two Parties run so high, that they will neither eat nor drink, nor talk with each other. We compute the Tramecksan, or artisan shoe makers High-Heels, to exceed us in number; and they charge at least 500 semolians for their hand made shoes but the Power is wholly on our schlemeil drek makers Side whose shoes look hand made but cost 50 semolians and come from the Isle of Nike, to the south. We apprehend his Imperial Highness, the Heir to the Crown, to have some Tendency towards the High-Heels; at least we can plainly discover one of his Heels higher than the other, which gives him a Hobble in his Gait. such that he is secretly referred to as a half assed artisan

with apologies to JS

[Wilfrid]

Just in case anyone thinks I don't have an opinion: I tend to think that the meaning of a word and how it is used are pretty closely related, and I see "artisanal" being used fairly loosely. I don't see a strict definition, but I would expect, very broadly, an artisanal product - whether food or not - to be small batch production from an independent producer. There may be exceptions to that, but that's my broad expectation.

It follows that artisanal products will often be good products, just because they are being made on a small scale and probably by someone who cares about the end result. But there is no guarantee that they will be good products.

Edited December 3, 2002 by Wilfrid (log)

[Ron Johnson]

"Artisanal" refers to products offered for sale to the general public with no warranty as to their merchantibility or fitness for a particular purpose.

Edited December 3, 2002 by ron johnson (log)

[Toby]

Just came across this in Artisan Baking Across America by Maggie Glezer: "What is 'Artisan Bread'? When I tell people that I have written a book about artisan bread baking, I always get a quizzical look -- what is artisan bread (as it has come to be called, no one being able to pronounce artisanal)? .... I decided to conduct a poll among some well-respected bakers to see what their definitions might offer. ...They all agreed on one thing: For bread to be considered 'artisan,' at least one part of its production must be performed by hand.... More difficult to define is the level of quality implied by the term, the concern for the color and flavor of the bread's flour, and for the naturally arising flavors conjured by careful craftsmanship."