• Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

KD1191

Rogue (now beta) Cocktails

247 posts in this topic

Very interesting Mayur! Is this more or less a Suze-alike? Or similar enough/in the same family enough to make a workable substitution (like, say, using Cinzano sweet vermouth instead of M&R)? Or is it more of a unique product?


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suze was supposed to be imported into the U.S. in 2010 and has been spotted in liquor stores in New Orleans that year (the group of people I stayed with for Tales that year bought a bottle as they stocked the bed&breakfast's bar). Now it's slated again to be here this year (but I will believe it when I see it on a shelf):

My linkhttp://offthepresses.blogspot.com/2011/09/suze-to-finally-reach-us-shores.html

Mayur, we are definitely looking forward to the Bittermen's liqueurs reaching our shelves (you can't mail them to us here in Massachusetts). I definitely am glad that an Amer Picon-like spirit will be available for I find it a sin against mankind if someone cannot mix up a proper Brooklyn. Any word on the price point for these liqueurs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very interesting Mayur! Is this more or less a Suze-alike? Or similar enough/in the same family enough to make a workable substitution (like, say, using Cinzano sweet vermouth instead of M&R)? Or is it more of a unique product?

It's definitely similar enough to substitute; we've been using it for white Negronis and Arawaks and Mayahuel had it in their Suzie Q. It is slightly bitterer, the difference being almost entirely, if I may rather self-promotingly speculate, in the quality and type of gentian (the brix is identical to that of Suze and the HB Gentiane de Luxe, with the pH maybe a nod less acid). If using in large amounts (say, drinking it on the rocks with soda), I would recommend adding 1/4 tsp simple per 2 oz pour if you want the milder gentian feel of Suze itself. But for cocktail applications, it's basically a 1:1.


Mayur Subbarao, aka "Mayur"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mayur, we are definitely looking forward to the Bittermen's liqueurs reaching our shelves (you can't mail them to us here in Massachusetts). I definitely am glad that an Amer Picon-like spirit will be available for I find it a sin against mankind if someone cannot mix up a proper Brooklyn. Any word on the price point for these liqueurs?

We are looking at $24.99 per 375ml bottle retail. Not cheap, I know, but these are ingredients that are largely used in half-ounce pours, so the overall calculus shouldn't be too bad.


Mayur Subbarao, aka "Mayur"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any time frame available yet for when the Bitterman spirits like Amère Nouvelle and Amère Sauvage might be available on an internet retailer like Drinkupny or similar? Not much access down here in Atlanta (or anywhere near by) yet it would appear.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any time frame available yet for when the Bitterman spirits like Amère Nouvelle and Amère Sauvage might be available on an internet retailer like Drinkupny or similar? Not much access down here in Atlanta (or anywhere near by) yet it would appear.

Hmm, I suppose not...


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're not sure yet. ;) Hopefully, we will have some answers regarding distribution this week (fingers crossed...)


Mayur Subbarao, aka "Mayur"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're not sure yet. ;) Hopefully, we will have some answers regarding distribution this week (fingers crossed...)

OK, thanks! Definitely interested if I can find a source.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was mighty impressed by the '2 Cups of Blood' from Beta Cocktails:

3/4 oz Mezcal Vida

3/4 oz Suze (I used the Chartreuse Gentiane)

3/4 Punt e Mes

3/4 Bittermens Xocolatl Mole Bitters

Stirred & strained, garnished w/ grapefruit peel.

This confused the hell out of my mouth...at least for a couple sips. Several extremely intense flavors competing for ground, with the chocolate/spice of the bitters certainly at the forefront, but the smokiness of the mezcal and long lingering finish of the gentian were very pleasantly discernible. This was my first experience with the Bittermens Mole bitters, and going in I wouldn't have given them a shot at taming the powerful Suze + Mezcal, but they sure did. For as much as the recipe looks like a Clash of the Titans, it's a rather mellow, balanced concoction in the end.

How in the hell did I miss that drink? Time to do a little tinkering behind the bar with the new Bittermens Amère Sauvage Gentiane to see how it works in this cocktail. It's time for a night of inebriation in the name of research!


Avery Glasser

Bittermens, Inc. - Producers of Bittermens Bitters & Extracts

Bittermens Spirits, Inc. - Purveyors of Small Batch Bitter Liqueurs

Vendetta Spirits, LLC. - Nano-Importer of Hand-Produced Spirits

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're not sure yet. ;) Hopefully, we will have some answers regarding distribution this week (fingers crossed...)

OK, thanks! Definitely interested if I can find a source.

So, the good news is that later this week, we'll be able to name a great online liquor store who ships to 46 states (sorry, TX, WV, NV and MA). For Nevada, our shipment to our distributor is heading out this week as we have received back our brand registration certificate from the state - and we should get clearance from Massachusetts to ship to our distributor there by next week at the latest. Any Texan bartenders out there have a recommendation for a good boutique distributor?


Edited by BittermensAG (log)

Avery Glasser

Bittermens, Inc. - Producers of Bittermens Bitters & Extracts

Bittermens Spirits, Inc. - Purveyors of Small Batch Bitter Liqueurs

Vendetta Spirits, LLC. - Nano-Importer of Hand-Produced Spirits

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any time frame available yet for when the Bitterman spirits like Amère Nouvelle and Amère Sauvage might be available on an internet retailer like Drinkupny or similar? Not much access down here in Atlanta (or anywhere near by) yet it would appear.

So, good news! Our products are finally available through DrinkUpNY. Here's a copy of the press release:

Bittermens Spirits at DrinkUpNY


Mayur Subbarao, aka "Mayur"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any time frame available yet for when the Bitterman spirits like Amère Nouvelle and Amère Sauvage might be available on an internet retailer like Drinkupny or similar? Not much access down here in Atlanta (or anywhere near by) yet it would appear.

So, good news! Our products are finally available through DrinkUpNY. Here's a copy of the press release:

Bittermens Spirits at DrinkUpNY

Oh sure! Now that they have dropped their free shipping policy to those of us out here in the sticks!

:laugh:


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suze was supposed to be imported into the U.S. in 2010 and has been spotted in liquor stores in New Orleans that year (the group of people I stayed with for Tales that year bought a bottle as they stocked the bed&breakfast's bar).

I encountered it at this year's Tales. My wife and I were drinking at Iris and the bartender kindly offered me a taste of it. It is truly unique; I'd love to get a hold of some eventually.


Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suze was supposed to be imported into the U.S. in 2010 and has been spotted in liquor stores in New Orleans that year (the group of people I stayed with for Tales that year bought a bottle as they stocked the bed&breakfast's bar).

I encountered it at this year's Tales. My wife and I were drinking at Iris and the bartender kindly offered me a taste of it. It is truly unique; I'd love to get a hold of some eventually.

Time for a trip to Montreal!


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suze was supposed to be imported into the U.S. in 2010 and has been spotted in liquor stores in New Orleans that year (the group of people I stayed with for Tales that year bought a bottle as they stocked the bed&breakfast's bar).

I encountered it at this year's Tales. My wife and I were drinking at Iris and the bartender kindly offered me a taste of it. It is truly unique; I'd love to get a hold of some eventually.

Time for a trip to Montreal!

I've got a friend in Montreal right now - he texted me to say he couldn't find the Suze. Damn!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suze was supposed to be imported into the U.S. in 2010 and has been spotted in liquor stores in New Orleans that year (the group of people I stayed with for Tales that year bought a bottle as they stocked the bed&breakfast's bar).

I encountered it at this year's Tales. My wife and I were drinking at Iris and the bartender kindly offered me a taste of it. It is truly unique; I'd love to get a hold of some eventually.

Time for a trip to Montreal!

I've got a friend in Montreal right now - he texted me to say he couldn't find the Suze. Damn!

From the SAQ's website, it looks like the only store that has it in downtown Montreal right now is the Signature store on Saint Catherine. If he's still there, he might give it a try!


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the SAQ's website, it looks like the only store that has it in downtown Montreal right now is the Signature store on Saint Catherine. If he's still there, he might give it a try!

The Montreal SAQ Signature store is awesome for weird and rare spirits, along with the limited release and greater aged expressions of more common brands. I scored some Combier cocoa eaux-de-vie a couple years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of rogue/beta cocktails last night.

The Start and Finish

I am not sure I liked that one. I used 1/4 oz pastis instead of 1/2 oz absinthe because I don't have absinthe (and don't love it in large amounts). It was a little too "all over the place" for me, with strong - and not always harmonious - herbal flavors introduced by the vermouth, lillet, averna, with a strong anise finish.

6824479401_aaef034dc0_z.jpg

Burned popcorn

This one is very good, with flavors from the flamed orange peels and aged rum playing well with the bourbon.

6824488479_ecc1ecf04e_z.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made the Warning Label tonight: Demerara rum 151, Cynar, Punt e Mes, orange bitters, grapefruit bitters (made by a friend), Campari rinse, lemon twist.

It is a well balanced cocktail, quite bitter as expected but the 151 helps tone it down somewhat with some caramel notes. You can smell and taste the grapefruit at the end with the Campari/grapefruit bitters combo. I feel it is a little on the syrupy side. Its flavor is very typical of most cocktails in the book.

7007398837_cd90e1facf_z.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't made the Warning Label as written because I just recently acquired LH151. I used Smith & Cross and it was wonderful (if a bit sweet). Another KC user suggested half S&C and half LH151.


Kindred Cocktails | Craft + Collect + Concoct + Categorize + Community

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally - finally - got around to making a Broken Shoe Shiner tonight. Magical drink. Rosewater and pastis... who knew?


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Start and Finish

I am not sure I liked that one. I used 1/4 oz pastis instead of 1/2 oz absinthe because I don't have absinthe (and don't love it in large amounts). It was a little too "all over the place" for me, with strong - and not always harmonious - herbal flavors introduced by the vermouth, lillet, averna, with a strong anise finish.

Tried this one the other day, for the first sip or two I agree with the "all over the place" assessment but as the ice melts it came together for me. It sounds counter-intuitive, but once the drink mellows just a bit the hefty amount of absinthe is actually beneficial by serving as a dominant flavor for the other ingredients to complement and transform (not to mention giving a little backbone via the high proof). I could see a smaller amount of pastis just muddying the waters further.


Edited by sbumgarner (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Mike.jj
      Hello Egullet family.. its good to be back on here, been away for a while, i hope to find some new trending recipes .. and be ready to get some African dish recipes for those who love African Dishes, You can Read and  Download  Mp3 Audios here of some Nigerian dishes, and there are more coming in which i would be placing on here.. Thanks
    • By FrogPrincesse
      I've been eying this book since I heard about its upcoming release. For me, a cocktail book with a French slant is a hugely appealling. I flipped through it at my local bookstore and was compelled to buy it when I saw a recipe calling for Byrrh, along with a few re-interpreted classics. The recipes are not overly complex and generally don't call for esoteric ingredients. If you have Sam Ross' Bartender's Choice app, it's in the same vein but with a definite French (and international) touch, with recipes calling for things like Suze, Armagnac or Japanese whisky.
       
      Measurements are given in milliliters and ounces, and were probably conceived in metric so they can be a bit unusual sometimes, but this is not a big deal at all. Each recipe is provided with a little background about its creation or general concept, which I always find the most interesting part of these types of books.
       
      The first thing I mixed was the Byrrh cocktail of course. It had quite a few other ingredients, but luckily I had everything already on hand.
       
      Handsome Jack (Chris Tanner) with Rittenhouse straight rye, Pierre Ferrand 1840, Aperol, Byrrh, green Chartreuse, maple syrup, Angostura and Peychaud's bitters.
       
      As indicated in the notes, it is slightly on the sweet side but it has a slight bitterness that compensates for that (from the Byrrh and Aperol). The flavor is deep and complex. There is almost like a chestnut note with the maple syrup and cognac, and a nice kick from the rye. A very good fall/winter drink.
       
       

       
      Review of the book on Eater.
       
       
    • By Lisa Shock
      The team over at Modernist Cuisine announced today that their next project will be an in-depth exploration of bread. I personally am very excited about this, I had been hoping their next project would be in the baking and pastry realm. Additionally, Francisco Migoya will be head chef and Peter Reinhart will assignments editor for this project which is expected to be a multi-volume affair.
    • By liuzhou
      Another great article from the great Harold McGee. "The Science of Herbs and Spices" on Lucky Peach.
       
      Fascinating as ever.
       
      Now I just need to find the Chinese for "chitosan".
    • By Secret_Ingredient
      I emailed OXO a while ago, asking if they could design and market a thermocouple based thermometer. I reasoned that with their market penetration, the cost would be in the same range of current thermometers. I never heard back and cannot guess why there was no response.
       
      Most consumer grade digital thermometers use a thermistor. I had one of the first Polder Probe/wire (or cable) thermos and I loved it. It had a cable or wire, shielded in a metal braid. The new ones, use a silicon covering. Most of the reviews say that probe breaks and Polder has addressed that by adding a "handle" (of sorts) to the probe. Reasonable care while inserting and extracting the probe would have been more sensible by the reviewers who broke there devices, but the handle works, too.
       
      Still, this device and as I said above, most all temperature reading devices use a thermistor, or even a bi-metal strip (don't call me a perv!). The thermocouple devices read a much more accurate temperature range. From here on I'm spelling thermocouple as t/c.
       
      The Cook's Country (and under a multitude of other names) commonly shows the Thermapen t/c. At $100 it's pricey for the kitchen, but not for what it is. I imagine there are loads of industrial, scientific, and technical uses for it. There the $100 is worth it. The website: Cooking For Engineers sells the device for a "MERE" $79.  That site reviews a number of thermometers and puts the t/c on top.
       
      So dear reader, I must ask, why have the OXO's and Sur La Tables, Williams-Sonomas, and the like not found a way to place a t/c probe in a thermometer?
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.