Hidemi Sugino's Cakes

[NickLam]

Hi all,

Thought this might be of interest to those who have heard so much about Hidemi Sugino's cakes but have not had the chance to visit him and taste his creations yet.

Hidemi Sugino's Cakes

Hope it quenches the curiosities of some here.

Cheers!

[prasantrin]

Mmmmmm, I need to go there!

Do they have a cafe, or is it only a take-out shop? It doesn't look how I imagined it to look--is it really in Ginza? It looks so non-descript.

[Lucil]

it is not in the same league as Henri Charpentier..as someone has said

Nick, u havent got back to me on how ates souhaits cakes were like.. i went to the wrong station..

[prasantrin]

it is not in the same league as Henri Charpentier..as someone has said 

Nick, u havent got back to me on how ates souhaits cakes were like.. i went to the wrong station..

←

FWIW, I have never said they were in the same league. I said they were both French-style patissiers, and you seemed to think Hidemi Sugino was not, simply because his cakes were mousse-based.

i did went inside the ginza branch, and as usual an erray of french cakes and patisseries were there, maybe the most varieties as compared to sadaharu aoki and pierre herme.... besides the macarons there were really expensive i thought(nearing 300 yen for each pop, maybe around the same price as pierre herme, i couldnt remember). sada's cakes also have alot of japanese twist in them, but i will classify those under french cakes as well.. hidemi's cakes are mostly mousse based instead of the usual flour base..

Regardless, your statement is a rather ignorant unless you've tasted both, and you've stated you haven't.

i passed by both but didnt get any stuff from either laduree or henri charpentier.. but i dun mind passing, they are just french sweets.. hidemi sugino is really a complete different creature..

That being said, I don't really see how Hidemi Sugino's cakes are any less French than those at, for example, HC. In fact, they seem even more French based on the descriptions. Perhaps you could elaborate on that, since you're such an expert?

Edited March 9, 2009 by prasantrin (log)

[Lucil]

if u have watched NHK professional, the opening statement says その男菓子は～～franceで、ほかの、どこにもない菓子とよばれる。 which means that his cakes cannot be found anywhere else in the world.　And this was exactly my feeling when i ate the cake.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Lucil (log)

[NickLam]

Prasantrin,

He has a retail area and a smaller sit in area behind. I tried taking away some cakes for friends, but the staff did not allow me to purchase his more delicate mousse cakes and insisted those were for eat in ONLY. Bummer.

Lucil,

This is a Hidemi Sugino thread, Hideki Kawamura's cakes will come soon. And I have tasted Hidemi's, Laduree's and Henri Charpentiers. They are all French based so I have no idea what your argument is about.

I will keep out of this argument, but please do not turn this tread into a flaming one.

[prasantrin]

if u have watched NHK professional, the opening statement says その男菓子は～～franceで、ほかの、どこにもない菓子とよばれる。 which means that his cakes cannot be found anywhere else in the world.　And this was exactly my feeling when i ate the cake.

←

His cakes can't be found anywhere else in the world because there's only one shop in the world.

I'm quite sure his cakes are delicious, and I'd love to try some of the flavour combinations that Nick featured on his blog (The Bresilienne, in particular, attracts my attention. While hardly an original combination, I'd like to taste how he balances the coffee and caramel flavours), but I would not dare to compare his cakes with others and say they are better or worse since I have not tried them. Best not to speak of what I have not experienced.

He has a retail area and a smaller sit in area behind. I tried taking away some cakes for friends, but the staff did not allow me to purchase his more delicate mousse cakes and insisted those were for eat in ONLY. Bummer.

I carry around disposable ZipLock containers and bags just for such occasions! Then when no one is looking, I slip little treats from my plate into them.

Did you find the sit-in area to be quite busy, even when they first opened? I'm wondering how long I'd have to wait for a table. I could certainly go early enough to stand in line, but if I should get lost (which often happens), I may arrive later than planned. Although I don't have a trip to Tokyo planned in the very near future, I like to plan my eating far ahead of time.

[NickLam]

Haha Prasantrin,

Never thought about the container thing! Its quite a small seating area though so it might be noticeable!

However, on mondays, tues, wed, etc.....getting there at opening should be ok, I did not really have to wait. THe risk of getting there a bit later is that they will sell out of everything, which happened to me the first time I was there in 2006.

If you cannot make it in the morning, they open for tea time at 2pm or 3pm, I cannot remember. Thats when they replenish the displays.

Here's a map for your advanced planning

Its not that hard to find once you are at Ginza station standing right outside Mitsukoshi. Walk towards Matsuya department store and you are on the correct side and direction.

Walk further up past Yurakucho station's exit and continue walking. You will come across Cozy Corner cake shop just before the bridge overhead. Continue walking under the bridge and take the first right turn and Hidemi's shop is a few paces from there.

Happy planning!

[Ylee]

Haven't tried Henri Charpentier, but I've been to Hidemi Sugino's and took some photos of the cakes on display before realising that I wasn't supposed to (oops). We had some lovely cakes there, but I think overall, if I had to pick only one pastry shop to return to, it would be Sadaharu Aoki's.

[NickLam]

Haven't tried Henri Charpentier, but I've been to Hidemi Sugino's and took some photos of the cakes on display before realising that I wasn't supposed to (oops). We had some lovely cakes there, but I think overall, if I had to pick only one pastry shop to return to, it would be Sadaharu Aoki's.

←

What did you have at Sada's? Did not really get anything from his shops other than the Matcha Eclair as I've been to his shop in Paris. It was good and just really curious to see how the quality gets sustained now that he has sold it off already.

[prasantrin]

What did you have at Sada's?  Did not really get anything from his shops other than the Matcha Eclair as I've been to his shop in Paris.  It was good and just really curious to see how the quality gets sustained now that he has sold it off already.

←

He sold off his shop? Just the Japanese branches, or the entire shebang?

The eclairs are the only things I like at SA. I didn't care for his cakes or chocolates, but perhaps I just chose the wrong ones.

[NickLam]

What did you have at Sada's?  Did not really get anything from his shops other than the Matcha Eclair as I've been to his shop in Paris.  It was good and just really curious to see how the quality gets sustained now that he has sold it off already.

←

He sold off his shop? Just the Japanese branches, or the entire shebang?

The eclairs are the only things I like at SA. I didn't care for his cakes or chocolates, but perhaps I just chose the wrong ones.

←

Yea, thats what he told me, but he didn't say if it was the name, the shop, or whatever, but basically, as I was trying to apply for a job there, he said the decision was not up to him, but the people at 'Hana' corporation. This is just speculation, but Hana probably bought only the Japanese operations though, and he still controls his own stuff in France. It did not come as a surprise as lots of these patisseries are bought out by Japanese corporations, like Yoku Moku and Henri Le Roux for example.

Speaking to him about Japanese pastry, it seems that his heart is more in France than it is in Japan. Not surprising though, as it was in Japan where he was told he would never succeed as a pastry chef. He is an awesome guy though and very passionate about his products and kept feeding us his Choco-rons (Enrobed macarons) and praline chocolates. Always took time out to chat with people and was very forthcoming.

[prasantrin]

Yea, thats what he told me, but he didn't say if it was the name, the shop, or whatever, but basically, as I was trying to apply for a job there, he said the decision was not up to him, but the people at 'Hana' corporation. This is just speculation, but Hana probably bought only the Japanese operations though, and he still controls his own stuff in France.  It did not come as a surprise as lots of these patisseries are bought out by Japanese corporations, like Yoku Moku and Henri Le Roux for example. 

Speaking to him about Japanese pastry, it seems that his heart is more in France than it is in Japan.  Not surprising though, as it was in Japan where he was told he would never succeed as a pastry chef.  He is an awesome guy though and very passionate about his products and kept feeding us his Choco-rons (Enrobed macarons) and praline chocolates.  Always took time out to chat with people and was very forthcoming.

←

Interesting. I'd never heard anything about his background. It doesn't surprise me that he had been told he would never make it. In general, the Japanese are very rule-governed, and if you colour outside the lines, you'll never "make it".

It's unfortunate about the buy-out, but completely understandable. I thought, but wasn't sure, that Yoku Moku had always had a hand in Henri Le Roux's Japanese operations. I noticed the Yoku Moku name on the labels of his stuff.

[NickLam]

Well, perhaps Sada can be an inspiration to those who've been told they 'can't make it'. Look at what he has achieved!

It was really eye opening when I found out that Japanese companies buy out French names to use them as brands. Peltier, unless I am mistaken, no longer exists in France, but they have outlets all over Japan. Guess its just business.

Really curious to compare Henri Le Roux' stuff in France as compared to Japan though, as the ones made in Japan do not really live up to the hype of his CBS. Hopefully next month will present just such an opportunity when I 'hop over the pond'.

Yea, thats what he told me, but he didn't say if it was the name, the shop, or whatever, but basically, as I was trying to apply for a job there, he said the decision was not up to him, but the people at 'Hana' corporation. This is just speculation, but Hana probably bought only the Japanese operations though, and he still controls his own stuff in France.  It did not come as a surprise as lots of these patisseries are bought out by Japanese corporations, like Yoku Moku and Henri Le Roux for example.  

Speaking to him about Japanese pastry, it seems that his heart is more in France than it is in Japan.  Not surprising though, as it was in Japan where he was told he would never succeed as a pastry chef.  He is an awesome guy though and very passionate about his products and kept feeding us his Choco-rons (Enrobed macarons) and praline chocolates.  Always took time out to chat with people and was very forthcoming.

←

Interesting. I'd never heard anything about his background. It doesn't surprise me that he had been told he would never make it. In general, the Japanese are very rule-governed, and if you colour outside the lines, you'll never "make it".

It's unfortunate about the buy-out, but completely understandable. I thought, but wasn't sure, that Yoku Moku had always had a hand in Henri Le Roux's Japanese operations. I noticed the Yoku Moku name on the labels of his stuff.

←

[Ylee]

Oh no, when did this happen? I was there in Oct of last year. We tried an eclair (amazing), matcha danish, and a selection of cakes. The matcha one was particularly good. I think it was called 'bamboo'.

[schneich]

sorry guys but when it comes to sada i must say iam VERY disappointed by most of his stuff. the only thing that i really liked was the caramel eclair. his petit gateau definately contain artificial flavoring and so does his chocolates (those color blocks) th most ugliest thing i tasted was one of the chocolates with a buttery strawberry filling YUCK! it tasted really really cheap !!! i thing this guy is really greedy, selling products made with low quality ingredients for a maximum of cash (six tiny choclates for 13.50 € :-(

cheers

t.

p.s. our own chocolates are way way better than ANYTHING i tasted on my last trip to paris, and boy you can believe me that i tasted a lot...

[schneich]

Interesting.  I'd never heard anything about his background.  It doesn't surprise me that he had been told he would never make it.  In general, the Japanese are very rule-governed, and if you colour outside the lines, you'll never "make it".

its not surprising that any innovation level of japanese pastry in japan is vitrually non existant. we had a japanese pastry chef once, and i really have to tell you this woman , even though working perfectly every time on the spot, was a real pain in the ass, stubborn and a real sociopath. even though i miss her 102% perfection from time to time i would never hire someone like this again.

the important trends in pastry today are not at all defined in japan, but exclusively in barcelona!

cheers

t.

[NickLam]

Hey Schneich,

Was surprised to hear that you really did not like Sada's stuff. What I had last year in Paris was not as good as 2 years ago (My friend brought some back from Paris as well as Japan to Singapore), but it wasn't bad by a long shot!

Granted of course that I did not try all his petit gateaux and cheap chocolate? I am pretty sure he is using Domori, so to hear it tasted 'cheap' probably has more to do with the strawberry flavouring (if he is indeed using it). Do you have a list of what you ate at Sada's? I'd like to go there and try them for myself and see if it indeed has become this bad!

And yea, Japan is still a bit behind when it comes to pastry innovation, they have this love affair with the French and its all really stuffy. However, for their level of technical expertise, aesthetic, lightness and purity of flavour, Japan for me is still No.1.

However, lets hope this will change as during my time in Spain, more and more Japanese were staging there too and they will bring their ideas back to Japan. Next time in Barca, I really want to visit Yann Duytsche at Dolc, have his book and he seems to be doing some great things.

But, having visited several 'famous' Patisseries in Barcelona itself, I got to say I was not that impressed. Innovative in design and concepts, yes, but taste wise.....yucks. I'm all for innovation, but back in August, when I was there, seems to be lots of style over substance.

Not to say all of them are like this, but it seems lots of Patisseries are jumping on the innovation band wagon and missing sight of the real reasons why.

What did you enjoy most in Barca?

[schneich]

i think bubo was really cool, chef mampel rocks, but a lot of the innovation there is not "on the street" its more concept and idea of people like morato & entourage at aula chocovic, torreblanca and rosich...

cheers

t.