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are they ever going to change the damned menu?

Yes!

It's now £115.

(Could HB have got a tip-off? It's not long until Restaurant Magazine publish their 50 Best. Perhaps he's number one again)

Hi Zoticus no the price change is for that the tasting menu now is changing and more expensive pruduce and more work intensive dishes are added. 2007 is gonna be a very interesting year!

Mag

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I ate here on Friday night and it was another absolutely first class meal. Great sense of theatre and humour, confidence without arrogance. Most importantly, delicious food. I swapped in 5 dishes from the carte to the tasting, whereas my girlfriend stuck with the original.

I'll write up a full report if I get a moment. Lots of subtle improvements on dishes I have had before, like the sardines on toast sorbet. And the new way they serve the bacon and egg ice cream is genius.

My only quibble - the fish course is the weakest. I didn't particularly care for the salmon poached in liquorice before, and the turbot replacement was a little bland and uninteresting. Looking around the room, most of the diners were peeling off the liquorice layer. And the other fish dish on the carte, sole veronique, has not been well received by friends of mine who have had it.

Magnus, are you a chef there? Would be intersted to hear your thoughts on the fish course. Met Heston too - he seems a thoroughly nice chap, with some interesting ideas in the pipeline.

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I ate here on Friday night and it was another absolutely first class meal. Great sense of theatre and humour, confidence without arrogance. Most importantly, delicious food. I swapped in 5 dishes from the carte to the tasting, whereas my girlfriend stuck with the original.

I'll write up a full report if I get a moment. Lots of subtle improvements on dishes I have had before, like the sardines on toast sorbet. And the new way they serve the bacon and egg ice cream is genius.

My only quibble - the fish course is the weakest. I didn't particularly care for the salmon poached in liquorice before, and the turbot replacement was a little bland and uninteresting. Looking around the room, most of the diners were peeling off the liquorice layer. And the other fish dish on the carte, sole veronique, has not been well received by friends of mine who have had it.

Magnus, are you a chef there? Would be intersted to hear your thoughts on the fish course. Met Heston too - he seems a thoroughly nice chap, with some interesting ideas in the pipeline.

Yes i work in the kitchen and personaly I love the salmon dish its a dish with great complexity and thought behind it, the Manni olive oil and grated liqurice root is breaking the fatiness from the fish and mayo, the grapefruit is there to release small citrus explosions in the mouth and to all this a spicy red wine (cant remember the name). Turbot is a classic luxury fish wich is cooked sous vide to 42 degrees build around the subtle flavour of chervil and its citrus notes (why some people finds it bland especially when eaten in the tasting menu after the umami rich sardine on toast dish). there will be a new fish dish coming on later this year under the project name "the sound of sea" including edible sand and an ipod. And to rocket chef, those photos are very good but also very old and alot of stuff has changed since.

/Mag

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I didn't have as much of a problem with the texture of the liquorice as others did, but like I said, a lot of people were taking the skin off. Perhaps I found it a bit sweet, from the vanilla, especially where many of the surrounding items on the menu are also sweet - the foie before, and the pigeon afterwards. Admittedly not the sardines sorbet.

Interesting that the order of the turbot didn't help. But I think it was the turbot itself which was disappointing. I didn't like the texture of the fish - it was almost mushy. I know it wasn't overcooked, but it shared some of the properties of an overcooked piece of fish - slightly chewy etc. Most importantly, the flavour seemed lacking - I have had some fantastic pieces of turbot from a large fish, roasted and highly gelatinous. Notably at Gordon Ramsay with a citrus sauce, which was a standout from a medoicre meal.

Perhaps I needed a bit of textural contrast at this stage of the meal - a really crisp skin, or some crunchy accompaniments. Neither the turbot nor the salmon provided that.

I had heard about the seaside dish, and spoke to Heston about it. I understood it was to take the place of the sardines on toast sorbet?

Don't get me wrong though - the fish course was the only let down for me. The rest of the meal confirmed my opinion that the FD is way ahead of its British peers in terms of flavour, innovation and execution.

Magnus, is there anything you don't like on the menu? I really wanted the scallops with white chocolate, but they wouldn't let me swap that in...

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I didn't have as much of a problem with the texture of the liquorice as others did, but like I said, a lot of people were taking the skin off. Perhaps I found it a bit sweet, from the vanilla, especially where many of the surrounding items on the menu are also sweet - the foie before, and the pigeon afterwards. Admittedly not the sardines sorbet.

Interesting that the order of the turbot didn't help. But I think it was the turbot itself which was disappointing. I didn't like the texture of the fish - it was almost mushy. I know it wasn't overcooked, but it shared some of the properties of an overcooked piece of fish - slightly chewy etc. Most importantly, the flavour seemed lacking - I have had some fantastic pieces of turbot from a large fish, roasted and highly gelatinous. Notably at Gordon Ramsay with a citrus sauce, which was a standout from a medoicre meal.

Perhaps I needed a bit of textural contrast at this stage of the meal - a really crisp skin, or some crunchy accompaniments. Neither the turbot nor the salmon provided that.

I had heard about the seaside dish, and spoke to Heston about it. I understood it was to take the place of the sardines on toast sorbet?

Don't get me wrong though - the fish course was the only let down for me. The rest of the meal confirmed my opinion that the FD is way ahead of its British peers in terms of flavour, innovation and execution.

Magnus, is there anything you don't like on the menu? I really wanted the scallops with white chocolate, but they wouldn't let me swap that in...

glad you enjoyed your night Andy, and no i think the menu is very good with no real weakness and that is becouse every dish is well worked on and tested before it comes on the menu,from idea to menu is a very slow process at FD maybe 6months or so, it is neccesary when you combine flavours at this level, if you rush dishes as du jour menus for example they are never gonna be as perfect.

and for the scallop dish it is a classic FD pairing between caviar and white chocolate that has come back (used to be an amuse) wich unfortunatly has a little to high foodcost for the tasting menu .

/Mag

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Interesting that the order of the turbot didn't help. But I think it was the turbot itself which was disappointing. I didn't like the texture of the fish - it was almost mushy. I know it wasn't overcooked, but it shared some of the properties of an overcooked piece of fish - slightly chewy etc.

Sounds like all the characteristics of classic sous-vide to me...

More Cookbooks than Sense - my new Cookbook blog!
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Out of the whole menu the salmon dish was the one I was fearing the most, as liquorice is something I am not keen on. I think it stems from the days of eating midget gems and being dissapointed that the black ones had a horrid liquorice flavour. Anyway, I actually found the flavour to be very subtle, considering the colour screams hardcore liquorice and as a whole thought the dish worked very well.

I had a similar liquorice and salmon dish at Sat Bains a few months later which presumably was a homage to this dish. I think it was salmon with fennel, vanilla, passionfruit and liquorice which was equally as good if not a little better, passionfruit working better than the grapefruit.

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Out of the whole menu the salmon dish was the one I was fearing the most, as liquorice is something I am not keen on. I think it stems from the days of eating midget gems and being dissapointed that the black ones had a  horrid liquorice flavour. Anyway, I actually found the flavour to be very subtle, considering the colour screams hardcore liquorice and as a whole thought the dish  worked very well.

I had a similar liquorice and salmon dish at Sat Bains a few months later which presumably was a homage to this dish. I think it was salmon with fennel, vanilla, passionfruit and liquorice which was equally as good if not a little better, passionfruit working better than the grapefruit.

What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!

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Out of the whole menu the salmon dish was the one I was fearing the most, as liquorice is something I am not keen on. I think it stems from the days of eating midget gems and being dissapointed that the black ones had a  horrid liquorice flavour. Anyway, I actually found the flavour to be very subtle, considering the colour screams hardcore liquorice and as a whole thought the dish  worked very well.

I had a similar liquorice and salmon dish at Sat Bains a few months later which presumably was a homage to this dish. I think it was salmon with fennel, vanilla, passionfruit and liquorice which was equally as good if not a little better, passionfruit working better than the grapefruit.

What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!

Having worked for Sat on and off for nearly 4 years I can tell you that dish was in no way inspired by Heston. In one form or another it has been on the menu since 2001 when the, then Hotel des Clos re-opened after flooding.

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"What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!"

I am hoping you are taking the piss re your comment above.

If not, are you saying that you have never used ideas from elsewhere on your menu?? Or are we to presume that the Valrhona Chocolate fondant on your tasting menu, is your own inimitable creation.

Edited by Bapi (log)
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Incidentally, the standout dish of an excellent dinner I had a Sat Bains last weekend was salmon (cooked sous vide at 42 degrees) with vanilla, chestnut, smoked roe and avocado. I will post a full review of this meal in the near furture (when work stops cutting into my internet time).

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"What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!"

I am hoping you are taking the piss re your comment above.

If not, are you saying that you have never used ideas from elsewhere on your menu?? Or are we to presume that the Valrhona Chocolate fondant on your tasting menu, is your own inimitable creation.

I didnt invent it i just perfected it,only joking

i m not claiming to have re invented the wheel, i know people have done chocolate fondant with caramel before

but saying that the fondant recipe is mine, the ice cream recipe is mine, the foam is mine and the salted caramel is mine,

but over the years i have seen a number of chefs attempt combinations very similer to what heston does, which are obviously noticed as there so different, the chef in question being one of those people.

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"What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!"

I am hoping you are taking the piss re your comment above.

If not, are you saying that you have never used ideas from elsewhere on your menu?? Or are we to presume that the Valrhona Chocolate fondant on your tasting menu, is your own inimitable creation.

There is also a big difference between using ideas you have done before and copying, of course people are going to take inspiration from chefs they have worked for ,books, meals they have eaten etc etc

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"What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!"

I am hoping you are taking the piss re your comment above.

If not, are you saying that you have never used ideas from elsewhere on your menu?? Or are we to presume that the Valrhona Chocolate fondant on your tasting menu, is your own inimitable creation.

I didnt invent it i just perfected it,only joking

i m not claiming to have re invented the wheel, i know people have done chocolate fondant with caramel before

but saying that the fondant recipe is mine, the ice cream recipe is mine, the foam is mine and the salted caramel is mine,

but over the years i have seen a number of chefs attempt combinations very similer to what heston does, which are obviously noticed as there so different, the chef in question being one of those people.

come off it, i have 2 recipes for chocolate fondant with salted butter caramel from books, I doubt either of the chef's were original when they produced them. Copying combinations from Heston? What next, chef's serving deconstructed bacon and egg ice cream?

Heston has created some innovative dishes, but criticising a chef for perhaps using his ideas as a basis for their recipes, or even for coming up with a mixture of ingredients similar to those at the fat duck is surely daft.

No offence chap but i think its a bit rude to accuse other chef's of such things when you are trying to get your restaurant going.

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"What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!"

I am hoping you are taking the piss re your comment above.

If not, are you saying that you have never used ideas from elsewhere on your menu?? Or are we to presume that the Valrhona Chocolate fondant on your tasting menu, is your own inimitable creation.

I didnt invent it i just perfected it,only joking

i m not claiming to have re invented the wheel, i know people have done chocolate fondant with caramel before

but saying that the fondant recipe is mine, the ice cream recipe is mine, the foam is mine and the salted caramel is mine,

but over the years i have seen a number of chefs attempt combinations very similer to what heston does, which are obviously noticed as there so different, the chef in question being one of those people.

come off it, i have 2 recipes for chocolate fondant with salted butter caramel from books, I doubt either of the chef's were original when they produced them. Copying combinations from Heston? What next, chef's serving deconstructed bacon and egg ice cream?

Heston has created some innovative dishes, but criticising a chef for perhaps using his ideas as a basis for their recipes, or even for coming up with a mixture of ingredients similar to those at the fat duck is surely daft.

No offence chap but i think its a bit rude to accuse other chef's of such things when you are trying to get your restaurant going.

Hey i didnt criticise, i think hes a very good chef, it was just an observation, maybe i m wrong

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"What a surprise sat bains copying heston!!!"

I am hoping you are taking the piss re your comment above.

If not, are you saying that you have never used ideas from elsewhere on your menu?? Or are we to presume that the Valrhona Chocolate fondant on your tasting menu, is your own inimitable creation.

I didnt invent it i just perfected it,only joking

i m not claiming to have re invented the wheel, i know people have done chocolate fondant with caramel before

but saying that the fondant recipe is mine, the ice cream recipe is mine, the foam is mine and the salted caramel is mine,

but over the years i have seen a number of chefs attempt combinations very similer to what heston does, which are obviously noticed as there so different, the chef in question being one of those people.

come off it, i have 2 recipes for chocolate fondant with salted butter caramel from books, I doubt either of the chef's were original when they produced them. Copying combinations from Heston? What next, chef's serving deconstructed bacon and egg ice cream?

Heston has created some innovative dishes, but criticising a chef for perhaps using his ideas as a basis for their recipes, or even for coming up with a mixture of ingredients similar to those at the fat duck is surely daft.

No offence chap but i think its a bit rude to accuse other chef's of such things when you are trying to get your restaurant going.

Hey i didnt criticise, i think hes a very good chef, it was just an observation, maybe i m wrong

Sorry i probably went a bit OTT with my reply, i had been drinking all afternoon and shouldn't have gone near the internet!

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I just saw the short ‘humorous’ review of the new Sound of the Sea dish in Caterer magazine this week (p14). Can anyone give us the skinny on what’s in it and how it’s presented?

Sounds like a novel approach.

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Shirley, thats really interesting, it may be the case that Sat's dish preceeded Hestons. I suppose it is quite lazy to always assume that the three star chef influenced the one star chef, in reality it's usually the other way round! Irregardless, Sat's dish tasted better to me.

The question is who came up with the idea of grating liquorice at the table firsT?? :smile:

ps. Tom look forward to your review, I would write one, only it has been a while since I visited and the fantastic beer menu rendered me ................................

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Just had a look at Companies House re: ownership of The Riverside Brasserie, yes HB is not involved, it belongs to Garrey Dawson, Lee Dixon et al (Alexander's of Limpsfield thread). Also noticed that HB and wife resigned from all directorships of FD and Hinds Head and all subsidiary companies as of 11/'06.

Edited by Zoticus (log)
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