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Capturing that elusive taste of pizza in Italy


OliverB

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Has anyone tried cooking in a BBQ in a cast iron pan? I know I can get my grill up higher than 550.

Haven't, but it should work great. I'd use a heavy pizza stone, or if you can find one, a slab of iron or steel, so you don't have to contend with the sides of the pan. The only issue I can imagine is that the toppings might cook too fast. managing a wood fired oven is a kind of balancing act between the temp at the floor of the oven and the temp at the top. I don't know what the situation would be like inside a weber grill.

Notes from the underbelly

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Has anyone tried cooking in a BBQ in a cast iron pan? I know I can get my grill up higher than 550.

Cast iron doesn't absorb moisture, so it isn't exactly ideal for dough. I use an unglazed terracotta pizza stone inside my Big Green Egg, running anywhere from 650 to 800 degrees. A thin pie will cook in 3-5 minutes, if the stone is sufficiently preheated. See pics below. The BGE's precise temp controls make it easy to bake over hardwood charcoal; in addition to pizza, I do breads, fruit galettes, pies, cornbread (now that's what cast iron is good for), cookies, whatever. (About the only thing I haven't tried is angel food cake!)

bge pizza.jpgbge pizza 2.jpg

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Has anyone tried cooking in a BBQ in a cast iron pan? I know I can get my grill up higher than 550.

Cast iron doesn't absorb moisture, so it isn't exactly ideal for dough.

People who use metal report great results. A stone doesn't actually absorb moisture; nothing absorbs moisture when it's above the boiling point. Any water that comes in contact with the oven deck (stone, metal, or whatever) flashes off as steam instantly.

A stone is just the traditional way getting a lot of thermal mass. A chunk of iron could have at least as much, with the advantage of higher conductivity. This could get you a quick cook and char on the crust at somewhat lower temperatures than a stone. And it could improve cooking in smaller ovens or grills where you don't have much temperature differential between the deck and the top of the oven.

Notes from the underbelly

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won't the stone facilitate steam moving away a bit better than solid metal? Even at high heat, the relative porous material pizza stones are made of should allow some steam to get into it and distribute better?

Interesting thing to think about, I might just put a metal plate or cast iron pan on the grill some day and see how it compares. Would actually be nice to be able and stick a pizza in a pan in the bbq - if it works.

"And don't forget music - music in the kitchen is an essential ingredient!"

- Thomas Keller

Diablo Kitchen, my food blog

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I don't think the porosity of the stone makes any difference. I've slid pizzas onto my stone on a sheet of foil and it doesn't seem to affect the crispness or char at all (it does tend to stick, so I've stopped doing this). My hesitation with skillets isn't the metal, but the sides. I think a plate of steel or a big griddle would be much better.

Notes from the underbelly

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Has anyone tried cooking in a BBQ in a cast iron pan? I know I can get my grill up higher than 550.

Cast iron doesn't absorb moisture, so it isn't exactly ideal for dough.

People who use metal report great results. A stone doesn't actually absorb moisture; nothing absorbs moisture when it's above the boiling point. Any water that comes in contact with the oven deck (stone, metal, or whatever) flashes off as steam instantly.

A stone is just the traditional way getting a lot of thermal mass. A chunk of iron could have at least as much, with the advantage of higher conductivity. This could get you a quick cook and char on the crust at somewhat lower temperatures than a stone. And it could improve cooking in smaller ovens or grills where you don't have much temperature differential between the deck and the top of the oven.

That is the key to using a steel plate, the conductivity is much greater than a stone, and replicates the "brick oven " thing much better,

Mine goes on the bottom shelf of the oven and is closer to the heating element, and therefor gets much hotter

than the oven max temp (550º)

Bud

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Bud, where did you get your steel plate? how thick is it?

A local industrial supply house that cut it to 14" square and 1/4" thick..(fits my oven, must measure yours before ordering..Try the yellow pages and call around and see if you can find someone who will cut "to size" steel plate.

Think it only cost $15...

Bud

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Other sites to check out are these:

Pizza.it - This site offers a recipe and a tutorial.

Jeff Varasano's This also offers a recipe and tutorial.

The World Pizza Champions site also offers some recipes.

PizzaMaking.com

I agree with the others who have said that the "sauce" should not be cooked. If you aren't using fresh tomatoes, then a "strained" San Marzano would work. (Pomi, LaValle (in the jar, not can preferably), Bella) The best pizzas are simple ingredients and not loaded with toppings. And, please, no pineapple or ham. :)

Caputo (blue label) flour is great, but you can get a comparable pizza with other high gluten flours.

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Pizza. A subject near and dear to my heart. I'm in Umbria, not exactly known for it's pizza, but this being Italy, there is still fine pizza to be had. It just takes some digging around and the encouragement of Pizza Guruto guide us on the path to goodness.

Here are some observations:

It takes a hot oven. We're talking industrial heat, pizza charred and bubbling in under 90 seconds. More like 60. Hot Pizza Oven (1).jpg That's the pizza oven at Nestor's at around midnight.

The crust must be thin. Recently at our favorite place I could see the plate pattern right through the crust.

Thin crust pizza (1).jpg

Most pizza dough around here is either Tipo 0 or Manitoba (harder wheat). For me, the crust is the clincher, it needs to be crispy all the way, a little char but not too much and it should have a distinctive 'bready' flavor. I think our favorite place is either using a touch of whole wheat in their flour or possibly some sort of fat. Asking these sort of questions at a place where you are a regular is very touchy and I haven't worked up the courage yet.

Adding rucola (arugala sp??) to the top of a pizza makes it healthy.

Piu rucola.jpg

Toppings come in every conceivable combination. Including french fries. Yes, french fries on top of pizza. Napoli classic rules insist on only tomato and buffala mozzarella, but we're not in Napoli. Poached eggs are big, so are hot dogs (wurstel). The menfolk all like to tell the waitress to hold the wurstel. Pepperoni = peppers, peperoncino = hot peppers, salame picante = what is called pepperoni in North America. Overall quality of the toppings matter. They matter a lot.

Pizzarias are given additional points for decently cutlery, and drinkable house wine. Ambiance does not count. Serving pizza for lunch results in a mark down (pizza is a dinner only item, only places catering to tourists have it for lunch), slices are to be tolerated only in moments of extreme famine.

It's never too early to become a pizza critic.

Pizza Critic.jpg

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I knew a few pizzaioli in Italy and they all used fresh Lievito di Birra....beer yeast. Made my Hot Cross Buns with it whilst living there and the flavour, compared to those I used to make with dried yeast, was fantastic. So, those of you yearning for that 'true' taste of an authentic Italian pizza, give it a try if you haven't already. May be what you are looking for?

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I knew a few pizzaioli in Italy and they all used fresh Lievito di Birra....beer yeast.

Well, I went back and looked at the recipe I posted above and sure enough it specifies brewers yeast.

I don't know if it would really make a difference, but, worth a try.

Cheers,

Geoff

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Yes, I've used my grill (gas) with a pre-heated pizza stone (may grill gets up to almost 800 degrees F. Works great.

-Doc

"Everything I eat has been proved by some doctor or other to be a deadly poison, and everything I don't eat has been proved to be indispensable for life. But I go marching on." ~George Bernard Shaw

My link

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I strongly suspect the placebo effect may account for the difference between Italian pizza and pizza in the US. It is inconceivable to me that there is such uniformity in ingredients and technique in msking pizza in Italy that they all taste alike in some ineffable way that cannot be duplicated in the US, no matter what. That is why we have blind tastings in wine contests. It is too bad blind pizza tastings are impractical.

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