Restaurants where it's most worth being a regular

[Sneakeater]

I went to Felidia once with someone known to the restaurant, and although they paid a lot of attention to us, the experience wasn't that great.

The special food turned out to be not so special, the special wine pairings verged from the bizarre to the mediocre to the quite good . . . I'd have rather been eating incongito. I'll bet my host would have, too.

Also, you frequently hear how nice Suvir et al. at Devi (admittedly not a NYT three-star restaurant) are to people they know, but similarly, my one meal there with a known person was no better, and in some ways was worse, than my normal meals there.

I don't know if this is a reflection on those kitchens (and I should emphasize that Devi, at least, is a restaurant I have only the highest regard for). I think that even more it's that sometimes being fussed over actually lessens rather than heightens the experience -- at least if the restaurant isn't capable of attaining the stratospheric levels (and perhaps more importantly, the seamless service) of a per se.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Sneakeater (log)

[oakapple]

As a starting point, here are the lists of current four- and three-star restaurants from the New York Times website....

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For some reason, the Times is only listing those places Frank Bruni has reviewed, which is a bit odd. I am quite sure that Tom Colicchio still believes he is a three-star chef, even though the stars came from Biff Grimes.

These, to my knowledge, are the three-star restaurants named by Reichl or Grimes that Bruni has not either re-confirmed or demoted:

Aquavit

Chanterelle

Craft

Gotham Bar & Grill

JoJo

Kurumazushi

La Grenouille

Nobu & Next Door Nobu (but Bruni did review Nobu 57)

Sushi Yasuda (visited by Bruni in Dining Briefs)

Tabla

Union Square Café

Veritas

[David A. Goldfarb]

I once had dinner at Le Cirque with a regular who spent a fair amount on fine and rare wines when they were still at the Helmsley Palace (or was it called the New York Palace by then? anyway, same hotel), and I didn't get the sense that we were getting a lot of comps, though Mr. Maccioni greeted us cordially and quickly ushered us to the bar while we waited for the rest of the party to arrive. Our host ordered a fairly simple dish that wasn't on the menu as I recall, because I suppose that if Le Cirque is your neighborhood diner, sometimes you just want a simple meal prepared well, and the kitchen had no problem with his request. He was a wealthy enough person that free desserts and such were irrelevant, but he enjoyed being recognized and welcomed as a frequent guest and getting a table quickly any time he wanted one.

[slkinsey]

I have often thought with respect to 3- and 4-star retaurants that, if you can afford to become a "regular" there, comping becomes pretty meaningless as a perk. I mean, it's nice to get some extra courses at Per Se or whatever, but it's really more about the extra attention and improved access once you reach a level of affluence that lets you become a regular at these places.

Or... how many times does one have to go to become a "regular" at these places? Once a month? Once a quarter?

[oakapple]

I have often thought with respect to 3- and 4-star retaurants that, if you can afford to become a "regular" there, comping becomes pretty meaningless as a perk.  I mean, it's nice to get some extra courses at Per Se or whatever, but it's really more about the extra attention and improved access once you reach a level of affluence that lets you become a regular at these places.

Particularly under Bruni, that distinction has eroded considerably. Obviously Per Se is in a price category by itself, with dinner there costing two or three times as much as it costs at almost any other 3- or 4-star restaurant except Masa. But the three-star ranks also include places like Convivio, where you can get four courses for $59 and nearly all entrées are below $30. It also includes Ssäm Bar, of which no more needs be said.

Or... how many times does one have to go to become a "regular" at these places?  Once a month?  Once a quarter?

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I think it's a sliding scale. At some restaurants, I've noticed a significant difference on just a second or third visit.

[Fat Guy]

Some people buy Nikes . . .

The buy-in at the standard price tier of three-to-four-star places is about $300-$400 for a party of two for a meal with a conservative drink budget.

So, for example, Gramercy Tavern for dinner:

Prix-fixe menu $86 per person = $172

Beverage budget of $75

Subtotal = $247

Gratuity = $50

Tax = $21.29

Total = $318.29

Here's a sampling of prix-fixe dinner menu prices at nice restaurants. Several of these places do lunch at a considerable discount, but these are the dinner menu prices:

Gramercy $86

EMP $88

The Modern $88

Le Bernardin $109

Jean Georges $98

Daniel $105

Picholine $92

Of course when you get into Per Se and Masa it's a different story. But let's say $400 a pop for each incidence of buy-in at dinner at many of the best restaurants in the city.

Now I don't know how much any given person here spends per year on dining out. So it's hard to offer an exact analysis. But I can tell just from reading people's posts that we have plenty of members spending many thousands of dollars a year on dining out. There are different ways to allocate that money. But for some people it's worth allocating half that sum to supporting regular visits (whether quarterly, monthly or weekly) to a single restaurant or a couple of restaurants, and the rest to playing the field, sampling the occasional high-end place and spending the rest at neighborhood restaurants and other non-extravagant meals. For those who place a high value on the treatment regulars receive, that's the way to do it.

[Fat Guy]

I would think it would help at Rao's. Il Mulino.

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I realize this was meant tongue in cheek, but it's worth noting Rao's for a moment. The only way to eat at Rao's is if you're a regular or a guest of a regular. So nobody really knows how non-regulars are treated. It makes the analysis difficult.

I was a regular at Il Mulino for about a year in the late '90s, when I worked downtown and had the budget for that sort of thing. I'm not sure there's any food benefit to being a regular there. It's just easier to get in. But you get offered the same stuff as everybody else, and you pay the same.

[Fat Guy]

Or... how many times does one have to go to become a "regular" at these places?  Once a month?  Once a quarter?

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With any luck, twice. That's especially true if you plan for it: go for the first time when the restaurant is least busy, engage in heavy interaction with the staff, introduce yourself, take names, etc. If you then return soon after (the next day is most effective) and re-engage with the staffers you dealt with the first time, chances are you'll have bought into whatever system of VIP treatment the restaurant has.

Once you're in the system as VIP, soigne, PX, whatever, it doesn't entirely matter how often you go. If you go back a year later, provided you've kept your same name and phone number, that's still going to be in the computer. Even if nobody working at the restaurant knows who the heck you are -- even if there has been a complete staff turnover -- that information will still come up when you reserve. It will still be announced at the service meeting. A soigne chit will still be handed off to your server by the maitre d'.

Of course there are levels of VIP-ness, both vertically (within a restaurant) and horizontally (from restaurant to restaurant). At some restaurants, as discussed above, the only benefit to being a repeat customer is that you get to pay to eat there a lot. But at others there's a whole range of possibilities. If you go to Daniel four days a week (some people do) or you routinely spend thousands of dollars on wine you're going to be in a different category. That's when Daniel Boulud starts personally making you some old-school virtuoso French dishes involving whole animals stuffed into other whole animals. But earning the basic designation needn't be an outrageously expensive proposition, especially if you do it at a restaurant that offers a lunch service.

[David A. Goldfarb]

In the days before computerized reservations and the internet it was apparently possible to present oneself as a regular and get some special attention. My father was particularly good at this.

He and my mother owned a jewelry store in Cleveland and used to come to New York on business once or twice a year, and if there was a restaurant he wanted to try, he would approach the maitre d' with a certain degree of familiarity and say something along the lines of, "I'm sorry we didn't call ahead, but it was such a long day, and you know how much my wife loves the stone crabs. She just had to come here tonight, so if you could squeeze us in, we don't mind waiting. We'll just sit at the bar and have a drink." The worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't get a table, but surprisingly, this ruse often worked.

Once the restaurant manager came out and said, "I'm so sorry doctor, we don't have your usual table tonight, but let me take care of your drinks, and we'll have another table right away." He never found out who the doctor was that he looked like, but he managed to hold up appearances through dinner.

Edited June 23, 2009 by David A. Goldfarb (log)

[ELA]

I would think it would help at Rao's. Il Mulino.

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I realize this was meant tongue in cheek, but it's worth noting Rao's for a moment. The only way to eat at Rao's is if you're a regular or a guest of a regular. So nobody really knows how non-regulars are treated. It makes the analysis difficult.

I was a regular at Il Mulino for about a year in the late '90s, when I worked downtown and had the budget for that sort of thing. I'm not sure there's any food benefit to being a regular there. It's just easier to get in. But you get offered the same stuff as everybody else, and you pay the same.

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Agreed. Regarding Rao's, we all know about the "condo" kind of thing. I am not sure if it still works religiously that way today, but it used to. I know one thing -- I am not getting in, LOL.

On Il Mulino, you know, at a certain point, I don't think it's about free food or comps. Yes, when the restaurant buys me dessert, or an after dinner drink, yes, it feels good to be appreciated and that counts for something. However, at a certain point, for me, being a regular is simply having people remember me, give me a personal "hello" kind of thing, and most of all -- simply getting in.

I don't call in favors and try to get in to a place "now" or tonight. But if I want to go to Il Mulino a few weeks out, it's a bit disconcerting to have to jump through hoops, call someone, call a friend, etc.

Thanks.

Eric

[Sneakeater]

No offense to anyone's parents, but I don't think defrauding a business is particularly admirable.

[David A. Goldfarb]

It was another era. The most it got him usually was the privilege of paying for dinner and a good story.

Edited June 23, 2009 by David A. Goldfarb (log)

[Fat Guy]

I'm not sure it counts as fraud as such.

But anyway, a tangentially related story: we have friends whose father has the exact same name -- first, middle initial and last -- as a major, big-time regular at a major, big-time restaurant in New York City. This isn't somebody terribly famous -- it's not like his name was Paul Newman or anything like that -- it's just that in this particular restaurant's subculture this guy was a wildly important customer. In any event, without knowing any of this, our friend's father called one day to make a reservation at this restaurant. He was like, hi, do you have a table at 8pm on Friday night, tomorrow night, in the middle of Christmas season, and the reservationist was like, no, but let us put you on our waiting list, and he gave his name, and she was like, oh, Mr. X., why didn't you say so, of course we have a table for you! This restaurant is just big enough, just computerized enough, with just enough different shifts of managers and staff, that when our friend's father arrived nobody really figured out that he wasn't the VIP. They handed off a super-soigne chit to the captain and the kitchen, and he got taken care of like nobody's business. Over time, he would go occasionally to the restaurant, and always be treated like a king. One day, the real VIP died. Soon after, our friend's father made another reservation. It was only then that anybody at the restaurant figured out that there were two guys with that name. But by then our friend's father had become a regular in his own right. Nobody minded. It just became a funny story. He's still a beloved regular there to this day.

[jimk]

It's funny, there are places where I've been a million times that still don't recognize me and others where I've only been a few times, but some event or other happened that made the staff remember me. Don't have the income to be a real regular at any of the 3 star places but there are a few that know and recognize us - we had our wedding dinner at Gramercy Tavern, which usually makes getting a reservation at a decent time a bit easier, and sometimes results in a comped drink or dessert.

There's another 3-star that I visited once with a critic who was clearly recognized during our dinner. No overtly special treatment (at that dinner or at prior or subsequent meals), but the service is perhaps warmer than it previously was. On one subsequent visit when there were a couple of minor problems (a corked wine, an overcooked fish dish from the tasting menu that had to be redone) the service recovery was above and beyond what I would have expected in normal circumstances.

There's a 2-star in our neighborhood that we go to probably once every couple of months ... we're friendly enough with the GM and chef that we're recognized and warmly greeted when we dine there, and often (but not always) get a surprise mid-course dish - usually something new on the menu that Chef thinks we'd enjoy.

Another place in our neighborhood, steps from our apartment, reserves much of their real-estate for walk-ins, and there's often a long wait. They know us well enough though that we can call down and they'll put us on the list for a table without making us present ourselves in person (which is nice because we live in a 6th floor walkup). They'll then call us when the table is just about ready.

A bit off topic, but my wife and I were lucky enough to join (fairly new) friends visiting town a few weeks ago for drinks at the bar of Del Posto and experienced real VIP treatment for the first time. One of of the two is Chef/founder of a deservedly famous Michelin-starred restaurant overseas, the other is the restaurant's co-founder. It was pretty unbelievable to watch what happened when the moment of recognition occured, with a visit to the table from Ladner, and an endless parade of mindblowing snacks from the kitchen.

Edited June 23, 2009 by jimk (log)

[ellenost]

I've been a regular at Momofuku Ko (about a dozen times in the past year), and while I don't receive any special/extra/free courses, there is definitely a recognition/friendliness factor from the staff. For instance, if the chefs have changed a course, they sometimes ask me whether I like it. I brought my sister with me for the first time, and the staff was very welcoming to her.

I've also been a regular at Aureole during the past six years. It will be interesting to see whether my "status" will change in their new location. They've recently changed chefs (Christopher Lee took over at the end of 2008). The prior two chefs were always very friendly to me and my sister (they would come down from the kitchen and chat with us); many times we would receive extra courses. The sommelier also changed two years ago. The former sommelier became like a brother to us; we would sometimes receive complimentary tastings for special occasions. I've just learned that Aureole's long-time maitre d' has left; he also was "family" to us, and we always looked forward to seeing him. To me, he was the "heart" of Aureole, and he will definitely be missed. I think we saw the new maitre d' at Aureole's preview cocktail party last week--the "warmth" factor was almost frozen. I imagine (or hope) that when I return to Aureole after they re-open in a few weeks, I will be treated nicely, but I know it will take a while to regain my "regular status". I guess the moral of the story is that one's regular status depends on the constancy of the staff.

Edited June 23, 2009 by ellenost (log)

[ELA]

In the days before computerized reservations and the internet it was apparently possible to present oneself as a regular and get some special attention.  My father was particularly good at this.

He and my mother owned a jewelry store in Cleveland and used to come to New York on business once or twice a year, and if there was a restaurant he wanted to try, he would approach the maitre d' with a certain degree of familiarity and say something along the lines of, "I'm sorry we didn't call ahead, but it was such a long day, and you know how much my wife loves the stone crabs.  She just had to come here tonight, so if you could squeeze us in, we don't mind waiting.  We'll just sit at the bar and have a drink."  The worst that could happen would be that they wouldn't get a table, but surprisingly, this ruse often worked.

Once the restaurant manager came out and said, "I'm so sorry doctor, we don't have your usual table tonight, but let me take care of your drinks, and we'll have another table right away."  He never found out who the doctor was that he looked like, but he managed to hold up appearances through dinner.

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That was your dad!!! Geez, I had been looking for the guy who took my table.

LOL.

[daisy17]

No offense to anyone's parents, but I don't think defrauding a business is particularly admirable.

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Oh, come on! No one lied - he just had the guts to pretend he'd been there before. I liked it.

[David A. Goldfarb]

It's probably worth remembering that the standard methods for traveling and getting a reservation in a nice restaurant, presuming you knew where you wanted to go in advance and when you would be free, were not exactly transparent and up front. People didn't make so many long distance calls even 25 years ago as we do today, and you couldn't just go online and make a reservation somewhere or even look up a phone number in another city without going to a major library or calling information for that city, which was itself a long distance call. I suppose corporate types had budgets and secretaries to take care of such things, but otherwise, you might grease the palm of a concierge at your hotel who had connections and probably got a kickback from the restaurant for sending customers their way.

[Sneakeater]

OK. I'm sorry. Really. I shouldn't have said that.

[David A. Goldfarb]

That's okay. No offense taken.

[Fat Guy]

I've been a regular at Momofuku Ko (about a dozen times in the past year), and while I don't receive any special/extra/free courses, there is definitely a recognition/friendliness factor from the staff.  For instance, if the chefs have changed a course, they sometimes ask me whether I like it.  I brought my sister with me for the first time, and the staff was very welcoming to her.

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This to me comes about as close to zero value added as possible. No help with reservations, no extra food, no special food, no special treatment other than a smile and conversation. Which isn't to say it isn't worth eating at Momofuku Ko ten, twelve or more times. It just means that what you get for your investment is simply that number of meals at Momofuku Ko. You don't get anything more of notable value, as you would at most restaurants at that price point.

[ellenost]

I've been a regular at Momofuku Ko (about a dozen times in the past year), and while I don't receive any special/extra/free courses, there is definitely a recognition/friendliness factor from the staff.  For instance, if the chefs have changed a course, they sometimes ask me whether I like it.  I brought my sister with me for the first time, and the staff was very welcoming to her.

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This to me comes about as close to zero value added as possible. No help with reservations, no extra food, no special food, no special treatment other than a smile and conversation. Which isn't to say it isn't worth eating at Momofuku Ko ten, twelve or more times. It just means that what you get for your investment is simply that number of meals at Momofuku Ko. You don't get anything more of notable value, as you would at most restaurants at that price point.

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I like to think of dining at Momofuku Ko as excellent value since I'm dining at a restaurant that serves creative and delicious cuisine. I love the fact that Ko's menu is always changing. There are a number of restaurants that simply never change their menu (or change it very infrequently), that the continually changing menu makes frequent visits to Ko very valuable to me.

[Fat Guy]

It's not that it's a bad value. I think Momofuku Ko is a good value. I've eaten there a lot. I like the place a lot. There is, however, a negligible amount of value added for regulars. Indeed, the whole design of the reservation system is specifically anti-regulars. It places no value on regulars. If you're getting any value added as a regular, it's because individual staff are happy to see a familiar face, not because of any sort of institutional priority that says regulars are valuable and should be cultivated. This may work for Ko but would be a disastrous business decision for most any other restaurant.

[MichaelCE]

While I eat out in upscale restaurants a fair amount, I'm not a regular anywhere. But I see a big difference in our treatment between those places who recognize a knowledgable diner in the first few minutes and those who don't, such as Daniel (not recent) or Jean Georges.

Two questions:

Is there some cross referencing of people on Open Table shared by restaurants?

Do those of you who have dined many times at Momofuku Ko expect us to believe that you are not getting preference in reservations?

[ellenost]

Do those of you who have dined many times at Momofuku Ko expect us to believe that you are not getting preference in reservations?

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I can vouch for the no preference in reservations at Momofuku Ko. Just tried this morning, and I was shut out (again).