gyuto techniques?

[camdan]

Hi,

I recently acquired a 10" Tojiro DP Gyuto. Aside from not whacking it down onto my chopping board, or trying to cut through bones, how exactly should my technique differ from using a Western knife?

[Shalmanese]

A Gyuto is a western style knife so you use pretty much exactly the same techniques.

[Dakki]

Mostly you'll go from a viselike grip to force the blade through, to gently guiding the edge as it does its work.

That'll come with experience. Just use (and enjoy) your new knife.

[paulraphael]

Some people use a gyuto just like a western chef's knife. Others sharpen to a more acute bevel angle than you can use with western techniques; they use techniques that are a hybrid between western techniques and Japanese usuba techniques. The advantage to the first approach is that you already know how to do it.

The advantage to the second is that you will have more control, will make better quality cuts, do so with less cutting effort, and have better edge retention. The disadvantage is that you have to learn new skills, and you'll have a knife that's too fragile to lend to the average joe.

Edited May 19, 2010 by paulraphael (log)

[camdan]

I have an EdgePro Apex and used it to put the lowest angle I could on it - 24 degree I think, which was a bit lower than the factory set. It cuts far better than anything else I've used, which seems to be both a combination of the finer edge and the blade being 2" longer than the knife I used to use. I've got a book on Japanese cooking which talks a bit about knife skills so I'll see what they say about using the usuba and try to pick up some skills.

Dan

[BKYLN]

I have an EdgePro Apex and used it to put the lowest angle I could on it - 24 degree I think, which was a bit lower than the factory set. It cuts far better than anything else I've used, which seems to be both a combination of the finer edge and the blade being 2" longer than the knife I used to use. I've got a book on Japanese cooking which talks a bit about knife skills so I'll see what they say about using the usuba and try to pick up some skills.

Dan

Um...you definitely want to go the other way in terms of angle. Try something more like 12 degrees. 24 is way too obtuse for a Japanese knife...I wouldn't even do my Messermeister (that I use for tough jobs) at 24 degrees.

[paulraphael]

The best bevel angles depend on both the knife in question and the user. Some knife steels can handle much thinner edges than others. So can some cooks. It's best to thin the knife gradually and see what you can get away with. If you start rolling or chipping the edge, it's either time to refine your skills, or else fatten up the edge with a microbevel.

A few thoughts ...

It's difficult to know the exact bevel angles of a knife. An edge pro gives you approximations; freehand sharpening gives you wild guesses.

Asymmetry is another factor. A highly asymmetrical edge (like one ground 90% on the front side, 10% on the back, will have the performance and fragility of a symmetrical edge ground at more obtuse angles.

In these conversations, make sure you're not confusing the total (or included angle) with the angle of each individual bevel. A typical German knife is ground 20 to 22 degrees on a side, which gives a 40 to 44 degree included angle. A typical Japanese knife is ground 15 degrees on each side, for a 30 degree included angle. These factory angles give you very durable edges.

People with high end knives sometimes go as low as a 15 degree included angle, with lots of asymmetry. But you can not use a knife like this without very careful techniques. No rock chopping, no pushing hard, no lending the knife to riffraff.

Edited May 20, 2010 by paulraphael (log)

[camdan]

Sorry, when I said 24 I meant the included angle. I think the factory edge was about 30.

[scubadoo97]

The lowest notch on my EdgePro Apex is listed as 10*. I recently dropped the edge on my 240 Tojiro gyuto down to around 10 degrees per side. I started with the EdgePro but then went free hand as it was taking a lot of time to remove that much metal. I used a DMT 8XC and wish I had an XXC. The knife has a whole new feel to it. Cuts into yams without wedging as it did before.