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Sitram Cookware


jsmeeker

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Over in the "waste of money" topic, many people have suggested that Sitram cookware is a great alternative to very popular (and pricey) brands such as All-Clad. I am not very familair with this line of cookware. I did some research, and found their website

http://frieling.com/products/cookware/

I see two different stainless steel lines. The "Catering" line and "Profiserie". I see the pics of their skillets, and the sides of them look pretty steep. I would think that would be a disadvantage.

What do people like about this brand of cookware? Where can I get my hands on it in a brick and mortar shop?

Jeff Meeker, aka "jsmeeker"

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I have two skillets, the 26cm and 34cm in the Catering line. The Catering line has a thick copper/stainless bottom (2.5mm copper). The Profiserie line has an aluminum bottom that I believe is suitable for induction. The catering line does not work with induction.

Heat distribution is very even across the bottom of the pan, at least with the Catering line, and Sitram is easy to clean and absolutely solid. The copper is thicker than the copper in All Clad's copper core, and the construction generally feels more rugged than anything made by All Clad. The handles are also welded, so there are no rivets to get in the way of cleaning.

In New York I've seen it at Bridge (which is now in NJ) and Zabar's. Dvorson's on the west coast carries the complete line.

Edited by David A. Goldfarb (log)
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I have a set I bought from Costco a few years ago. I believe it's the Profeserie line. While you asked what people like about it, I'll tell you what I don't like -- things often burn around the bottom edge, where the disk stops. Liquids tend to spatter. Maybe I have the heat too high, but it doesn't happen with my other cookware. At this point, I can't help but think "cheap" when I look at them.

Ironically, I'm planning on replacing these with the All Clad Copper Core. I know that most here would suggest copper instead, but I have one Falk copper saucier and, while I use it often, I don't care for the clean up. I'm not into the well-used copper look. I know All Clad requires clean up to keep it looking nice, but in my opinion copper *deserves* to look clean and shiny! I love how it looks after I scrub it down with BKF. Plus, the handle is constantly rusting, even with the occasional mineral oil application (interesting that this hasn't happened to my Mauviel saucepan).

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Jeff, I don't know of any B&M store in the DFW area that carries it. Perhaps someone knows of one in another city. Bridger in Manhattan used to, but I think they stopped carrying it. I got mine on Amazon, where the prices fluctuate widely and you can wait for a low price on any item.

If you are looking for something similar, I suggest checking out Ace Restaurant supply. You may also be interested in the Sur La Table house brand.

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I don't buy the premise here -- that Sitram, or any line of cookware -- is an "alternative" to All-Clad. That presumes that All-Clad is the categorical first choice, and everything else is somehow a compromise. When I look at cookware, All-Clad is not among the choices I consider. It's over-priced, and often over-designed: why should I pay for side cladding on a saute pan (I'm pretty sure it's irrelevant on most pots, too)? Why do I have to put up with awkward handles on an expensive skillet? What's with the rivets? Why does it warp?

There are lots of choices. Much depends on what you cook, how you cook it, and how much money you have. Assuming that All Clad is functionally the best and rating other lines according to its specs skews those options.

Having said all that, I've picked up Sitram Profisserie at . . . TJ Maxx.

Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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[FYI, the actual Sitram corporate website.]

I'd thought of starting a thread about cookware to consider instead of All-Clad, but you beat me to it! However, in addition to Sitram, don't forget about Paderno, Vollrath and Lincoln:

http://www.paderno.it//html/home.php?PHPSE...957a956〈=en

http://www.vollrathco.com/catalog_browse.jsp?id=193

http://www.lincolnsmallwares.com/ProductMap1.cfm?id=1

I have pieces from Sitram, Paderno (Italian, not Canadian) and Lincoln, and it's all good. I buy individual pieces according to price and duty requirements -- not because something is on sale or promotion. I've saved a LOT of money that way; every single piece was cheaper than the equivalent All-Clad piece, and for all I know they perform exactly the same...

So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money. But when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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In the minds of many, All-Clad IS the categorical first choice. They market the hell out of their products, they are available everywhere, and I would bet that a very substantial number of eGullet Society members have (or used to have) at least one piece of All-Clad. I think it provides a very useful baseline for comparison for that reason alone. Is there a lot of cookware out there that is better? Of course. There is also a shit ton of cookware that is worse.

Comparing to All-Clad gives us a useful starting point for a price point and quality. We are not talking about Mauviel Copper here, nor are we talking about Walmart Store Brand.

Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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Maybe places like costco have it for cheap, but whenever i see Sitram it's surprisingly pricy. Looks like cheap, commodity commercial fare, but the prices rival online prices for All Clad.

And i don't like the stuff. In general, I find the disks on the bottom of the pans to be too thick. They do a good job of even conduction and heat retention, but responsiveness is terrible. Not an an issue on things like stock pots, but there are much cheaper, equally functional stockpots available.

And I don't like that the disks stop short of the edges.

I don't know where people get the idea that All Clad is expensive. Look at any other clad, high quality brand that uses similar materials: Demeyere, Mauviel, Matfer. They all cost more.

Notes from the underbelly

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I'm sure that the makers of Sitram, long considered one of the premiere professional cookware lines, would be amused to know that some people might think of them as an "alternative to All-Clad."

In reality, Dave makes a good point, which is that there is really not a meaningful point of comparison. All-Clad is clad straight gauge cookware whereas the kind of Sitram we're talking about* are disk-bottom designs. Disk-bottom pans and clad straight gauge cookware have different advantages and limitations. For a larger saucepan, or a tall saucepan, for a rondeau, for a stock pot, for a sauté pan the disk-bottom design has many advantages. For frypans, smaller saucepans, reduction pans and sauteuses evasée, straight gauge has some advantages.

All of which is to say that Sitram's disk-bottom pans aren't properly described as "alternatives" to All-Clad so much as they are simply different. An "alternative" to All-Clad would be one of the other clad straight gauge pans, such as Calphalon's Tri-Ply Stainless, certain Demeyere pans, Mauviel's M'Cook, Vollrath Tribute, Le Creuset Tri-Ply and countless other lines of stainless clad aluminum core straight gauge cookware.

* It's not clear to me that "Catering" and "Profisserie" are really the applicable terms anymore, as Sitram has not listed these in their product materials for some time.

--

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For an amateur home cook starting to do research into what cookware to buy, EVERYTHING is an alternative to All-Clad: there is simply no denying that they have positioned themselves as the point of comparison. I think at this point it is a given that the feelings among the cookware experts here is that All-Clad is a crummy value. Now, what are the alternatives? Say I don't mind spending All-Clad prices on a good frying pan (my most used pan), but I don't insist on it if the best costs less. Now, what should I buy instead?

Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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For an amateur home cook starting to do research into what cookware to buy, EVERYTHING is an alternative to All-Clad: there is simply no denying that they have positioned themselves as the point of comparison. I think at this point it is a given that the feelings among the cookware experts here is that All-Clad is a crummy value. Now, what are the alternatives? Say I don't mind spending All-Clad prices on a good frying pan (my most used pan), but I don't insist on it if the best costs less. Now, what should I buy instead?

Chris, not to toot my own horn, but I did write an entire eGCI class on this subject, and would humbly suggest that at least the beginnings to your answers can be found there -- if in nothing more than learning the right questions to ask.

--

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First, I have some All-Clad, and it's warped. Second, I've been cooking for 45 years. Over the last two, I've been teaching in a professional kitchen. In hands-on classes, students are always saying, "But I thought All-Clad wouldn't warp!" while watching butter melt at the far (or near) end of the pan.

In my experience (which admittedly isn't complete; I've not cooked with Falk or Mauviel, for example, but I've had the opportunity to work with many other brands), the only cookware that doesn't warp is Demeyere and Bourgeat.

Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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* It's not clear to me that "Catering" and "Profisserie" are really the applicable terms anymore, as Sitram has not listed these in their product materials for some time.

Looking at the website, I think that's right. It looks like the Profiserie line is now called "Pro 1" and the Catering line is "Pro 2" and there is a line called "Pro 3" which has both copper and an induction compatible disk, and then there are Cybernox lines, which have a less sticky surface, and there's a pro nonstick line, and another line with more rounded designs, and there are various household lines in different styles.

As far as the issue of scorching beyond the disk, that's just a matter of adjusting the flame for the size of the pan, which is a good idea no matter what kind of cookware one uses.

Edited by David A. Goldfarb (log)
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Just to clarify, I've found that most people don't even know when their cookware is warped. They think warped means bent and contorted like it has been in a car wreck. But most warping occurs at the level of a millimeter or two, such that even on a perfectly flat stovetop (bearing in mind that a lot of people don't have their stoves properly leveled either) something placed in the pan will roll to one side. Depending on what you're cooking, this may or may not be a problem. For example, for boiling water it's irrelevant. It certainly makes it difficult to coat a skillet with a little fat, though.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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To clarify further, high heat alone won't warp a pot or pan. It's the uneven application of heat (or cold, as in what happens when you toss a scorching pan into a sink full of suds) that precipitates the problem. None of us should be doing that. But to paraphrase what Sam said elsewhere, cookware that's listed at 200+ dollars shouldn't warp, period.

Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.

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First, I have some All-Clad, and it's warped.

Which line of their pans?

I only have one All Clad pan--a 10" stainless clad fryingpan--but it has been used relentlessly on heat high enough to set off smoke alarms, deglazed, thrown in the sink, and used as a roasting pan at temps up to 550 degrees F. Not even a hint of warping.

And I've warped all kinds of cookware, especially heavy aluminum (anodized and unanodized), to the point where I've had to bang it back into an approximation of flatness with a mallet.

The allclad seems right up there with my stainless lined copper and cast iron when it comes to warp resistance.

I still don't get the idea that AC is expensive. Who makes decent quality clad cookware that's cheaper?

Notes from the underbelly

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Who makes decent quality clad cookware that's cheaper?

As I mentioned above, Vollrath Tribute.

So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money. But when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Yeah, the Tribute pans are a bargain and seem like a reasonable alternative. I haven't used them, so I don't what cooking on them is like, or how they hold up. They are certainly more cheaply made, in ways that may be purely superficial ... lower quality finish, more reactive 18-8 steel interior.

I would still consider All Clad a bargain compared with pans like Demeyere and Mauviel M'cook. These may be better quality, but in some cases cost more than twice as much as AC.

Notes from the underbelly

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Looking at the website, I think that's right.  It looks like the Profiserie line is now called "Pro 1" and the Catering line is "Pro 2" and there is a line called "Pro 3" which has both copper and an induction compatible disk, and then there are Cybernox lines, which have a less sticky surface, and there's a pro nonstick line, and another line with more rounded designs, and there are various household lines in different styles.

In other words, it looks like they've started marketing in earnest...sort of like, ummm, All-Clad.

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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Yeah, the Tribute pans are a bargain and seem like a reasonable alternative. I haven't used them, so I don't what cooking on them is like, or how they hold up. They are certainly more cheaply made, in ways that may be purely superficial ... lower quality finish, more reactive 18-8 steel interior.

Those are some pretty tiny nits you're picking there. 18-8 versus 18-10? Satin finish versus polished finish? Really?!

Meanwhile, for whatever it's worth, the Vollrath Tribute pans are made primarily for restaurant use, and seem to have a significantly sturdier construction -- not to mention better details such as the rolled lip on their saucepans, etc.

--

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Looking at the website, I think that's right.  It looks like the Profiserie line is now called "Pro 1" and the Catering line is "Pro 2" and there is a line called "Pro 3" which has both copper and an induction compatible disk, and then there are Cybernox lines, which have a less sticky surface, and there's a pro nonstick line, and another line with more rounded designs, and there are various household lines in different styles.

In other words, it looks like they've started marketing in earnest...sort of like, ummm, All-Clad.

No, I doubt you'll be seeing any full page advertisements for Sitram in every cooking magazine in town. At its heart, Sitram is fundamentally a producer of cookware for professional kitchens.

They have always had a copper-bottomed line (formerly "catering") and an aluminum-bottomed line (formerly "profisserie"), and when induction became something that was used in commercial kitchens, they produced an induction compatible version of the "catering" line.

The various household lines are significantly different, and more "design-y" than the heavy-duty professional lines. I suspect that the cheap deals one can get on Sitram cookware at CostCo and other places actually buys you one of these lesser lines (I suggest this because, while I have never heard any complaints as to the performance or heavy-dutyness of the professional stuff bought from a commercial outlet such as Bridge, etc., I have heard complaints about the stuff from CostCo).

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