Manufacturers' directions are stoopid

[Fat Guy]

I've had my Exopats since the 1990s. They still work great despite many trips through the dishwasher. If it's cavalier -- or smug -- to say that I think the hours and hours of my time I've saved by not hand washing them are worth more than $15, so be it. I hasten to add that the cost to me has not even been $15. I've not yet needed to replace a single mat.

And these things add up. If you slavishly follow every manufacturers' direction that wastes your time or hinders your performance as a cook, that's an impressive amount of faith to place in corporations that are -- by near-universal agreement on this topic -- engaging in a lot of ceremonial ass covering. I don't feel an overriding need to play along with that. I prefer to do whatever works.

It's also kind of amusing, or perhaps alarming, when people take the position that the manufacturer knows best. Not only is it an unrealistic view of the way manufacturing works, but also it ignores the role of the educated consumer. In many product categories -- not just kitchen wares -- it's often the consumers that figure out how best to utilize a product. Manufacturers learn a lot when their customers figure out more efficient, better ways to take advantage of their goods. That's why we have things like the Microplane. If everybody just acceded to manufacturers' directions and recommended uses, we'd deprive ourselves of a major source of product innovation.

I also think it's pretty clear that manufacturers' directions are targeted at the lowest-common-denominator consumer. I imagine nobody posting or reading here falls into that category.

The expressed fear of departing from manufacturers' recommendations is puzzling. Is it really the case that anybody taking that position has never departed from any manufacturers' recommendation about any product? I'd find that extremely difficult to believe.

[Marlene]

I sort of have to say, I rarely follow the manufacturer's instructions. Just about everything goes in my dishwasher, including my All Clad Copper Core, my good china and crystal, my Reidel stemware and most of my knives. The exception is my chef's knife, but that is mostly because I'm washing it to reuse it right away. I own a silipat, but I rarely if ever use it. My waring pro blender is not supposed to go in the dishwasher, but it does, and has done for 5 years now, no problems. Same with the bowl of my kitchen aid coffee grinder

[Fat Guy]

You're not supposed to put the Waring pitcher in the dishwasher?

Oops.

[Marlene]

Not the ones that don't come apart apparently. The manufacturer suggest putting soap and water into the pitcher and turning the speed on low to medium to get it clean. I think I did that the first two times I used it, then into the dishwasher it went. I mean, the bottom was getting wet when I hand washed it, so I couldn't figure out the difference. Edited September 23, 2009 by Marlene (log)

[Dave the Cook]

Given the way Silpat words their instructions, I imagine they're less worried about product liability than trying to ensure long-term customer satisfaction across an array of customer types, including commercial kitchens, where conditions can be a lot rougher than in homes. Still, I've seen a lot of Silpat pieces in regular use in restaurant kitchens.

It wouldn't surprise me if my Silpat eventually deteriorated after years of automatic dishwashing -- and being rolled up inside a paper towel core. I wouldn't complain to Silpat, but if I did they'd just say, "Dude, we told you not to do that." They'd be right. And I'd buy another one and "mistreat" it, too.

But enough about Silpats. How do people treat their PTFE (aka Teflon) cookware? The only reason not to put it in the dishwasher is aesthetic: the anodized aluminum that usually comprises the body of the pan starts to look chalky and etched. The part you cook on -- the non-stick coating -- couldn't care less.

[Fat Guy]

It so happens that I've been using my Waring blender fanatically of late in the manufacture of smoothies. Sometimes I put it in the dishwasher and sometimes I fill it with soapy water in the sink -- it depends on the schedule for running the dishwasher and its impact on when I'll be able to use the blender again. I will say, if you put anything like flax (or a protein powder, I imagine) in your blender as part of your smoothies then hand washing is inadequate. If you hand wash it a couple of times in a row, it starts to smell. Whereas, the dishwasher gets it good and clean (and sterile).

[David A. Goldfarb]

Can't see what would be wrong with putting a Waring pitcher in the dishwasher, and I agree that in general, manufacturers make a lot of senseless recommendations, like the instructions discussed in another thread for "seasoning" an aluminum skillet that no one seems to follow, and that seem more akin to "ruining" an aluminum skillet. But still I can imagine valid reasons for not putting Silpats and silicone bakeware (which I don't really care for myself) in the dishwasher, and wouldn't dismiss that suggestion out of hand.

[Marlene]

Given the way Silpat words their instructions, I imagine they're less worried about product liability than trying to ensure long-term customer satisfaction across an array of customer types, including commercial kitchens, where conditions can be a lot rougher than in homes. Still, I've seen a lot of Silpat pieces in regular use in restaurant kitchens.

It wouldn't surprise me if my Silpat eventually deteriorated after years of automatic dishwashing -- and being rolled up inside a paper towel core. I wouldn't complain to Silpat, but if I did they'd just say, "Dude, we told you not to do that." They'd be right. And I'd buy another one and "mistreat" it, too.

But enough about Silpats. How do people treat their PTFE (aka Teflon) cookware? The only reason not to put it in the dishwasher is aesthetic: the anodized aluminum that usually comprises the body of the pan starts to look chalky and etched. The part you cook on -- the non-stick coating -- couldn't care less.

Interestly, I rarely put non stick pans in the dishwasher. I have no idea why.

[JAZ]

But still I can imagine valid reasons for not putting Silpats and silicone bakeware (which I don't really care for myself) in the dishwasher, and wouldn't dismiss that suggestion out of hand.

Just to clarify, it's not the silicone part of the Silpat that's supposed to be problematic; it's the fiberglass core. I have a lot of silicone bakeware, ice cube trays, candy molds, etc. that are all labeled dishwasher safe.

[maggiethecat]

It so happens that I've been using my Waring blender fanatically of late in the manufacture of smoothies. Sometimes I put it in the dishwasher and sometimes I fill it with soapy water in the sink -- it depends on the schedule for running the dishwasher and its impact on when I'll be able to use the blender again. I will say, if you put anything like flax (or a protein powder, I imagine) in your blender as part of your smoothies then hand washing is inadequate. If you hand wash it a couple of times in a row, it starts to smell. Whereas, the dishwasher gets it good and clean (and sterile).

Um, I don't own a dishwasher, make said smoothies, my blender doesn't smell and nobody's died. There was life before dishwashers.

That said,when I've owned a dishwasher I crammed it with anything that cost less than fifty bucks with little collateral damage.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I don't have a problem either with getting flax out of the glass cloverleaf Waring pitcher, not owning a dishwasher. I usually let it soak a bit, if I don't have time to clean it immediately, and then use a long Oxo dishwashing brush with a cylindrical bristle head to clean it and get under the blades. For some reason, this brush is not easy to find. I've gotten them from Zabar's and Bed, Bath, and Beyond, when they've been in stock.

[fooey]

re: Silpats, Waring blender, and other silicon/plastic items, the warning might be warranted if the damage they're trying to avoid is (not from the water, detergent or spinning blades) from the heating/drying element used by the dishwasher's "heated dry" cycle. That element is basically the same as the element in a conventional electric oven, although I don't know how hot it gets. Hot enough to vaporize water, for sure...

I know the silicon oven mitts can withstand 600 F+, but I don't know the upper range for silpats. I wonder if the heating element would melt a Silpat if they touched.

I know the heating element will warp/damage some plastic, like the OXO Salad Spinner. The dishwasher once turned my round salad spinner bowl into an oval one. That's was rather neat!

Edited September 24, 2009 by fooey (log)

[JAZ]

I was in a cookware store the other day, looking at the display of Silpats, and a question occurred to me: If the Silpat site tells me to store my Silpats flat, then why are they rolled up when I buy them? Seems to me if I'm supposed to store them flat, Silpat should too.

[cbread]

Many manufacturers indulge in over the top CYA behavior. Of course you can store a Silpat rolled up.

At best many manufacturer's instructions are merely inane. Some companies, however, achieve complete ignorance of their product and it's proper use.

[Aloha Steve]

Many manufacturers indulge in over the top CYA behavior. Of course you can store a Silpat rolled up.

Here is a pic of how I store my Silpat. Its been stored like this for 6 months at lest, except for maybe 10 hours of use.

Whenever I unroll it for use, its as springy and unwrinkled as the day I opened it for the first time.