Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

weinoo

Sous Vide Supreme and other home options: 2009-10

Recommended Posts

I received my Demi yesterday, the same day their universal pouch rack appeared for sale on their website. I grudgingly ordered it. Suppose it would have been possible to improvise a rack with various kitchen utensils/tools but the one for sale seems so much more convenient. It's a little strange and annoying that they don't include it with the Demi but I guess they're aggressively keeping costs down on the machine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ah, thanks, I just ordered mine too. Also just got a reply but all they told me is that it's now on their website, no comment on why it's not part of the demi delivery or why it's not clearly noted that this would be something essential to buy. I thought about using a rib rack, but this thing is custom made and will hopefully work better.


"And don't forget music - music in the kitchen is an essential ingredient!"

- Thomas Keller

Diablo Kitchen, my food blog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I received my Demi yesterday, the same day their universal pouch rack appeared for sale on their website. I grudgingly ordered it. Suppose it would have been possible to improvise a rack with various kitchen utensils/tools but the one for sale seems so much more convenient. It's a little strange and annoying that they don't include it with the Demi but I guess they're aggressively keeping costs down on the machine.

Let us know how it fits in the demi. I assume it will since they are selling it, but I am interested to see if it will work on all sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That my vac bags leave an odd surface on food from those little channels on one side of the plastic is an other issue, also the chicken breasts all looked like pillows in a way, I guess SV comes along with some trimming before serving. The surface can't be avoided unless one has a vac packer that uses bags that are smooth on both sides I guess. No big deal at home, it does make for some artificial man made looking meat though :-D

What sealer are you using? I know with the Foodsaver bags, the channels are on only one side, so I just make a point of serving that side down.

Wrapping the marinated meat in cling film avoids the pattern on the surface; furthermore you do not need maximum vacuum (see Dave Arnold: vacuum machines affect the texture of your meat ), especially for fish and poultry you might even prefer ziploc-bags. If your clamp type vacuum sealer does not allow setting a reduced vacuum level, you may connect the adaptor of the tube you use to evacuate vacuum containers and close it only partly with your finger tip; this is especially helpful when bagging food with a lot of liquid: as soon as the liquid starts crawling up towards the sealing bar, you stop occluding the auxiliary port, allowing air to enter the system thus reducing the vacuum level. Verify that the seal is perfect, eventually apply a second and third seal.

Vacuum-sealing with liquid_k.jpg


Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

eG Ethics Signatory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to wait for my universal pouch rack to arrive, but have a strip steak that I want to try for tonight. For a single item like that, do you all think that placing it horizontally flat onto the bottom pan in the Demi will be a problem? This will be my first sous vide attempt and really looking forward to it.

Also, this is probably not the thread for it, but I plan on seasoning the steak with a regular amount of kosher salt and pepper (the same amount I'd use if I were cooking non-sous vide), vacuum sealing with my foodsaver, then cooking at 130 for around 45 minutes or however long it takes to get up to temperature, followed by a quick sear in a blazing hot cast iron skillet. Bases covered?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

unless the steak is as big as the entire inside you'll be just fine, putting it down flat is I think how it's supposed to be. Just make sure the water can get up around it everywhere. And fill the machine to the fill line.

As for the rest, that's how I've done it, s&p and a quick 60 sec sear in a very hot cast iron pan. Turned out fantastic. Maybe dab it a bit dry to allow for better/quicker sear.

I then slice steak for serving and sprinkle a bit fleur de sel or some black salt etc over it, plus an other grind of fresh pepper. Should not need more.

As for the time, it's not so much about "up to temperature" but also takes time for the fat and collagen to dissolve and get all juicy. It won't overcook as the temp never goes above med rare at 130, but I'd guess it'll take more than just 45 min. Search around a bit and see how tough or lean your meat appears. My short ribs cooked for some 8 hours and could have used more.

I just submerged 3 thick pork chops that got s&p, dried garlic and dried oregano on it. I still have to read up on using fresh garlic etc (grows in ground where botulism spores live), and dry rubs are - well - dry. These will swim for some 2-

3 hrs.

I'll also flash them in the hot pan, hoping for some nice moist and tender meat, not the usual rubber these cuts tend to turn into all too often.


"And don't forget music - music in the kitchen is an essential ingredient!"

- Thomas Keller

Diablo Kitchen, my food blog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It won't overcook as the temp never goes above med rare at 130, but I'd guess it'll take more than just 45 min. Search around a bit and see how tough or lean your meat appears. My short ribs cooked for some 8 hours and could have used more.

I'm a little confused about knowing when the Demi has gotten my steak up to temperature. I filled the Demi with hot water from my tap, then put in the vacuum sealed ny strip steak which had been out of my refrigerator for about fifteen minutes. Within a matter of maybe five minutes the temperature display on the Demi registered 130 degrees. Now there's no way the steak has actually reached that, right? So how am I to know when it has? Is there a problem with my Demi?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The gauge only shows the temperature of the water, not the temperature of the centre of the meat.

The speed at which the meat heats up is proportional to the thickness of the piece.

Check out Douglas Baldwin's practical guide to Sous Vide cooking for more detail and cooking times.


Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we're all learning :-)

Use the cooking chart that came with the demi, it shows for how long you have to cook something at least, and also the max time you should allow. Or follow the link above.

Also, do fill the demi with hot water, but wait until it's up to temp before adding the food! I wait some 10 or so min to make sure water temp is stable before adding food. And the food has been out of the fridge for a while by then, so it's close to room temp. I usually take it out when I turn the demi on.

Oh, and the pork chops came out fantastic, among the best I've ever had! 3hrs in the water and a flash fry all over.


"And don't forget music - music in the kitchen is an essential ingredient!"

- Thomas Keller

Diablo Kitchen, my food blog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just received my optional bag rack today. It fits into the Demi just fine, but if you put it on it's side so you can put bags on top of each other you could only fit 2 bags, maybe 3 if it's something thin, the 4th shelf would be above the water line.

No issue for me, I'm not sure why I'd want to have bags in there flat, seems vertical offers better circulation, but if that's something important to you now you know :)

I still think it should be part of the package, I can't imagine that thing costs much to have made, but it's also not absolutely necessary for family size amounts. I had my pork chops standing in the grill the Demi comes with. They stand on the bottom piece with the holes, but don't cover all that many and heat convection seemed to work just fine. Still a nice addition.


"And don't forget music - music in the kitchen is an essential ingredient!"

- Thomas Keller

Diablo Kitchen, my food blog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the rest, that's how I've done it, s&p and a quick 60 sec sear in a very hot cast iron pan. Turned out fantastic. Maybe dab it a bit dry to allow for better/quicker sear.

I took Dave Arnold's advice over at Cooking Issues and have been pre-searing my beef, bagging with butter, and searing again afterward. There is a significant difference to me in the color the meat gets when searing twice...if I wanted it that color post-sous vide without the pre-sear I'd have to leave it on the skillet long enough that the gray band would appear around the meat, defeating the purpose of sv'ing it in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll have to try that pre-sear idea, not so much for color, but I'm wondering what it does to the taste, having those nice brown bits slowly melting in the bag.

I did not get a gray band, I put mine into a very smoking hot cast iron skillet for about 60 sec each side. Got a wonderful golden brown and crunchy(!) sear with no heat travel to the inside. Meat was cooled down a bit after SV.

Got two Angus steaks going in in minutes, not enough time to play with pre-sear today.


"And don't forget music - music in the kitchen is an essential ingredient!"

- Thomas Keller

Diablo Kitchen, my food blog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I purchased the Sous Vide Supreme directly from the manufacturer. Their customer service couldn't be better! I noticed a puddle underneath mine while doing a 52 hour short rib cook, emailed customer service and they shipped a new one to me the next day. I just cooked some scrambled eggs with boursin cheese (delicious!) and realized that my first machine probably had an inaccurate thermostat. The new one gets much warmer. I had thought that my ribs cooked at 133 in the first one were a bit rare. I didn't check the first one with a thermometer; next time I use the new one, I probably will.

I also saw that Costco.com has a demi package now (online only). $350 with the Sous Vide vacuum sealer, extra bags and Doug's book, including shipping and handling.

I am going to try Michael Ruhlman's Sous Vide Pastrami next....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • By Porthos
      I picked up enough boneless short ribs to make 3 meals for my Sweetie and me. One meal will be pan-braised tonight. One has been vacuum-sealed and is in the freezer. My question is about seasoning, sealing, freezing, then defrosting and cooking at a later date. I'd like to season and seal the 3rd meal's worth. Can I use a dry rub on the meat, then seal, freeze, and cook at a later date? Does anyone else do this?
    • By newchef
      So I've now found myself at the water's edge of Modernist Cuisine.  Specifically, using sodium citrate for emulsifying all kinds of cheeses.  What I'm after is making an emulsified Parmesan sauce as well as another emulsified cheese sauce (most likely using Cheddar or Colby) that I can freeze and use later.  I'm a single guy and am no stranger of tweaking recipes for freezing but I haven't done it for modernist stuff yet.  I'd love to make a big batch of cheese sauce, freeze it into ice cubes for up to 3 months or so, and then take a few cubes out to thaw on a weeknight and toss with pasta, drizzle over veggies, etc.
       
      I looked at the modernist cuisine FAQ and saw this specific post about the cheese sauce that is "probably" freeze-able because it uses something called carageenan.  Has anyone been able to freeze sauce and keep it frozen for, say, a few months?  And not have to use carageenan?
       
      Thanks!
    • By WackGet
      Recently I picked up a few different types of emulsifiers in bulk powder form when I saw them in passing at a catering wholesaler.
       
      Having never used powdered emulsifiers before in cooking or baking, I figured I'd find pretty comprehensive instructions for their use on the web - but I can't.
       
      I'm not a stranger to food science but nor am I a chemist. I understand that emulsifiers are at least sometimes prepared by pre-mixing them into a (heated?) liquid or fat and then using the resulting solution in the actual recipe, which may explain why a lot of commercial emulsifier mixtures are packages as tubes of gel or paste. I've also checked several industry-level textbooks about emulsifiers and while they are fantastic for in-depth explanations of the chemistry behind each emulsifier, they do not (as you might imagine) provide guidance on how a lowly baker or cook would actually use a powdered form.
       
      So does anyone know how to prepare and use a dry powdered form of any of the following in a real recipe?
       
      Specifically I am most interested in enhancing baked goods and adding stability to sauces, but would also like to know how to use them for other processes such as sausage-making too.
      E471 Mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids E481 Sodium stearoyl lactylate E482 Calcium stearoyl lactylate E472e DATEM (diacetyl tartaric acid ester of mono- and diglycerides)
        Thanks.
    • By mjbarnard
      I cooked two turkey breasts sous vide. This year had access to the Meater+ thermometer probe which I managed to vacuum seal in the bag without difficulty (it is small). Since it works wirelessly I was able to monitor and it records the internal temperatures at the thickest part of the breast.
      I thought the results were interesting. I cooked at 60C for 8 hours. I have always used https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/a-better-way-to-turkey-cook-that-bird-sous-vide-for-the-best-feast-ever which gives long cooking times at lower temperature. I have found that as according to this page https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/11/sous-vide-turkey-breast-crispy-skin-recipe-thanksgiving.html that 55C gives turkey which is just a little too pink for most tastes. Over the last few years have increased the temperature up to 59/60 and I find it perfect - very moist and tender, but pale not pink.
      See attached images. I changed my mind a couple of times and started at 58 then 60 then 59 again, so ignore the slight variations. The thing I found interesting was that the thickest part (of a large breast) reached 55C in around 1 hour 40 mins and target of 59 in 2 hours 30 mins. Now I appreciate that sous vide is a combination of temperature and time or duration, but the data make me think that around 4 hours would be sufficient, as per the seriouseats table. I have previously used the chefsteps 55-58 for their much longer advised times, up to 12 hours and the meat is still quite pink at the end, so I dont believe 55 for 12 hours would effectively be the same.
      From now on I will watching the internal temperatures with interest. This has always been the (relative) unkown for sous vide amateurs. 


    • By chefg
      I have to say designing the Alinea kitchen has been one of the most exciting experiences thus far in the opening of this restaurant. I have been fortunate to have been “raised” in some of the best kitchens in the country. When I arrived at the French Laundry in August 1996 the “new kitchen” had just been completed. Often times you would hear the man talk about the good old days of cooking on a residential range with only one refrigerator and warped out sauté pans with wiggly handles. When I started about 50% of the custom stainless steel was in place. The walls smooth with tile and carpet on the floors. I recall the feeling of anxiety when working for fear that I would dirty up the kitchen, not a common concern for most cooks in commercial kitchens.
      The French Laundry kitchen didn’t stop, it continued to evolve over the four years I was there. I vividly remember the addition of the custom fish/canapé stainless unit. Allowing the poissonier to keep his mise en place in beautiful 1/9 pan rails instead of the ice cube filled fish lugs. Each advancement in technology and ergonomics made the kitchen a more efficient and exacting machine.
      When I returned to the Laundry this past July for the 10th anniversary I was shocked that it had metomorphisized once again. The butcher room was now a sea of custom stainless steel low boys, the pot sink area was expanded, the walk-in moved, and an office added to the corner of the kitchen. The kitchen as I left it in June of 2001 was beautiful and extremely functional, of course it is even more so now. It is the relentless pursuit of detail and concise thought that allows the French Laundry kitchen to be one of the best for cooks to execute their craft…..16 hours a day.
      This was good motivation.
      When it came time to design my kitchen I drew on experiences at Trio, TFL and other kitchens I was familiar with to define the positives and negatives of those designs. We were faced with a 21x 44' rectangle. This space would not allow for my original kitchen design idea of four islands postioned throughout the kitchen, but ultimately gave way for the current design which I think is actually better than the original. But most the important aspect in shaping the final design was the cuisine. Due to the nature of food that we produce a typical layout with common equipment standards and dimensions do not work. Here is where the team drew on our experiences from Trio. By looking at the techniques we utilized we came to several conclusions.
      1. A conventional range was not our main heat source. We do need the flat tops and some open burners for applications such as braising and limited stock work. But our overall use of this piece of equipment is somewhat low. Given that we wanted four open burners and two flat tops with two ovens I began to source out a reliable unit. We settled on the Molteni G230.

      2. Upon analyzing our other heat source needs we decided to place a large focus on induction. By utilizing portable induction burners we are allowed the flexibility to give as much power as needed to a specific station in the kitchen. Obviously induction’s radiant heat is very low, and this allows us to keep the temperature in the kitchen reasonable, yet the power is quite high. 31,000 BTU's of highly controlable heat. But the main reason for choosing this flexible source of heat is the fact that each chef typically employed at least four different cooking applications on a given night. This huge flux in technique and the realization that the menu would change entirely in 8 weeks time meant that we had to design a kitchen that could evolve on a nightly basis. And last, we are very specific with temperatures; induction makes it easier for us to hold a liquid at a predetermined temperature for long periods of time without fluctuation. They operate between 85 and 500 degrees farenheit. We did a great deal of research on the different producers of induction and favored Cooktek. The fact that they are the only U.S manufacturer of commercial induction cooking equipment and located in Chicago made the decision easier. Their innovative approach to induction may prove to be even more exciting as we are already talking about new product development in the future.

      3. a. The complexity of the presentations and a la minute plate-ups of the food require a great deal of surface area devoted to plating. This was one of the most critical factors in determining the basic shape of the kitchen. The size of some of today's popular plates, the amount detail in each composition, coupled with the fact that producing tasting menus vs. ala carte means sometimes large waves of same dish pick ups made it necessary for us to have over 44' of linear plating surface.
      b. Virtually nothing goes vertical above the 36” counter top in the space. All food, plates, equipment, and dry good storage are contained by under counter units. There are a few exceptions such as the infrared salamanders, the three-door refrigerator, and the hood. This allows all the cooks a clear line of communication between each other and the front staff. It allows me an easy sight line to survey the entire kitchen’s progress with a quick glance.
      Given these two points it seemed obvious that we needed to combine the two and create custom pieces that would fulfill both needs. Large spans of plating surfaces with all food and equipment storage below. As you can see we ended up with two 22’ long units. Each function as a pass and under counter storage.
      The building is 21’ wide wall to wall. This allowed us just enough space to create two lines on each exterior wall with their passes forming a 60” corridor for the pick up of plates and finishing of dishes.
      4. We decided to add a station to the kitchen. At Trio we had five including:
      a. pastry
      b. cold garde manger
      c. hot garde manger
      d. fish
      e. meat
      Now that we had more space, and the ability to give each station multiple heat
      sources regardless of their location in the kitchen, we could spread the workload even further. We also realized it doesn’t make much sense to identify each station by classic French Bragade terms. A saucier did not solely cook meat with classic techniques and prepare various traditional stocks and sauces…in fact quite the opposite. This holds true with most of the stations, with the exception of pastry, but even they will have very unconventional techniques, menu placement and involvement in the kitchen systems. We will add a station that will be responsible for a large majority of the one-bite courses both sweet and savory.
      5.Given the size constraints of the building we realized a walk-in would not be possible in the kitchen. If we were to have one it would be in the basement. Having experienced this at Trio we decided to design the kitchen without a walk-in, making up for the space in various lowboy locations and a three-door reach-in. I experienced the walk-in less environment when I worked at Charlie Trotter’s. It is certainly different, but as with most things if done properly it provides a very efficient environment. It works best in situations where fresh products are brought in daily for that days use. And prevents ordering in large quantities. It also provides us with very specific units to house different items. We will utilize the 3-door refrigerator to store the majority of the vegetables and herbs along with some staple mise en place, and items that cannot be made in very small quantities like stocks. Raw meat will have it’s own lowboys as well as fish, dairy, and all frozen products.
      6. At Trio we found ourselves using the salamander a great deal. It is very useful for melting sugar, bringing on transparent qualities in things like fat and cheese, cooking items intensely on only one side, and it is a highly controllable non-direct heat source. Due to the air gap between the foodstuff and the heat elements the cook can control the degree of heat applied to the dish based on the technique he is using. It becomes a very versatile tool in the modern kitchen, so much so that we will install three Sodir infrared salamanders.

      Again, this is to insure that all the cooks have access to all of the techniques in the kitchen. As I said before it is important for our cooks to be able to sauté, simmer, poach, fry, grill, salamander, and freeze at the same time and sometimes for the same dish.
      We have a few unusual pieces of equipment in the kitchen; the most is probably a centrifuge. A few months ago Nick and I were driving home from a design meeting and ended up talking about signature dishes and menu repetition. Of course the black truffle explosion came up and he asked if I would have it on the menu at Alinea. I replied a firm no, but shortly thereafter said I would enjoy updating it. We threw around some tongue and cheek ideas like White Truffle Implosion, and Truffle Explosion 2005….I said it was a goal of mine to make a frozen ball with a liquid center….but then dismissed it as nearly impossible. Within a few minutes he said …”I got it…we need a centrifuge” His explanation was simple, place the desired liquid in a spherical mold and place on the centrifuge…place the whole thing in the freezer. Within days he had one in the test kitchen. I guess this is better suited for the kitchen lab topic that we will be starting in a few weeks…
      We are working on a upload of the kitchen blueprints. When those post I plan on going into more detail about certian aspects of the design. Doing so now would be pointless as the viewer does not have a reference point.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...