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Chocolate Chantilly

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I don't think you've created a mess. I think you've created a formula that is simple and clear, and different from the approximately 2 parts water to 1 part cocoa butter that is implied in the original This recipe in the first post in the topic.

I will do my next batch with the 3 parts water to 1 part cocoa butter as you suggest. For another 55 gram block of Sharffenberger, I'll use 68 grams of water.

Fortunately, the small practice batches are easy to make disappear, even when not perfectly textured. Remelt, add some milk and spice, and voilà, hot chocolate!

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Teo thanks for being patient and giving such detailed replies.

I am using Callebaut 811NV Dark Chocolate and it says on the label 53.8% as the minimum cocoa solids. What I need to be looking for is the % of Fat instead of this correct?


Edited by Varun Sheth (log)

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What I need to be looking for is the % of Fat instead of this correct?

Yes, I think I have that part right.

I cannot find a 'nutrition facts' type of label for that on the Callebaut site to make things simple, and per their brochure they appear to have a range of different cocoa butter contents with very similar labelling--most with another letter in front of the NV. But there is nothing that gives the grams of cocoa butter for the different viscosities they sell.

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I am using Callebaut 811NV Dark Chocolate and it says on the label 53.8% as the minimum cocoa solids. What I need to be looking for is the % of Fat instead of this correct?

53.8% (as minimum cocoa solids) indicates the total amount of the ingredients derived from the cocoa fruit, which are cocoa butter and cocoa mass (not sure if "cocoa mass" is the correct definition in English, I'm meaning the dry part). So the sum of cocoa butter + cocoa mass is the 53.8% in this brand of chocolate. The remaining 46.2% is constituted by the other ingredients (mostly sugar, then usually vanilla and lecitine).

So that 53.8% does not indicate the amount of cocoa fat in that chocolate, it indicates the total amount of ingredients coming from the cocoa fruit. The cocoa fat is a fraction of this 53.8%, usually the ratio of the cocoa fat ranges from about 55% to 60% on the total amount of cocoa parts. So in this case it should be about 57% * 53.8% = 30.7%, but this is just an estimation.

To be sure you must look on the label for the specification about the nutritional contents (carbos, proteins and fats): the % of fat indicates the % of cocoa butter in that chocolate. We are talking about quality chocolate, where the only fat is the cocoa butter, no other crappy veg fats.

Usually every producer writes the nutritional contents on their labels, so since Callebaut is a serious producer then I'm pretty sure you will find this info on the label. Personally I'm a Valrhona fanboy, so I can't be of any help about Callebaut. In the case you can't find that data on the label, I'm sure that writing an e-mail to Callebaut will provide you a quick and precise answer.

Teo


Teo

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Much better this time! 55 grams of 70% scharffenberger, 23 grams of fat, with 68 grams of water, and a sprinkle of cinnamon and chili. The texture at room temperature is soft, and it melts right in my mouth. Very, very nice!

5500754103_bcd98a2712.jpg

This one shows how dark the original chocolate was

5500752751_2a28969beb.jpg

And this close up shows the texture

5500751241_7ff9a500c5.jpg

Does this seem like an appropriate increase in volume?

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Hey everyone,

I've been experimenting with some chocolate chantilly recipes, they're really great and it also freezes nicely to something-like-ice cream. I was looking to try and find a more neutral tasting fat base rather than chocolate, so the flavour of the liquid would be maximising. I came across this recipe for beurre chantilly/chantilly butter, but struggled to make it. I was wondering if anyone had any experience of making this, or knew of other fat bases that could be used to make the mousse?

EDIT: forget the recipe links!

http://www.pierre-gagnaire.com/francais/modernite/2003/chantilly.htm

http://www.pierre-gagnaire.com/francais/humeur/recette-tomate_chantilly.htm

In French but google translate works well


Edited by rjchew (log)

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Milk fat in the form of soft cheeses (such as Brie) and foie gras fat have reportedly been used in the past, though I've never had enough extra foie kicking around to give it a whirl. It seems to me the other important factor is an emulsifier: chocolate, for example, already has lecithin included as an ingredient. I'm not sure a pure fat would work (though I believe butter has natural emulsifiers in it, too). I tried it once with deodorized cocoa butter, and couldn't get it to work.


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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As chance would have it, I just made this for the first time last night. I used the recipe quoted at the beginning of the thread, (200 g water/225 g chocolate), but first read the directions here: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/recipes/2008/02/13/chocolate-chantilly/. One of the hints from the article that I believe helped my beginners success was to whip on ice, but remove from ice while it is still a little loose, then whip off ice until it has reached the desired texture. This likely achieves the same result of not overchilling the chocolate as just whipping after refrigerating as someone upthread suggested but fits in better with my impatience/erratic refrigerator.

I made it with chocolate of unknown provenance (actually, from my neighbors' basement, labelled 62% chocolate, given to me in a trade for loquats) and the texture was outstanding. Extraordinary melt-in-your mouth capabilities, and very mousse-like at Northern California room temperatures.

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Thanks for bumping this thread up -- it inspired me to try it tonight. Made it with 90 grams of Callebaut 60%, which I figured was around 1/3rd fat content, so 30 grams of fat. I added another 90 grams of liquid to that -- almost all water, with one tablespoon of grand marnier. Worked like a charm -- whipped into basically the consistency of thicker whipped cream (not quite as airy a mousse as the photos posted by others here, but still a pretty great consistency. Super super rich though. Very cool trick!

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I tried this out tonight on a whim. 120 grams of 60% Callebaut Thick Bittersweet Bits and 90 grams of cold water. I added a little cinnamon and chipotle powder to the melted chocolate. Whipped until thickened (no bowl of ice needed) and it turned out great. Next time I will whip it a little longer to get it slightly more firm, but it was a hit. Most people probably wouldn't even know it is just a water/chocolate mixture.


Andrew Vaserfirer aka avaserfi

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When preparing chocolate, the one hard-and-fast rule is to avoid adding water. Even ambient moisture can make pounds of gourmet chocolate permanently sieze, leaving a horrible grainy mess. The only way I know to fix it is to add huge amounts of coconut cream, which makes a sort of rubbery truffle.

However, I've seen several recipes for a chocolate "chantilly cream", consisting of chocolate and water, milk, or orange juice which are blended together. In theory, this shouldn't work; in reality, it looks excellent. Is this dependent on the emulsifiers in the chocolate, or is it a manual emulsion via whipping? Also, does anyone know if it works with white chocolate and/or an iSi whip?

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Chocolate doesn't like a little moisture. When a large amount comes barging in, the chocolate admits defeat and does what it's told.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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Chocolate doesn't like a little moisture. When a large amount comes barging in, the chocolate admits defeat and does what it's told.

Precisely. Pure chocolate is a system of solids suspended in fat. A little liquid doesn't fit into the equation, so the chocolate seizes. Add enough liquid, and you then have a system of fat and solids suspended in liquid. There is nothing magic about coconut cream to make ganache out of seized chocolate, it's just a matter of enough liquid, any liquid.

I think of chocolate chantilly cream as essentially replicating dairy heavy cream. Whipping cream is around 36-40% fat, as is couverture chocolate. If you mix 100g Cacao Barry Fleur de Cao at 41.8% fat with 100 g water, voila, you have the equivalent fat of heavy cream plus some cocoa solids and sugar. It does work in an ISI whip. I have not tried white chocolate, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.


Edited by pastrygirl (log)

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Thats why its possible to make yummy hot chocolate. It would be a different story if you put a half oz of milk into a mass of chocolate.

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Oh you bastards. I googled this chantilly thing and now I want it! But I'm in a country where there isn't a particularly wide range of different chocolates easily available, and certainly this little town doesn't have much beyond a bit of Cadbury's. Will it work with Bournville? I know I can get that....otherwise I think I may have seen some kind of 70% Cadbury's but I'm pretty sure it had almonds and things in it so that won't work. Damn you all!

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Oh you bastards. I googled this chantilly thing and now I want it! But I'm in a country where there isn't a particularly wide range of different chocolates easily available, and certainly this little town doesn't have much beyond a bit of Cadbury's. Will it work with Bournville? I know I can get that....otherwise I think I may have seen some kind of 70% Cadbury's but I'm pretty sure it had almonds and things in it so that won't work. Damn you all!

Should work with the Bournville.

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Thanks for the explanation.

Precisely. Pure chocolate is a system of solids suspended in fat. A little liquid doesn't fit into the equation, so the chocolate seizes. Add enough liquid, and you then have a system of fat and solids suspended in liquid. There is nothing magic about coconut cream to make ganache out of seized chocolate, it's just a matter of enough liquid, any liquid.

Coconut cream (as removed from the top of the can of coconut milk) is at least 70% fat, and you don't need much to get the chocolate to re-emulsify. It's theoretically possible to do the same thing with butter to save a ganache, but I've never been able to pull it off.


Edited by jrshaul (log)

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For what it's worth, there is very little emulisifiers in chocolate.

True, there is soy lecithin in most couvertures,* but this is added in dosages of under .5%. The main reason soy lecethin is added is not to "emulsify", (you need water phase to make an emulsion, and there is no, "0%", diddly squat, water in chocolate), but in small amounts, this dosage of soy lecthin mimics the addition of more cocoa butter. In other words, it is added to make the chocolate more fluid. If dosages exceed .5% the chocolate thickens up waaay too much.

* Some of the real expensive couvertures, a.k.a. Cluizel, Felchlin, etc, have no soy lecethin added. The couverture is expensive enought that more cocoa butter can be added for fluid properties.

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Why not use a higher quality chocolate, i.e. one that has a higher percentage of cocoa and less sugar for flavour boosting?

I am highly suspicious of any chocolate extracts, as I am highly suspicious of "wine extracts"

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To make chocolate extract, get some grain alcohol. EverClear is one brand. I use the 190 proof because it's available in my state. In some states, you may only have access to the 151 proof, which I have not tested.

I usually use about 8 ounces of EverClear to 2 oz of chocolate. You can experiment with types. I freeze the chocolate so that it's easier to handle, then I grate it with a fine Microplane. Mix the two together and store at room temperature, under 80 degrees for a few weeks, shaking the mix every day.

It will get cloudy, I have not been able to fix this even though I have tested several types of filtration, the clouds keep coming back. But, no one cares when you just cook with it. Anyway, just strain and use. I often just keep the chocolate in the jar, since it sinks to the bottom and is presumably adding flavor.

I have tested this process (as part of making chocolate liqueur which has repeatedly failed due to cloudiness) with cocoa and found that chocolate gave a much better flavor. The ones made with cocoa seemed one-dimensional and flat, the ones with chocolate were far more complex. I think the alcohol pulls some flavor compounds from the cocoa butter. I tried some very good cocoas: several Guittards, and a couple other high end samples I received at trade shows. It was just never as good as the chocolate from the same manufacturer.

Anyway, I use Felchlin Grand Cru now because I like it and have access to it.

The end product is a high-alcohol pure flavor that can be added to various things to give chocolate flavor or boost chocolate flavor. Be aware that if you want to taste it, you should water down your tasting sample so that you don't 'burn' your mouth. Never drink pure grain alcohol as it can kill the cells in the mouth and throat causing a great deal of damage.

Hope this helps!

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To make chocolate extract, get some grain alcohol. EverClear is one brand. I use the 190 proof because it's available in my state. In some states, you may only have access to the 151 proof, which I have not tested.

I usually use about 8 ounces of EverClear to 2 oz of chocolate. You can experiment with types. I freeze the chocolate so that it's easier to handle, then I grate it with a fine Microplane. Mix the two together and store at room temperature, under 80 degrees for a few weeks, shaking the mix every day.

It will get cloudy, I have not been able to fix this even though I have tested several types of filtration, the clouds keep coming back. But, no one cares when you just cook with it. Anyway, just strain and use. I often just keep the chocolate in the jar, since it sinks to the bottom and is presumably adding flavor.

I have tested this process (as part of making chocolate liqueur which has repeatedly failed due to cloudiness) with cocoa and found that chocolate gave a much better flavor. The ones made with cocoa seemed one-dimensional and flat, the ones with chocolate were far more complex. I think the alcohol pulls some flavor compounds from the cocoa butter. I tried some very good cocoas: several Guittards, and a couple other high end samples I received at trade shows. It was just never as good as the chocolate from the same manufacturer.

Anyway, I use Felchlin Grand Cru now because I like it and have access to it.

The end product is a high-alcohol pure flavor that can be added to various things to give chocolate flavor or boost chocolate flavor. Be aware that if you want to taste it, you should water down your tasting sample so that you don't 'burn' your mouth. Never drink pure grain alcohol as it can kill the cells in the mouth and throat causing a great deal of damage.

Hope this helps!

Wonder how this would work with chocolate nibs?

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