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Report:eG Chocolate and Confectionery Conference


Kerry Beal
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I’ve got a few questions about the flowing caramels, which I made on Saturday. I filled the molds; all the pieces came out great. On Saturday and Sunday the caramel had a very vanilla-y taste and was quite fluid. By Monday, however, the vanilla flavor was a little more subdued and the caramel no longer flowed out of the chocolates when bitten.

I actually liked the flavor better on Monday, but I liked the texture better over the weekend. I had been intending to save at least one for a week or two to see if anything else changed over time; however, leaving chocolates at home with my wife is not a very safe thing to do! Alas, I have no more pieces to test.

So, my questions are: Is it normal for the caramel to thicken up over the course of a couple days? If so, does this process continue so that it would become a chewy caramel after a week or two? If so, is there any way to maintain the fluidity of the caramel? Obviously this is my first foray into the realm of caramel making, so any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

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I’ve got a few questions about the flowing caramels, which I made on Saturday.  I filled the molds; all the pieces came out great.  On Saturday and Sunday the caramel had a very vanilla-y taste and was quite fluid.  By Monday, however, the vanilla flavor was a little more subdued and the caramel no longer flowed out of the chocolates when bitten.

I actually liked the flavor better on Monday, but I liked the texture better over the weekend.  I had been intending to save at least one for a week or two to see if anything else changed over time; however, leaving chocolates at home with my wife is not a very safe thing to do!  Alas, I have no more pieces to test.

So, my questions are: Is it normal for the caramel to thicken up over the course of a couple days?  If so, does this process continue so that it would become a chewy caramel after a week or two?  If so, is there any way to maintain the fluidity of the caramel?  Obviously this is my first foray into the realm of caramel making, so any input would be appreciated.  Thanks.

They tend to thicken a bit as they cool, but I've never had them thicken up so much that they'd be chewy.

Does there seem to be any evidence of crystallization? You could add a bit more cream.

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You gave me a giggle when you told about your wife eating the chocolates! I had all sorts of honey and chocolate experiments going on a while back, and wanted to see how the various chocolate and honey bonbons hold up over time (2 of each). When I came to check they were all gone... Hubby found them delicious!

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In the name of research, I just ate two of my milk-chocolate shelled flowing caramels, the ones from my first batch at home on 23 April.

The insides are gooey still, not really bite-off-half-and-have-the-filling-flow-out oozy, but most definitely not even close to stick-your-teeth-together chewy. No evidence of caramelization.

I prefer the taste with dark chocolate.

MelissaH

MelissaH

Oswego, NY

Chemist, writer, hired gun

Say this five times fast: "A big blue bucket of blue blueberries."

foodblog1 | kitchen reno | foodblog2

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I prefer the taste with dark chocolate.

MelissaH

I'm with you there - I take the caramel really dark so it's quite bitter - with the dark chocolate - YUM!

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Thanks! None of them lasted for more than 4 days so I couldn't tell what would happen. There was no crystalization, just a thickening...still good, still gooey...just not oozy any more. As long as they don't continue to thicken though, I'm fine with it.

And, I really liked them with dark chocolate too. I used a 61% E. Guittards, but I think I might go with something a little darker next time.

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The insides are gooey still, not really bite-off-half-and-have-the-filling-flow-out oozy, but most definitely not even close to stick-your-teeth-together chewy. No evidence of caramelization.

I made the Grewling caramel slab (recipe using sweetened condensed milk) a few days ago and found my caramels "stick to your teeth" chewy. I cut the slab on a rainy night (I THink that was part of my problem, although the house is air conditioned) and dipped the caramels that evening.

Would I want to cook the caramel a few degrees further to avoid the "stick to teeth" texture?

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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Here is the port and cigar center aka "the gentleman retire to the library".

                          Port and Cigars

  Amount  Measure      Ingredient -- Preparation Method

--------  ------------  --------------------------------

                        Pate De Fruit

250      grams        pear puree

  75      grams        sugar

  10      grams        apple pectin

  375    grams        sugar

  75      grams        glucose

  250    grams        banyuls or port

  10      grams        tartaric acid solution (equal amts water/tartaric)

  10      grams        banyuls or port

   

                        Tobacco Ganache

250      grams        PNG single origin dark

  55      grams        butter

  55      grams        invert sugar

  2        grams        tobacco (from a good cigar)

285      grams        whipping cream

Mix the 75 grams sugar with pectin.  Cook together pear puree for 2 minutes.  Add the remaining sugar and glucose and cook to 112ºC.  Add 250 grams wine and take to 107º C.  Add tartaric solution and 10 grams wine. Pour into a 12 X 12 inch frame.

Infuse tobacco in hot cream, strain, don't press.  Add invert sugar and cool to 30º C, add to 40º C chocolate, add butter.  Pour over fruit jelly in frame and level.

Kerry - How long do you want to infuse the tobacco in the cream?

This will be my first time making pate de fruits - so I have a couple of questions about the ingredients.

Can I use cream of tartar as my tartaric acid?

Can I make invert sugar? I seem to remember seeing a recipe about a week ago, and now it's lost. Or - is this an ingredient I need to order?

I bought the Banyuls this afternoon. Looking forward to experimenting with this!

Thanks

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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Here is the port and cigar center aka "the gentleman retire to the library".

                           Port and Cigars

  Amount  Measure       Ingredient -- Preparation Method

--------  ------------  --------------------------------

                        Pate De Fruit

250      grams         pear puree

  75      grams         sugar

  10      grams         apple pectin

  375     grams         sugar

   75      grams         glucose

  250     grams         banyuls or port

   10      grams         tartaric acid solution (equal amts water/tartaric)

   10      grams         banyuls or port

    

                        Tobacco Ganache

250      grams         PNG single origin dark

  55       grams         butter

  55       grams         invert sugar

   2        grams         tobacco (from a good cigar)

285      grams         whipping cream

Mix the 75 grams sugar with pectin.  Cook together pear puree for 2 minutes.  Add the remaining sugar and glucose and cook to 112ºC.  Add 250 grams wine and take to 107º C.  Add tartaric solution and 10 grams wine. Pour into a 12 X 12 inch frame.

Infuse tobacco in hot cream, strain, don't press.  Add invert sugar and cool to 30º C, add to 40º C chocolate, add butter.  Pour over fruit jelly in frame and level.

Kerry - How long do you want to infuse the tobacco in the cream?

This will be my first time making pate de fruits - so I have a couple of questions about the ingredients.

Can I use cream of tartar as my tartaric acid?

Can I make invert sugar? I seem to remember seeing a recipe about a week ago, and now it's lost. Or - is this an ingredient I need to order?

I bought the Banyuls this afternoon. Looking forward to experimenting with this!

Thanks

5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference. PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

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The insides are gooey still, not really bite-off-half-and-have-the-filling-flow-out oozy, but most definitely not even close to stick-your-teeth-together chewy. No evidence of caramelization.

I made the Grewling caramel slab (recipe using sweetened condensed milk) a few days ago and found my caramels "stick to your teeth" chewy. I cut the slab on a rainy night (I THink that was part of my problem, although the house is air conditioned) and dipped the caramels that evening.

Would I want to cook the caramel a few degrees further to avoid the "stick to teeth" texture?

I think that the 'stickjaw' problem is helped more by fat in the recipe.

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The insides are gooey still, not really bite-off-half-and-have-the-filling-flow-out oozy, but most definitely not even close to stick-your-teeth-together chewy. No evidence of caramelization.

I made the Grewling caramel slab (recipe using sweetened condensed milk) a few days ago and found my caramels "stick to your teeth" chewy. I cut the slab on a rainy night (I THink that was part of my problem, although the house is air conditioned) and dipped the caramels that evening.

Would I want to cook the caramel a few degrees further to avoid the "stick to teeth" texture?

I think that the 'stickjaw' problem is helped more by fat in the recipe.

Going back to using cream and sugar, instead of sweetened condensed milk?

Hmmm...didn't think of that. I'll change recipes and see what happens.

Thanks - M

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference.  PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

I made the invert sugar recipe tonight - it turned brown and bubbled when I added the baking soda solution. Is it supposed to turn color?

For the citric acid I'm using "Fruit Fresh" - a fruit preservative. Is this OK? I've never heard of "sour salt".

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference.  PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

I made the invert sugar recipe tonight - it turned brown and bubbled when I added the baking soda solution. Is it supposed to turn color?

For the citric acid I'm using "Fruit Fresh" - a fruit preservative. Is this OK? I've never heard of "sour salt".

I may be mistaken but I think Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid. If you look in the kosher section of the grocery store you should find sour salt.

The invert sugar usually ends up a golden colour.

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I just tried out the invert sugar recipe, too. I scaled it back to a half batch, and used citric acid. When I added the baking soda, I got a very big foamy reaction, and the final product looks cloudy, not clear like it was at the conference. It's also about the consistency of honey (or glucose syrup, maybe). Are these things normal, or do I have to start over?

Also, is it shelf-stable, or does it need to be refrigerated?

Thanks!

Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference.  PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

I made the invert sugar recipe tonight - it turned brown and bubbled when I added the baking soda solution. Is it supposed to turn color?

For the citric acid I'm using "Fruit Fresh" - a fruit preservative. Is this OK? I've never heard of "sour salt".

I may be mistaken but I think Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid. If you look in the kosher section of the grocery store you should find sour salt.

The invert sugar usually ends up a golden colour.

I made the PDF with the Banyuls, substituting citric acid and water for tartaric acid solution. The taste is great!

"...Mix the 75 grams sugar with pectin. Cook together pear puree for 2 minutes. Add the remaining sugar and glucose and cook to 112ºC. Add 250 grams wine and take to 107º C. Add tartaric solution and 10 grams wine. Pour into a 12 X 12 inch frame."

Once I added the banyuls to the mixture I had a hard time getting the mixture to combine - it appeared to gel into some lumps. I whisked it unitl it reached 107C, then added the citric acid solution and wine. At this point, it became much more lumpy and I couldn't whisk the lumps out. I used a stick blender and got rid of some lumps, then strained the pdf into my frame.

What caused the lumps to form? I was stirring the mixture continuously.

Thanks for the help.

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference.  PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

I made the invert sugar recipe tonight - it turned brown and bubbled when I added the baking soda solution. Is it supposed to turn color?

For the citric acid I'm using "Fruit Fresh" - a fruit preservative. Is this OK? I've never heard of "sour salt".

I may be mistaken but I think Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid. If you look in the kosher section of the grocery store you should find sour salt.

The invert sugar usually ends up a golden colour.

I made the PDF with the Banyuls, substituting citric acid and water for tartaric acid solution. The taste is great!

"...Mix the 75 grams sugar with pectin. Cook together pear puree for 2 minutes. Add the remaining sugar and glucose and cook to 112ºC. Add 250 grams wine and take to 107º C. Add tartaric solution and 10 grams wine. Pour into a 12 X 12 inch frame."

Once I added the banyuls to the mixture I had a hard time getting the mixture to combine - it appeared to gel into some lumps. I whisked it unitl it reached 107C, then added the citric acid solution and wine. At this point, it became much more lumpy and I couldn't whisk the lumps out. I used a stick blender and got rid of some lumps, then strained the pdf into my frame.

What caused the lumps to form? I was stirring the mixture continuously.

Thanks for the help.

It sounds to me like your PdF was setting before you got it out of the pot. As soon as you add the acid things can move pretty quickly. I used to have a lot of problems with this. Now I've switched to slow-set pectin which sets at a much lower temperature and haven't had any problems with lumpy PdF since I made the change.

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5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference.  PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

I made the invert sugar recipe tonight - it turned brown and bubbled when I added the baking soda solution. Is it supposed to turn color?

For the citric acid I'm using "Fruit Fresh" - a fruit preservative. Is this OK? I've never heard of "sour salt".

I may be mistaken but I think Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid. If you look in the kosher section of the grocery store you should find sour salt.

The invert sugar usually ends up a golden colour.

I made the PDF with the Banyuls, substituting citric acid and water for tartaric acid solution. The taste is great!

"...Mix the 75 grams sugar with pectin. Cook together pear puree for 2 minutes. Add the remaining sugar and glucose and cook to 112ºC. Add 250 grams wine and take to 107º C. Add tartaric solution and 10 grams wine. Pour into a 12 X 12 inch frame."

Once I added the banyuls to the mixture I had a hard time getting the mixture to combine - it appeared to gel into some lumps. I whisked it unitl it reached 107C, then added the citric acid solution and wine. At this point, it became much more lumpy and I couldn't whisk the lumps out. I used a stick blender and got rid of some lumps, then strained the pdf into my frame.

What caused the lumps to form? I was stirring the mixture continuously.

Thanks for the help.

Did you pre-warm the wine? If your mixture falls below a certain point (like by adding a bunch of room-temperature wine), the pectin will begin to set and then you've had it.

As cmflick says, the slow-setting pectin may help. There are also some thermo-reversible ones out there.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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My invert sugar recipe just calls for sugar, water and citric acid or lemon juice.  I've made it and used it with good results.

What is the purpose of the baking soda and where does this recipe come from, please?

Thanks

It comes from one of the Wybauw books.

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Did you pre-warm the wine?  If your mixture falls below a certain point (like by adding a bunch of room-temperature wine), the pectin will begin to set and then you've had it.

As cmflick says, the slow-setting pectin may help.  There are also some thermo-reversible ones out there.

That's it! I didn't know to warm the wine, but it makes complete sense.

Thanks, John!

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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I just tried out the invert sugar recipe, too. I scaled it back to a half batch, and used citric acid. When I added the baking soda, I got a very big foamy reaction, and the final product looks cloudy, not clear like it was at the conference. It's also about the consistency of honey (or glucose syrup, maybe). Are these things normal, or do I have to start over?

Also, is it shelf-stable, or does it need to be refrigerated?

Thanks!

Mine's clear and about the texture of honey or corn syrup. I keep it at room temperature. I think I used tartaric for my last batch. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be fine even if cloudy - I mean really - all it is is sugar.

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I just tried out the invert sugar recipe, too. I scaled it back to a half batch, and used citric acid. When I added the baking soda, I got a very big foamy reaction, and the final product looks cloudy, not clear like it was at the conference. It's also about the consistency of honey (or glucose syrup, maybe). Are these things normal, or do I have to start over?

Also, is it shelf-stable, or does it need to be refrigerated?

Thanks!

Mine's clear and about the texture of honey or corn syrup. I keep it at room temperature. I think I used tartaric for my last batch. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be fine even if cloudy - I mean really - all it is is sugar.

Great, thank you! Looking at it now that it's had a chance to settle, it looks like the cloudiness was actually from bubbles. It seems to be clearing, so I'm sure it'll be perfectly limpid by tomorrow. :biggrin:

Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference.  PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

I made the invert sugar recipe tonight - it turned brown and bubbled when I added the baking soda solution. Is it supposed to turn color?

For the citric acid I'm using "Fruit Fresh" - a fruit preservative. Is this OK? I've never heard of "sour salt".

I may be mistaken but I think Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid. If you look in the kosher section of the grocery store you should find sour salt.

The invert sugar usually ends up a golden colour.

I made the PDF with the Banyuls, substituting citric acid and water for tartaric acid solution. The taste is great!

"...Mix the 75 grams sugar with pectin. Cook together pear puree for 2 minutes. Add the remaining sugar and glucose and cook to 112ºC. Add 250 grams wine and take to 107º C. Add tartaric solution and 10 grams wine. Pour into a 12 X 12 inch frame."

Once I added the banyuls to the mixture I had a hard time getting the mixture to combine - it appeared to gel into some lumps. I whisked it unitl it reached 107C, then added the citric acid solution and wine. At this point, it became much more lumpy and I couldn't whisk the lumps out. I used a stick blender and got rid of some lumps, then strained the pdf into my frame.

What caused the lumps to form? I was stirring the mixture continuously.

Thanks for the help.

Did you pre-warm the wine? If your mixture falls below a certain point (like by adding a bunch of room-temperature wine), the pectin will begin to set and then you've had it.

As cmflick says, the slow-setting pectin may help. There are also some thermo-reversible ones out there.

As John and cmflick have said the PDF tends to set up pretty quickly once you add the tartaric acid. I have my frames ready to go before I start the PDF and as soon as I add the acid - it goes immediately into the frame. I tend not to add the pot scrapings either as they form lumps on the top of the of the jelly.

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5 minutes or so of infusion of the tobacco should be fine.

Cream of tartar can't be substituted - you could use citric acid (sour salt in the supermarket) instead.

I included two recipes for invert sugar with the recipes for the conference.  PM me your regular e-mail address if you need them again.

I made the invert sugar recipe tonight - it turned brown and bubbled when I added the baking soda solution. Is it supposed to turn color?

For the citric acid I'm using "Fruit Fresh" - a fruit preservative. Is this OK? I've never heard of "sour salt".

I may be mistaken but I think Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid. If you look in the kosher section of the grocery store you should find sour salt.

The invert sugar usually ends up a golden colour.

I made the PDF with the Banyuls, substituting citric acid and water for tartaric acid solution. The taste is great!

"...Mix the 75 grams sugar with pectin. Cook together pear puree for 2 minutes. Add the remaining sugar and glucose and cook to 112ºC. Add 250 grams wine and take to 107º C. Add tartaric solution and 10 grams wine. Pour into a 12 X 12 inch frame."

Once I added the banyuls to the mixture I had a hard time getting the mixture to combine - it appeared to gel into some lumps. I whisked it unitl it reached 107C, then added the citric acid solution and wine. At this point, it became much more lumpy and I couldn't whisk the lumps out. I used a stick blender and got rid of some lumps, then strained the pdf into my frame.

What caused the lumps to form? I was stirring the mixture continuously.

Thanks for the help.

Did you pre-warm the wine? If your mixture falls below a certain point (like by adding a bunch of room-temperature wine), the pectin will begin to set and then you've had it.

As cmflick says, the slow-setting pectin may help. There are also some thermo-reversible ones out there.

As John and cmflick have said the PDF tends to set up pretty quickly once you add the tartaric acid. I have my frames ready to go before I start the PDF and as soon as I add the acid - it goes immediately into the frame. I tend not to add the pot scrapings either as they form lumps on the top of the of the jelly.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I'm really pleased with the pdf. Today I'll make the ganache for the top layer.

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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  • 4 weeks later...
Matt,

I'm going to be getting some rulers cut at the metal supermarket for Kyle - let me know if you want me to get you some too.  I'm also going to get him a sink cutout for a marble slab - let me know if you want one.

Sure, that'd be great! What sizes do you recommend? Greweling seems to use both 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch widths, so would it be best to get a set of each?

Strangely, we already have a marble slab, so we're covered in that respect. Thanks!

I've been talking to his mom about getting a set of 1/2 inch, and a set of 1/2 by 1/4 inch. With those I pour the first layer with the rulers set at 1/4 inch, then turn them on their 1/2 inch side for the next layer.

And there is enough weight in the 1/4 by 1/2 to prevent movement.

I like to cut 2 to 12 inches and 2 to 8 inches, but let me know if you'd prefer all 12 inches.

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