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snowangel

Dutch VS. Regular Cocoa

48 posts in this topic

Does anyone have any experience with Hershey's Special Dark?  It is available in stores so I wouldn't have to wait for (another) shipment from King Arthur  :rolleyes:,  if it is indeed black cocoa.

Funny you should mention that -- I just tried it for the first time last night, in a macaron recipe. It is indeed very dark, as you'll see when I post pictures later tonight. Taste-wise, I don't find it unacceptable at all, though I've only tried it in one recipe.


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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Alright, here's what macarons look like with Special Dark cocoa. I know I just said I thought the taste was fine, but after some more tasting, I'm not sold on it. It does taste a little but like Oreo cookies, like Cook's said. Its not horrible by any means, and I'm sure there are people who will love its taste, but I've decided its a step backwards from the Hershey's "European Style Cocoa" it replaces.

gallery_23736_355_2601.jpg


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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Patrick S: Your macarons looks are perfect.

I have a recipe of a chocolate cup cake that calls for cocoa powder. and it containes 1 teaspoon baking soda and 1/2 teaspoon baking powder. So i used hershyes non-alkilized cocoa powder because of the amount of baking soda.

I'wondering can i still use alkilized cocoa powder instead because the non-alkali is not always available in my country?

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Patrick  S:  Your macarons looks are perfect.

I have a recipe of a chocolate cup cake that calls for cocoa powder. and it containes 1 teaspoon baking soda and 1/2 teaspoon baking powder. So i used hershyes non-alkilized cocoa powder because of the amount of baking soda.

I'wondering can i still use alkilized cocoa powder instead because the non-alkali is not always available in my country?

I prefer the taste of alkalized cocoa and have used it in everything, including cake recipes which specify natural cocoa, with no (apparent) texture or leavening problems.


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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Glad you told me so. i'll give it atry because the european style cocoa is available widley in my country and franckly speaking i dont like hershys natural cocoa.

Patrick  S:  Your macarons looks are perfect.

I have a recipe of a chocolate cup cake that calls for cocoa powder. and it containes 1 teaspoon baking soda and 1/2 teaspoon baking powder. So i used hershyes non-alkilized cocoa powder because of the amount of baking soda.

I'wondering can i still use alkilized cocoa powder instead because the non-alkali is not always available in my country?

I prefer the taste of alkalized cocoa and have used it in everything, including cake recipes which specify natural cocoa, with no (apparent) texture or leavening problems.

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I made the high hat cup cakes shown below using once natural cocoa powder and once dutch-processed.The reasults:

with natural cocoa powder: light brown color, no taste of chocolate, airy & light cake, but well rised, made 18 pices.

with dutch-process: dark brown color, real taste of chocolate, a bit dense, did not rised high like the 1st try, made 21 pices!

P1010046.jpg

P1010057.jpg

If i want to stick with the 2nd try using dutch processed cocoa, should i change the leavining amonut? (example: lower the baking soda and raise the baking powder)?and how much

Advice Urgent Please?


Edited by ALTAF (log)

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If i want to stick with the 2nd try using dutch processed cocoa, should i change the leavining amonut? (example: lower the baking soda and raise the baking powder)?and how much

Advice Urgent Please?

If the cupcakes with the dutch-process cocoa were more dense than you want, I'd increase the baking powder by maybe 25%.


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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Wow. Those cupcakes look great. Let us how they turn out with more baking powder. Would you pass along the recipe? What kind of icing is that? Mmm good. :raz:


Ilene

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If the cupcakes with the dutch-process cocoa were more dense than you want, I'd increase the baking powder by maybe 25%.

The cupcake recipecalls for 1/2 teaspoon baking soda and 1/4 baking powder. Do you mean i should increase the baking powder to 3/4 teaspoon? and in that case do i need to change the amount of baking soda?

Thanks in advance.

Wow. Those cupcakes look great. Let us how they turn out with more baking powder. Would you pass along the recipe? What kind of icing is that? Mmm good.

Thanks :smile: . You can fine the recipe at BOSTON, the name of the recipe is high hat cupcakes. You might need to register, they have a lot of desserts recipes.

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If the cupcakes with the dutch-process cocoa were more dense than you want, I'd increase the baking powder by maybe 25%.

The cupcake recipecalls for 1/2 teaspoon baking soda and 1/4 baking powder. Do you mean i should increase the baking powder to 3/4 teaspoon? and in that case do i need to change the amount of baking soda?

Actually, 125% of 1/4 would be 5/16, but I don't think we need to be that precise about it. I looked at some other cupcake recipes using dutch process cocoa, and the range seems to be around 1/2t to 2t baking powder to 1.5 cups of flour. So, if you want your cupcakes just a little less dense, I'd bump up the baking powder to 1/2t. If you want them a lot less dense, bump up the baking powder to 1-2t.


"If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced" - Vincent Van Gogh
 

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Longer version: Dutch cocoa is cocoa that has been processed with alkalai. This raises its pH from around 5.5 to about 7, making it almost neutral. Unless your recipe calls for leavening, it doesn't matter whether you use regular or Dutch; many people prefer Dutch cocoa because it is smoother (though some will say smoothness sacrifices deeper chocolate flavor). It really is a matter of taste, and you should use whichever one you want, unless you are working with pastry. In this case, the less acidic Dutch cocoa is usually preferred. An eGullet pastry person can probably advise you better than me.

Dave

Based on the above, is it safe for me to assume that I can use either dutch-process or regular (Hershey's) cocoa for a Chocolate Pound Cake recipe, the ingredients of which are:

1 cup unbleached all-purpose flour

1/2 cup unsweetened cocoa powder

Pinch of sea salt

4 large eggs, at room temperature, separated

1 cup granulated sugar

2 teaspoons vanilla extract

14 tablespoons unsalted butter, at room temperature

I have both types of cocoa, though I have more dutch-process than regular so I'd rather use dutch-process.

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Longer version: Dutch cocoa is cocoa that has been processed with alkalai. This raises its pH from around 5.5 to about 7, making it almost neutral. Unless your recipe calls for leavening, it doesn't matter whether you use regular or Dutch; many people prefer Dutch cocoa because it is smoother (though some will say smoothness sacrifices deeper chocolate flavor). It really is a matter of taste, and you should use whichever one you want, unless you are working with pastry. In this case, the less acidic Dutch cocoa is usually preferred. An eGullet pastry person can probably advise you better than me.

Dave

Based on the above, is it safe for me to assume that I can use either dutch-process or regular (Hershey's) cocoa for a Chocolate Pound Cake recipe, the ingredients of which are:

1 cup unbleached all-purpose flour

1/2 cup unsweetened cocoa powder

Pinch of sea salt

4 large eggs, at room temperature, separated

1 cup granulated sugar

2 teaspoons vanilla extract

14 tablespoons unsalted butter, at room temperature

I have both types of cocoa, though I have more dutch-process than regular so I'd rather use dutch-process.

That's right -- since there is no chemical leavening, you can use whichever type of cocoa you prefer.


Cheryl, The Sweet Side

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This may be slightly off topic, as it technically doesn't involve baking. I was at the CIA yesterday for lunch and one of the dishes we had was a chestnut-cocoa pasta. I found a recipe online, but it doesn't specify a type of cocoa. Anybody have any idea if it makes any difference what kind I might use? Dutch process or not?


Mark A. Bauman

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The thing that might make a difference is the Fat content of the cocoa powder. The dutching(I wouldn't assume) would affect the pasta. In cocoa powder you have 10-12% cocoa powder and 22-24% cocoa powder....that might make a difference but I am not to familiar with pasta....

Robert

Chocolate Forum

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Those are the two most common fat levels in cocoa powders - another very common level is 15/17 - however there are many other fat levels available, commonly achieved by blending 0% product, 10/12 product, and 22/24 product until you hit the appropriate fat level...

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Just when I thought I fully understood this whole dutch thing... I need to buy a bulk amount of dutch and am having the toughest time knowing what is and what isn't. Is the Callebaut or Valrhona dutch? It seems that websites assume that you know.


Chef, Curious Kumquat, Silver City, NM

A recent write-up in Dorado magazine

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the bulk box that i have (3x1kilo bags), which is just labeled "cocoa powder" (Valrhona) is listed on one company's website as dutched.

worldwidechocolate

from what i understand, most cocoa powder is dutched, so if it is natural, it would probably say so on the label as that is a minority.

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Thanks...I was assuming the other way around, that they would label as Dutched if it weren't natural.

The way to know for sure is to check the ingredients. "Cocoa processed with alkali" means dutch process.

I agree with the posters who say fat percentage is an important variable, and this can be harder to find out. It could make a difference in recipes that use a lot of cocoa. It also makes a difference in shelf life; the higher the fat content, the more perishable.

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That's one of the first things I learned on the P&B forums... Valrhona is always Dutch-processed :laugh: I'm guessing most European cocoa is Dutch-processed unless otherwise stated.


Mark

The Gastronomer's Bookshelf - Collaborative book reviews about food and food culture. Submit a review today! :)

No Special Effects - my reader-friendly blog about food and life.

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It is true that most, but not all, European cocoa powders are Dutched or processed with alkali.

This site lists some of them:

Cocoa powder info.

Here is another site, with even more information.

"Natural" cocoa powders are not Dutched, have a much higher acid content and react with baking soda as a levening so if you want a wafer cookie or biscuit (the kind I usually make) you have to use Dutch process cocoa powder or you will end up with a puffy item that is hollow in the middle.

(I speak from experience, having grabbed the wrong container on one occasion and the result was 8 dozen crunchy "honeycomb" flying-saucer-shaped things, not at all suitable for sandwich-type filled cookies.)

I now use labels with large type which I can read even when not wearing my glasses.


Edited by andiesenji (log)
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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

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I prefer black powders too because of the color and taste. I've used santa barbara chocolate cocoa powders and this is what they say about black cocoa and it's acidity:

Regarding Black Cocoa Powder, what is the Dutch Process?

Black cocoa develops this dark color from roasting the cocoa beans and alkalizing them. Alkalizing cocoa to different degrees allows color variation so your cookies, pie crusts or cakes can have unique and pretty chocolate color variation of lightness to darkness. Dutching also reduces the natural cocoa bean acidity so the cocoa powder won't react with baking powder in a recipe.  Dutch process also allows a variation in flavor of cocoa powders.  

You'll find Black Cocoa Powder to have a dark roast cocoa taste, earthy and heady with lighter fudge like nuances and a trailing floral flavor. Having a range of cocoa powders is popular with gelato makers because each cocoa has a unique and individual chocolate flavor so a fleet tasting of chocolate gelato can be presented for a fun and memorable experience.  

Typically the lighter the color of the cocoa the flavor will be more acidic, fruity and with low fudge notes. Medium brown cocoas will tend to have some fruit note but the fudge flavor becomes more pronounced. With red cocoas the fudge flavor becomes less pronounced and the fruit flavor tends to give way to subtle floral hints. Black cocoa offers the most robust experience characteristically earthy with not as much fudge like flavor.  The color and smell are the most intense aspects of  Black Cocoa and as a result work wonderfully in a mud pie recipe or in chocolate hazelnut gelato. (original text can be found here)


Edited by Lazar89 I have been asked to include a source and link for this text. (log)
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I think you mean the Dutching process means the cocoa will not react with baking SODA, baking POWDER contains both alkaline and acid components so reacts with neutral ingredients.  

Baking with Dutched cocoa and adding buttermilk or sour cream with baking SODA will achieve the same results.  

 

When I was in baking school in 1956 (Dunwoodie) we were schooled in how to produce a chocolate cake with a very firm, fine crumb by using Dutched cocoa, soured milk and baking soda - where baking powder would produce a looser less dense cake with more bubbles.

As we were aiming for sheet cakes to be made into petit fours, the cake had to be denser and with a tight crumb for the ideal texture.

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

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