Cooking Stocks

[Kerouac1964]

Nickn --

Please post your tasting notes on the organic chicken broth. It sounds like a better alternative that I'd like to follow up on. Last weekend I made a pot of organic chili from a dry starter mix from Bear Creek. Very tasty. And I stretched it by two more servings with a can of low sodium chicken broth .

I am in the canned stock camp. I use low-sodium chicken/beef broth. Then I spice things up with my own seasonings. I make a quick Pho base that I use over a few days at a time, before making another batch.

I envy the scratch stock makers. I especially like the idea of concentrated ice cubes. Very clever idea.

I hope to start making my own scratch stocks when I get in my induction hot plate. I have a very, very tight living space and do the majority of my cooking with a rice/cooker, and a simple 1 quart hot pot by steaming.

[Suzanne F]

I cover this question like a cloche: I come down on all sides of it. Yes, I make my own stocks and keep them in the freezer (one-cup or larger for soups, ice-cube size for pan sauces). But sometimes I start them with packaged broth (Swanson's Natural Goodness, or Imagine, or Health Valley) if I want a really strong stock but don't have quite enough bones and scraps. If I really want the flavor of the stock to inform the dish, there's nothing like real stock.

I have been known to use cubes or powders (Knorr, for example), but not for "stocks" -- only for flavoring rice as it cooks. The only exception there is Knorr Tom Yam Bouillon Cubes: I love them for making SE Asian soupy-dishes.

[snowangel]

I have been known to use cubes or powders (Knorr, for example), but not for "stocks" -- only for flavoring rice as it cooks.  The only exception there is Knorr Tom Yam Bouillon Cubes: I love them for making SE Asian soupy-dishes.

So I'm not the only one...

[Suzanne F]

I have been known to use cubes or powders (Knorr, for example), but not for "stocks" -- only for flavoring rice as it cooks.  The only exception there is Knorr Tom Yam Bouillon Cubes: I love them for making SE Asian soupy-dishes.

So I'm not the only one...

Do you mean the Tom Yam cubes? And you grew up eating the "authentic" thing. Then they really must be good!!

[torakris]

I have been known to use cubes or powders (Knorr, for example), but not for "stocks" -- only for flavoring rice as it cooks.  The only exception there is Knorr Tom Yam Bouillon Cubes: I love them for making SE Asian soupy-dishes.

So I'm not the only one...

Cool!

Something else to look for.

Do they sell these at most supermarkets?

[Suzanne F]

I get them in a Thai grocery in NYC's Chinatown. 3 for $1!!! Each cube makes 1 liter of broth.

[Nick]

Nickn --

Please post your tasting notes on the organic chicken broth.  It sounds like a better alternative that I'd like to follow up on.  

I have a very, very tight living space and do the majority of my cooking with a rice/cooker, and a simple 1 quart hot pot by steaming.

I'll do that after I've tried it. In the meanwhile maybe Suzanne could comment as she's mentioned using Imagine.

This whole thing got me to pull out Michael Field's Cooking School since it has excellent recipes and recommendations for stocks. He has several pages on "improving canned broths"; page 37 in original edition.

To improve canned chicken stock -

4 cups canned, undiluted chicken stock, all surface fat removed

1/2 cup sliced onions

1/4 cup coarsely chopped celery

1 leek, white part only, thinly sliced

4 sprigs parsley

1/2 small bay leaf

1/4 teaspoon thyme

Combine ingredients in a heavy 2 qt. saucepan, bring to a boil, reduce heat to the barest simmer and cook, half covered, for at least half an hour. Skim when necessary. Strain through a fine sieve before using.

Edit: I like that he said "1/2 small bay leaf" So many recipes just say bay leaf with no indication of size. If you haven't seen this cookbook try to find a copy. If you already have it, it's worth looking at it again.

Edited November 19, 2002 by Nickn (log)

[Human Bean]

About Imagine and other aseptic boxed broths:

Around here, there are two boxed broths available, Imagine and Pacific Organic. Both are 'organic, free-range' and are reduced-sodium (570 mg per cup, compared to 980 mg for the regular stuff). I remembered from awhile ago that I liked one of them, and the other had a somewhat strange taste that I didn't like. I've bought both again more recently, though I didn't take notes or do a comparative tasting. Both were used in different weeks to do a quick chicken soup (broth, veg, frozen grilled chk. breast, pasta or rice, spices) on nights where I was too tired/lazy to actually cook. I'm not sure which one I'd previously objected to, but the Pacific Organic was distinctly cloudy out of the box, and that offended my aesthetic sensibilities; I think it was the one I didn't like before.

So, give Imagine a try, I guess; I don't think it's notably worse than Swanson low-sodium canned broth, and may be better.

[pjs]

Nickn, I've never tried roasting the chicken bits beforehand. I would think it adds a nice flavor.

If you don't like skimming your chicken stock forever as it cooks try this tip I gleaned from Pierre Franey--most likely common knowlege in France. Before starting your stock put your bones and whatnot into the stockpot and cover with cold water. Heat until it comes to a boil. Immediately drain in a colander and rinse with cold water--then proceed with making your stock.

PJ

[Nick]

So, give Imagine a try, I guess; I don't think it's notably worse than Swanson low-sodium canned broth, and may be better.

HB, I guess that says it all.

PJ, Thanks for the tip. On those rare occasions that I get around making stock though, I like the skimming part. Got me a good skimmer and keep a hawkeye on that foam just so I can use it.

[snowangel]

There was a post on a different thread awhile ago that suggested browning the, in this case, thighs and legs before adding to the stock. Tried this? Sounds good.

If I'm using raw chicken/bones, sometimes I roast bones, sometimes not. Roasting adds color, and seems to impart a little something different.

But, we often do roast chicken ala Marcella Hazan, and the carcas always goes into the stock pot. If you get a pre-roasted chicken, there's no reason not to add that carcas to the stock, either.

I believe, from different threads, that there are those who are pro-roasting bones and those that consider this bastardization. I just do whatever I feel like that day.

Stopped at my local butcher's today to get some bacon and kielbasa, and he was glad to see me -- I now have 15 lbs. of assorted beef bones (shins, shanks, knuckles, etc.) in the freezer; I will make stock with these just as soon as I can use my kitchen again; these were freebies! He also had a nice bag of bacon ends which he let me have for $.49/lb. Pays to get to know your butcher.

[Suzanne F]

The January 2003 issue of Fine Cooking has a comparison of canned chicken broths. Unfortunately not available on their website (here).

Let's face it, for the modern home cook, canned chicken broth is a valuable convenience. ... We chose products that are widely available in supermarkets and health-food stores across the country.  For brands that offer more than one chicken broth product, we chose the low-salt version. ...

And the winners are:

Top pick: Swanson Natural Goodness -- "The most authentic chicken flavor -- well balanced with subtle vegetal notes and a rounded consistency ... Brand-new and a truly improved formula (we tasted the 'old' version too)."

#2: Pritikin Fat-Free -- "Overall, this broth was a fine option, although most tasters wanted a more assertive chicken flavor...."

#3: Pacific Organic -- "Adding salt helped to draw out a subtle chicken essence in this somwhat pale, thin broth ...."

#4: Health Valley Fat-Free -- "This brownish-gold broth didn't taste off-putting, but ... it just didn't assert much chicken flavor either. ... The salt level was adequate if not slightly too high."

#5: Campbell's Low Sodium -- "Tasted straight, this broth had a subtle chicken essence reminiscent of white meat. ... Taster complaints included a watery consistency and an oily top layer."

#6: Kitchen Basics -- Robust and sweetly vegetal, but not especially chickeny in flavor. ...t was quite salty and was considered too distinct for cooking a risotto or pasta, for example."

#7: Imagine Organic -- "This product was the least reminiscent of chicken broth ... Few tasters picked up any hint of chicken. ..."

[SobaAddict70]

you forgot College Inn, which if I have used on occasion in the past, although not in recent memory.

SA

[torakris]

Back to the Knorr Tom Yam cubes for a minute.

I have been looking for these at quite a few online sites and have been unable to find them, does anyone know an online source for these?

Also what do they taste like like? Is it basically a chicken flavor or is it already spicy, sour, sweet, etc?

[Suzanne F]

you forgot College Inn, which if I have used on occasion in the past, although not in recent memory.

SA

'Twas not I doing the testing -- it was the folks at Fine Cooking magazine (based in Connecticut). But I probably would place College Inn somewhere down in the "not much chicken flavor" range -- even though that used to be my standard. I usually use their #1 pick, Swanson Natural Goodness. It really IS pretty damn good -- at least as a base.

Torakris: the Tom Yam cubes are pretty much simply salty, hot, sweetish, and sour. The ingredients in English say: Salt, Palm Oil, chili powder, sugar, soy sauce, lemongrass, citrus leaf, lemon juice, msg. The list in Thai seems to include 2 more items, but since I can't read it, I have no idea what they are. In fact, most of the printing on the package is in Thai, so to me it's simply a piece of artwork.

[mixmaster b]

I have tried the Imagine a few times and I don't like the flavor. I agree with Cook's that it doesn't have a chicken taste. I think the Swanson's is much tastier. It's too bad, because I'd prefer to use an organic product.

I made a remouillage from the bones, etc. when I made pho a few weeks back, but I was winging it. Any tips for next time?

What is remouillage?

In the freezer I've got chicken, duck, and beef stock I've made but I never seem to remember to get it out in time to thaw before cooking. Gotta get my shit together I guess.  

IMHO, defrosting stock and other frozen items is one of the only decent uses for a microwave. I would never eat any of the frozen stuff (except ice cream and very cold gin) if it weren't for the old "auto defrost" button, beacuse I would NEVER remember to take it out to thaw!

[Suzanne F]

Remouillage is the "second boiling" of the solids with which one has made stock. After the original batch of stock is drained off, water is added to cover the remaining bones, etc. and that is then cooked down again (sometimes with additional aromatics). The two liquids are usually mixed and further reduced, since the second stock will be considerably weaker.

Who needs a nuker for thawing stock? Just throw it in a pot and melt it that way! Probably not any slower. Not that one can't use the microwave; I just don't see the need.

[sng sling]

I use (gasp!) Maggi boullion cubes and am pretty happy with them (since I know no different).

However since I am going to the US for a month long visit in 2 weeks, I would like to know if there are any decent concentrates/ cubes out there.

I am not about to take home a bunch of cans in my suitcase and don't have too much money to spend.

Anything you guys like?

Kris:

I lived in Japan for a long time and know whereof you speak!

I confess that homemade stock is a rare occasion in my house. Our staples are dashi -- just got a refill of great ingredients from my wife's Tokyo trip last week. For Western stocks and sauces, I like the "MoreThanGourmet" brand. I order them online and pick them up at my parents' house. I use www.clubsauce.com, but they are available on several sites.

They come in little hockey puck tubs that only go in the fridge after opening. They claim no MSG, no salt, no preservatives and taste as if that's true.

[torakris]

Thanks for the info, I will check them out.

[Nick]

Today I finally got around to cleaning and sorting out the mounds of paper and magazines that accumulate on my table, couch and floor. (I'm messy.)

Among this was a page I'd printed out from egullet with a recipe for chicken stock. It looked liked Dave the Cook's writing. (It was.) Here's the link if anyone wants to revisit chicken stock. Dave's excellent post is a little less than halfway down the first page.

Chicken Stock

Aside: Jason, are you going to get this new version running so that the http thingie will take the whole URL?

[Dave the Cook]

Thanks, Nick. You didn't happen to run across my recipe for Stuffed Braised Snipe, did you?

[Nick]

Thanks, Nick. You didn't happen to run across my recipe for Stuffed Braised Snipe, did you?  

Ah, indeed I did. That was an excellent thread and I tried to get Heston Blumenthal to comment on it when he was doing a Q&A here, but I was unsuccesful in getting my question posted.