Overvalued Restaurants

[LPShanet]

MEGU

Tao, defo!!

La esquina. What a clip joint! They take reservations and make you wait 2 hours, then overcharge you.

I don't think Cookshop deserves to be on this list. It's not in the same category in price as a lot of the others.

←

To clarify something that appeared in the companion post (Undervalued restaurants), I'm pretty sure the thread was introduced to list restaurants that are overrated, not overpriced. The term "overvalued" is a bit confusing in that regard, but I'm pretty sure the original intention was to state that these places are overvalued in the sense of having huge popularity, and being liked/appreciated too much for their level of quality (not whether they're overpriced or not). To that end, those of us who mentioned Cookshop are referring to the food being nothing special despite all the early hype it got. I'd be interested to hear how those who have dealt with La Esquina felt about the food. I actually thought the food was its one redeeming quality. Not great, but decent...but the overall effect of the place can be insufferable.

N.B. I wrote this before noticing that Sneak had already cleared this up. But laziness took over and I'm leaving it intact under the guise of further clarification:)

Edited June 26, 2009 by LPShanet (log)

[LPShanet]

I'm unconvinced that Pastis is overrated, though I'm certainly willing to hear some explanations of why. However, every cocktail or food item I've had there has been quite good, as has my service, so to me, that constitutes fair value. It's pricey, but that's because of the location and ambiance..

←

FWIW, I agree with this.

In fact, Pastis would be at the head of my list of "Restaurants That Don't Need To Be Good But Nevertheless Are."

I think it speaks volumes for Keith McNally's integrity that he maintains the quality he does at a restaurant that would be a cash cow even if it served nothing but steaming plates of pigeon shit.

←

I think a lot of people would have put Balthazar even higher on that "better than they need to be" list, and I've always liked the food (and experience) there much better than at Pastis.

There are those who say he tried the latter (pigeon shit) approach at Morandi without success Still, I think people go totally nuts for Pastis, and while it's not bad at all, is it really deserving of the level of adulation it gets? (e.g. people salivating and saying that it's the best French restaurant in all of NYC, lines forming for hours, etc.) The thread is about the places being overvalued, so even if it's pretty good it can still be overvalued. I suppose I'm getting into pretty subjective territory, though.

Edited June 26, 2009 by LPShanet (log)

[Pan]

I've never gone to Pastis except late at night. I'd never wait on line for a table or spot at the bar there.

[raji]

To clarify something that appeared in the companion post (Undervalued restaurants), I'm pretty sure the thread was introduced to list restaurants that are overrated, not overpriced.  The term "overvalued" is a bit confusing in that regard, but I'm pretty sure the original intention was to state that these places are overvalued in the sense of having huge popularity, and being liked/appreciated too much for their level of quality (not whether they're overpriced or not).  To that end, those of us who mentioned Cookshop are referring to the food being nothing special despite all the early hype it got.  I'd be interested to hear how those who have dealt with La Esquina felt about the food.  I actually thought the food was its one redeeming quality.  Not great, but decent...but the overall effect of the place can be insufferable.

N.B.  I wrote this before noticing that Sneak had already cleared this up.  But laziness took over and I'm leaving it intact under the guise of further clarification:)

I get, and got, that - an "Overpriced" thread would be a whole other list.

I was saying Cookshop is not in the same category as some of the others in case others were making the same mistake

And the funny thing is I can go to Cookshop because for whatever reason I never caught wind of all it's undeserved hype, and without it, I can go there and happily see it as a pretty good price/quality ratio.... I didn't know it was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread so I was able to enjoy it for what it was

Edited June 26, 2009 by raji (log)

[oakapple]

I'm unconvinced that Pastis is overrated, though I'm certainly willing to hear some explanations of why.

←

This is what I wrote after a visit three years ago:

I had a mediocre steak tartare and a decent grilled sea bass. A not unhappy experience, but certainly nothing to justify the restaurant’s reputation. Tables are both small and uncomfortably close together, the noise level is loud, and menus double as placemats. At least the prices are reasonable.

You won’t eat badly at Pastis, but we could hardly see what all the fuss is about.

[weinoo]

To clarify something that appeared in the companion post (Undervalued restaurants), I'm pretty sure the thread was introduced to list restaurants that are overrated, not overpriced.  The term "overvalued" is a bit confusing in that regard, but I'm pretty sure the original intention was to state that these places are overvalued in the sense of having huge popularity, and being liked/appreciated too much for their level of quality (not whether they're overpriced or not).

←

Correct.

But I think there is an unstated price/value to quality in these topics as well. Take another McNally example, Schiller's. Wildy popular literally since the day it opened. Decent food - certainly not the best food in it's category, just good, decent food at the right price (good to great fries in the Balthzar, Pastis, Minetta Tavern tradition). Neither under nor over valued. However, if the prices at Schiller's were 50% higher, I would classify it in the overvalued category.

[Sneakeater]

If the prices were 50% higher, it might not be that crowded.

Really, weinoo, have you ever heard anyone call Schiller's great, as opposed to great for the price, or great for what it is?

Edited June 26, 2009 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

Still, I think people go totally nuts for Pastis, and while it's not bad at all, is it really deserving of the level of adulation it gets? (e.g.  people salivating and saying that it's the best French restaurant in all of NYC, lines forming for hours, etc.) 

←

I honestly haven't seen it get that response.

Everybody I know considers Pastis a tourist/B&T shitshow that they'd never go near. And I think that for tourist/B&T shitshow, it's food is remarkably good.

[Pan]

I'm unconvinced that Pastis is overrated, though I'm certainly willing to hear some explanations of why.

←

This is what I wrote after a visit three years ago:

I had a mediocre steak tartare and a decent grilled sea bass. A not unhappy experience, but certainly nothing to justify the restaurant’s reputation. Tables are both small and uncomfortably close together, the noise level is loud, and menus double as placemats. At least the prices are reasonable.

You won’t eat badly at Pastis, but we could hardly see what all the fuss is about.

←

If I ever have an experience like that there, I'll revise my opinion of the place.

[gastrodamus]

Still, I think people go totally nuts for Pastis, and while it's not bad at all, is it really deserving of the level of adulation it gets? (e.g.  people salivating and saying that it's the best French restaurant in all of NYC, lines forming for hours, etc.) 

←

I honestly haven't seen it get that response.

Everybody I know considers Pastis a tourist/B&T shitshow that they'd never go near. And I think that for tourist/B&T shitshow, it's food is remarkably good.

←

if you live in new york long enough, you'll inevitably end up at pastis most likely against your will. the crowd is awful and the food is just ok. you compare pastis to say a place like 26 seats, it is highly overvalued.

[Pan]

if you live in new york long enough, you'll inevitably end up at pastis most likely against your will. the crowd is awful and the food is just ok. you compare pastis to say a place like 26 seats, it is highly overvalued.

←

Now that's information I can use. Specific comparisons are great.

[weinoo]

If the prices were 50% higher, it might not be that crowded.

Really, weinoo, have you ever heard anyone call Schiller's great, as opposed to great for the price, or great for what it is?

←

I don't know that I've ever heard anyone reviewing the restaurant or on the food boards call Schiller's great, but I don't see how that matters. I've overheard people at the next table say "man, these fries are great." Or "these garlic shrimp are great." Or 'this is a yummy tuna burger" (my wife). To each their own, I guess.

[LPShanet]

Still, I think people go totally nuts for Pastis, and while it's not bad at all, is it really deserving of the level of adulation it gets? (e.g.  people salivating and saying that it's the best French restaurant in all of NYC, lines forming for hours, etc.) 

←

I honestly haven't seen it get that response.

Everybody I know considers Pastis a tourist/B&T shitshow that they'd never go near. And I think that for tourist/B&T shitshow, it's food is remarkably good.

←

What you say about Pastis is totally accurate. The people giving it that response aren't "foodies". But aside from small places that can fill up on foodies alone (Ko, etc.), the ravages of extreme popularity are almost always fueled by non-foodies. And for what it's worth, the hip set lines up like crazy to go there for brunch and certain other mealtimes. These aren't foodies, but they aren't B&T either. They've just been told that it's the best French place around by other scenesters.

[sxr71]

1.  Whatever the name of the restaurant in the Bowery Hotel is.

2.  Tao.

3.  The place that begins with "O" on 57th & Lex.

←

Gemma. Completely agree. Way overvalued.

[Steve R.]

Still, I think people go totally nuts for Pastis, and while it's not bad at all, is it really deserving of the level of adulation it gets? (e.g.  people salivating and saying that it's the best French restaurant in all of NYC, lines forming for hours, etc.) 

←

I honestly haven't seen it get that response.

Everybody I know considers Pastis a tourist/B&T shitshow that they'd never go near. And I think that for tourist/B&T shitshow, it's food is remarkably good.

←

What you say about Pastis is totally accurate. The people giving it that response aren't "foodies". But aside from small places that can fill up on foodies alone (Ko, etc.), the ravages of extreme popularity are almost always fueled by non-foodies. And for what it's worth, the hip set lines up like crazy to go there for brunch and certain other mealtimes. These aren't foodies, but they aren't B&T either. They've just been told that it's the best French place around by other scenesters.

←

I know people who go there. And you're correct...it's word of mouth "the best French place" but that isnt generally about the food. I dont think those that go expect anything other than what they're getting. To non-foodies, its not even mostly about the food.

By the way, we passed it today on the way to see the Highline (what a GREAT new NYC attraction). Pastis was full of very nice looking people smiling and having a good time. Lots of them looked like NY'ers, although being from Bklyn makes me a "B&T" I assume? My guess is that just about every one of them will tell others to go there.

[Sneakeater]

How many times do I have to explain this: nowadays, B&T means Manhattan.

[Pan]

How many times do I have to explain this:  nowadays, B&T means Manhattan.

←

No it doesn't. Though I know at least one Manhattanite who has a B&T attitude. But it certainly no longer means Brooklyn.

[oakapple]

Well...that's part of the problem with the B&T label. Its meaning is totally dependent on the biases of the person uttering it.