The Fat Duck 2005

[Andy Lynes]

Marcus Wareing's menus can also be strangely unseasonal.

Shaun Hill has a very intersting take on this which may already be posted on this forum elsewhere. He says that seasonality in the modern world is more about what you feel like eating at any given time of the year than what is available locally. Which is why you would often find asparagus on his menus in December. He says that as long as there was decent produce available from somewhere in the world and you had the appetite for it, then you should use it (I'm paraphrasing of course).

[Andy Lynes]

But couldn't exactly the same be said of the dishes at El Bulli? A restaurant which, in contrast, shows a very determined and focussed year-on-year evolution of the menu. Some reinvention/refinement, yes, but a massive number of exciting new dishes too.

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But they close for months and months every year in order to produce a new menu. That's a lot of pressure and there's a high risk that the new stuff will be a bit shit. But its just two different approaches. Why is one better than the other? You don't go to Le Gavroche expecting new dishes all the time. You don't say to yourself "Fuck me, souffle suissesse again?." So why expect Heston to be pulling rabbits out of hats every five minutes?

[Andy Lynes]

It's hard to find fresh gourmand carrots in this country.

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Is there a strong carrot theme to the current Midsummer House menu? Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

[Bux]

I don't understand why it's inherently good to be creative and inherently bad to search for perfection. Moreover, I don't see why it's bad for a creative artist to change from a focus on creating new works, to a focus on refining old works as he matures. There's far too much subjectivity trying to pass as objectivity in some criticism and has been noted earlier in the thread, knowing what the dish is called on the menu is not the same as knowing how it tastes. That Hestom Bllumenthal doesn't strive to be Ferran Adrià of Daniel Boulud would seem to be a good thing, whether he's half the cook they are, or twice the cook they are.

The reasons how and why a chef aquires a public reputation may, or may not, be related to why he is loved or despised by any group of connoisseurs who understand his work.

I'm a great fan of local produce, sustainable farming and seasonal menus, but I have to grant that if I will only enjoy strawberries and tomatoes at the height of the local season here in the northeaster US, at what time of year may I enjoy bananas and coffee? I suppose that if I had a house in the Caribbean and spent a good deal of time there, I'd only eat locally grown bananas. They do taste better by the way.

[alexhills]

Andy - I think you (or Shaun Hill) are certainly right that 'globalization' or whatever you want to call it has changed the sense of what's seasonal, but there are still some things which seem innately tied to the time of year to me. The preserved and/or summer truffles I've had are simply vastly inferior to the ones from the right time and place as it were, likewise I wouldn't want to eat skate in the summer, it just goes off too fast. With degusto on dried vs fresh morels too. Game seems quintessentially Autumn/Winter food to me. Also I do prefer to eat differently depending on the season, and its nice for menus to reflect that.

A related issue is of course the 'terroir' one, which has been hashed out abouve and I'll largely leave. I think its unreasonable to expect English haute restaurants to produce food reflective of hyper-regional specialities as much as French ones do, of course- we don't have the tradition to make that possible. That said, California has developed local specializations incredibly quickly, and very seasonal ones at that.

Edited May 6, 2005 by alexhills (log)

[adt]

its just two different approaches. Why is one better than the other? You don't go to Le Gavroche expecting new dishes all the time.

It's true, and it's not the FD's fault that obsessive media attention feeds an expectation of new daily miracles.

Never-the-less, Heston is not shy when it comes to talking about research and new techniques in his columns and interviews, and his restaurant is operating much more in the arena of EB than Le Gavroche is - indeed, he openly exploits surprise in his diners (beetroot jelly etc. etc.) in a decidedly un-classical way that is highly dependent on new inventions.

Even before that highly-definitive recent poll that set them above EB, I think the expectation that they add new dishes at a somewhat faster rate is very understandable.

Speaking personally I'd rather they didn't, so that occasional visitors such as myself can experience as broad a range of dishes as anyone else.

[Andy Lynes]

I take you point, but even though TFD is close in style to el Bulli than Le Gavroche, they are all restaurants and all very different in style. So there's no particular reason for The Fat Duck to try and emulate el Bulli anymore than it would want to mimic Le Gav.

In any style of cuisine, you are going to find chefs that bore easily and like to change stuff around all the time, and those that keep dishes on for ever. Shaun Hill is again a good case in point. He had scallops with lentils and coriander, and many other dishes, on both the menu at Gidleigh and then at Merchant House, but as far as I'm aware he was never criticised for it.

[Suzi Edwards]

Heston speaks out about those pesky food inspectors

[Dirk Wheelan]

it did raise some thoughts about the problems inherent in developing techniques so new to professional kitchens that it takes time for health inspectors to keep up.

A++ for cheek.

[Dirk Wheelan]

You don't go to Le Gavroche expecting new dishes all the time. You don't say to yourself "Fuck me, souffle suissesse again?." So why expect Heston to be pulling rabbits out of hats every five minutes?

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I think it's expected because all the hype surrounding him constantly stresses progress, advance, and innovation. People, including me, are surprised that this is not represented as an ongoing thing in his food. It's like five years ago he took all the MG ideas and came up with a tasting menu, and that's it, even the ALC is the same.

I don't think anyone likes hype when it's overdone. I think this is the case with Heston, the hype has outstripped his possibilities. That's why people get upset, all this messianic stuff and then straight on to the TV circuit like everyone else.

[Jonathan Day]

it did raise some thoughts about the problems inherent in developing techniques so new to professional kitchens that it takes time for health inspectors to keep up.

A++ for cheek.

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I'd only give him a B- for cheekiness. It's true that TFD has experimented with (and Heston Blumenthal written about, in books and articles) cooking foods at extremely low temperatures for long periods of time. The health inspectors must have had concerns about meats cooked at temperatures lower than those they considered safe.

For the avoidance of doubt, and of a repeat of the accusations elsewhere on this topic: let me stipulate that Blumenthal isn't the first to have experimented with low-temperature-long-time cookery, and that he has had sweetbreads cooked in a hay box for as long as I can remember. Nonetheless, I'm not surprised that the inspectors might have had questions about his techniques.

[Dirk Wheelan]

Fair play to Heston!

Still, I'd never have have thought of blaming the inspectors for being 'behind the times'.

Edited May 8, 2005 by Dirk Wheelan (log)

[oedipus]

Shaun Hill has a very intersting take on this which may already be posted on this forum elsewhere. He says that seasonality in the modern world is more about what you feel like eating at any given time of the year than what is available locally. Which is why you would often find asparagus on his menus in December. He says that as long as there was decent produce available from somewhere in the world and you had the appetite for it, then you should use it (I'm paraphrasing of course).

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That definition - "what you feel like eating at any given time of the year" is open season for Martini cuisine - any time, any place, any where - no problems with that, but seasonality has no part to play in it. Unless I am much mistaken (and it has happened) seasonality is inescapably linked to geographical specificity rather than the predelictions of diners. I'm an agnostic in the debate but I think those who talk the seasonality schtick should be casting around their immediate suppliers rather than scouring the globe.

Edited May 8, 2005 by oedipus (log)

[Dirk Wheelan]

Fat Duck fans MobyP and Suzi will be delighted to know that come 2007 ("It will take two years to design the book according to Blumenthal's exacting specifications") they will be able to recreate their favourite restaurant experience at home with the Fat Duck Cookbook.

A snip for Bloomsbury at £300,000. http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/...1493936,00.html

Can't wait!

[Dirk Wheelan]

Heston Blumenthal and the Guardian are parting company. Tiffanie Darke of the Sunday Times Style section, announced that the world's best chef will be her bitch from now on.

To what extent Heston's departure is connected with this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,2763,1474710,00.html and this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,...1509266,00.html is clearly a matter for speculation.

Jay?

[cachan]

Last week we had the tasting menu (97.50 pounds) for dinner in this permanently fully booked place of pilgrimage, all 20-odd courses.

As this is the best restaurant in the world, according to Restaurant Magazine 2005, we must have experienced the best meal in the world, full stop.

[Pweaver1984]

Anymore info cachan??

Cheers

Paul

[Gary Marshall]

Last week we had the tasting menu (97.50 pounds) for dinner in this permanently fully booked place of pilgrimage, all 20-odd courses.

As this is the best restaurant in the world, according to Restaurant Magazine 2005, we must have experienced the best meal in the world, full stop.

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let me guess, it wasn't the best meal in the world?

[Sackville]

Last week we had the tasting menu (97.50 pounds) for dinner in this permanently fully booked place of pilgrimage, all 20-odd courses.

As this is the best restaurant in the world, according to Restaurant Magazine 2005, we must have experienced the best meal in the world, full stop.

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let me guess, it wasn't the best meal in the world?

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You guys are depressing me.

We've wanted to go to the Fat Duck since it first opened and never got there. Rather late to jump on the train, husband just booked a meal for my birthday, which took some doing since we waited until it was named "best in the world" to go and now after reading all of this I'm just not so excited any more.

Maybe we should just save our money but after waiting so long....

[postcode]

You have to go for the experience. For me the food was a let down, but the rest was worth the expense.

[alexw]

Last week we had the tasting menu (97.50 pounds) for dinner in this permanently fully booked place of pilgrimage, all 20-odd courses.

As this is the best restaurant in the world, according to Restaurant Magazine 2005, we must have experienced the best meal in the world, full stop.

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let me guess, it wasn't the best meal in the world?

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You guys are depressing me.

We've wanted to go to the Fat Duck since it first opened and never got there. Rather late to jump on the train, husband just booked a meal for my birthday, which took some doing since we waited until it was named "best in the world" to go and now after reading all of this I'm just not so excited any more.

Maybe we should just save our money but after waiting so long....

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personally I have not had better elsewhere, however one thing letting them down is the lack of change, (not a problem if you've not been before), granted it is expensive and I can only express my own opinion, but for me I look forward to each and every visit to the Duck.

Alex.

[MobyP]

First off, a lack of change won't be an issue for a first timer. Secondly, it's only an issue with the tasting menu, and there are a large amount of other dishes on offer. Thirdly, if you want change, why not make up your own menu? I had a fantastic lunch there, and made several substitutions, including the pork belly with black truffle macaroni with lardo di collonato, sole veronique, and foie gras with crab bisque tuile and sea-weed - a gorgeous meal.

It might take a bit of polite negotiation, your bill might be more or less expensive, but why not?

Edited June 30, 2005 by MobyP (log)

[cachan]

It was our first time and this is partly why we went for the Tasting menu. I booked the previous week and was extremely lucky that someone had just cancelled. We reasoned that if you go to this place the first time then why not do it properly and go the whole hog ?

The menu was almost as it is on the fatduck website except for the omission of the orange and beetroot jelly where the trick can now be revealed without destroying the surprise as being that the 'orange' jelly is actually 'orange beetroot' and the beetroot jelly is actually 'blood orange'.

Of course we were not disappointed at all, we were impressed and entertained and it was worth the money. Every course had its own crockery and cutlery and drama and expectations, I would imagine that it might be similar to the El Bulli experience.

I was just simply reasoning that the Tasting menu, as the most expensive meal option, must logically be the best meal in the world if it is at the best restaurant in the world and I am happy to believe this. It would be presumptuous of me to judge whether this is true or not as I have not the sufficient experience or education.

So if others want to feel that they have had the best meal in the world during 2005 then go for the Tasting menu at this place.

We also recently had the Prestige menu at GR RHR at lunch-time for 90 pounds and were surprised at how many others were having this option at lunch-time when there were two cheaper options for 40 pounds and 70 pounds. It just shows that many people are prepared to pay for the best cuisine. The place was full with some second sittings whilst the restaurant a few doors away was almost empty.

[Sackville]

You have to go for the experience. For me the food was a let down, but the rest was worth the expense.

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What else is there if not the food?? I mean, isn't the whole point of a restaurant in the food? If the food doesn't impress then...

[Dirk Wheelan]

If you're the kind of person who believes in 'The 50 Best Restaurants' type things, then clearly hype is important to you, and part of the pleasure in eating at The Fat Duck will come from participating in the PR. Personally, I find the excessive hype gets in the way of the food because it makes me doubt that Heston's motives are entirely gastronomic.

Best restaurant in the world or not, though, there is still plenty to be positive about as regards the food (especially the ALC), and in this category of dining, there are only a handful of other restaurants working to comparable standards in the UK.

In the end, the extent to which you will enjoy the Fat Duck, will depend on how much you value novelty in food; how much pleasure you derive from the 'fashionable' aspect of dining, and your experience of eating at establishments of a similar level.

Whatever you feel about the above, you're not going to have a bad meal, the worst that could happen is that you might leave doubting that Heston is God after all.