A knife for vegetables

[john-k]

My main knife right now is a Wusthof Grand Prix chef knife, 10" or so. I like it a lot, and I keep it sharp with an edgepro. However... when it comes to slicing carrots, sweet potatoes, apples, or other especially stiff produce, it has way too much 'wedge effect'. I feel like I'm splitting firewood!

So, I'm looking for something thinner, and more nimble, that will handle vegetables with ease. Less than $100 is ideal, $200 is the very most I could spend. I know restaurant staples Dexter Russell, Forschner, and Mac all have vegetable knives:

http://www.instawares.com/sani-safe-09463-6.dex-s186.0.7.htm

http://www.restaurantsource.com/forschner-...41521-5526.aspx

http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.a...uctCode=MACJU65

Plus there are dozens of japanese brands of knives designed for veggies.. nakiris and usubas. Hattori, Masamoto, Korin, Tadafusa, Fujiwara, etc.

Questions...

Will I gain much going with some boutique Japanese brand over mac, forschner, etc?

Is there any good reason to get a usuba (single bevel) over a double bevel? The razorblade-on-a-stick aspect of the usuba is appealing to me, and I'd like to improve my skills with very thin slices... but they cost significantly more. And there is less selection.

How much nicer are non-stainless carbon steel over stainless, edge wise?

Any pointers anyone could give me?

[localherbavore]

My main knife right now is a Wusthof Grand Prix chef knife, 10" or so. I like it a lot, and I keep it sharp with an edgepro. However... when it comes to slicing carrots, sweet potatoes, apples, or other especially stiff produce, it has way too much 'wedge effect'. I feel like I'm splitting firewood!

So, I'm looking for something thinner, and more nimble, that will handle vegetables with ease. Less than $100 is ideal, $200 is the very most I could spend. I know restaurant staples Dexter Russell, Forschner, and Mac all have vegetable knives:

http://www.instawares.com/sani-safe-09463-6.dex-s186.0.7.htm

http://www.restaurantsource.com/forschner-...41521-5526.aspx

http://www.knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.a...uctCode=MACJU65

Plus there are dozens of japanese brands of knives designed for veggies.. nakiris and usubas. Hattori, Masamoto, Korin, Tadafusa, Fujiwara, etc.

Questions...

Will I gain much going with some boutique Japanese brand over mac, forschner, etc?

Is there any good reason to get a usuba (single bevel) over a double bevel? The razorblade-on-a-stick aspect of the usuba is appealing to me, and I'd like to improve my skills with very thin slices... but they cost significantly more. And there is less selection.

How much nicer are non-stainless carbon steel over stainless, edge wise?

Any pointers anyone could give me?

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I use Global brand for just about everything, but I do have an awesome nikiri I bought in Chintown (Chicago) for $20.00 that is an insane-fast veg prep knife. But when the day ends, from butchering chickens, breaking down monkfish tails, or cutting matchstick carrots the knife I use for all is the Global Oriental Chef's Knife (It's almost worn down to nothing from constant honing and sharpring.

[lperry]

My main knife right now is a Wusthof Grand Prix chef knife, 10" or so. I like it a lot, and I keep it sharp with an edgepro. However... when it comes to slicing carrots, sweet potatoes, apples, or other especially stiff produce, it has way too much 'wedge effect'. I feel like I'm splitting firewood!

So, I'm looking for something thinner, and more nimble, that will handle vegetables with ease.

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Thank you for starting this topic. I love my Henckel chef's knife for things like winter squash and splitting melons, but I'd like something else for more delicate tasks. I'm curious to see what people recommend.

[Hard H2O]

Here is the one I have. Wasabi Nakiri

It sharpens up nice and the price is right.

I think I got it online at New Graham.

[Anna N]

Here is the one I have. Wasabi Nakiri

It sharpens up nice and the price is right.

I think I got it online at New Graham.

←

This is the knife I picked up purely on spec. from Winners for less than $10! It is awesome.

[Hard H2O]

This is the knife I picked up purely on spec. from Winners for less than $10!  It is awesome.

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I sharpen mine to 11° per side on the GATCO and she cuts like a laser. Tomatoes quake in fear in it's presence.

[Octaveman]

Questions...

Will I gain much going with some boutique Japanese brand over mac, forschner, etc?

Is there any good reason to get a usuba (single bevel) over a double bevel? The razorblade-on-a-stick aspect of the usuba is appealing to me, and I'd like to improve my skills with very thin slices... but they cost significantly more. And there is less selection.

How much nicer are non-stainless carbon steel over stainless, edge wise?

Any pointers anyone could give me?

←

Yes, but I wouldn't call them boutique brands. Most Japanese brands out there are availalble and as common as Henckles, Wusthoff, et al. Just not here in the US. Pretty much any brand within your budget will be a better performer than Euro knives for thinness and clean cutting ability.

No. An Usuba is not the ideal knife for use in American kitchens unless of course you make a lot of thin sliced food. The Nakiri would be better in this respect if you want to use the same basic profile. The edge of an Usuba is certainly thin but it get's thick pretty quickly. It's much more fragile and harder to maintain than a Nakiri.

Nicer? Not sure I understand what you mean. VG10 is stainless and holds an edge rather well for stainless. A carbon knife would still be superior in terms of sharpeness and durability but VG10 gets close. Some of the tool steels can hold it's edge longer than VG10 but could be tougher to sharpen if you're a novice.

A knife for veggies? It's my opinion that a Gyuto would be more versatile than a Nakiri. Check out this thread below for ideas.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=120321

[Batard]

I have a Kershaw 6.5 inch nakiri that I picked up for around $25.00 and am really happy with. I had my eye on the Shun Pro 6-1/2-Inch Nakiri with its VG-10 blade, but it's a bit expensive considering how often I would use it.

[Hard H2O]

I have a Kershaw 6.5 inch nakiri that I picked up for around $25.00 and am really happy with. I had my eye on the Shun Pro 6-1/2-Inch Nakiri with its VG-10 blade, but it's a bit expensive considering how often I would use it.

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Does yours have the composite bamboo handle?

[Batard]

Does yours have the composite bamboo handle?

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Yes, it's a plastic/bamboo composite. I think all Kershaw Wasabi knives use the same handle. I'm not a good knife sharpener, so I like that it is double beveled. I got mine at Amazon.

[localherbavore]

This is the knife I picked up purely on spec. from Winners for less than $10!  It is awesome.

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I sharpen mine to 11° per side on the GATCO and she cuts like a laser. Tomatoes quake in fear in it's presence.

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Can you tell me more about this sharpener? How long does it last? How much does it cost? Does it work with all types of metal? What is the honing surface made of?

[Hard H2O]

Can you tell me more about this sharpener? How long does it last? How much does it cost? Does it work with all types of metal? What is the honing surface made of?

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I have the GATCO Professonal. It is a rod guided system similar to the Lansky. Mine has the natural stones. You can get one with diamond hones.

The GATCO gives you more angle options than the other rod guided systems short of the Edge Pro.

I have had mine for a few years and I am in need of new extra coarse and coarse stones.

It has worked on every blade I have tried except the very narrow ones like on the Victorinox Cassic. I have done paring knives, boning, fillet, 10" chefs, 8" santuko, 6.5" nakiri, numerous hunting fixed and folding knives, numerous EDC type folders.

I added GATCO's extra fine and ultimate finishing hones. I also finish on leather hones loaded with white and red polishing compound.

I purchased my kit from Cabela's. Rght now the kit is running around $45. Gatco Professional

I purchased the accessory stones direct from GATCO.

My leather for stropping is from Tandy. The polishing compound is from Sears.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Hard H2O (log)

[Batard]

The GATCO gives you more angle options than the other rod guided systems short of the Edge Pro.

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These might be better asked in the "stupid questions" thread, but I am new to home sharpening, so here goes. Do you find the number of angles it will sharpen, 29, 25, 22, 19, 15 and 11 degrees, to be sufficient? Is fine grit sufficient to give the edge a nice finish, or do you need the superfine as well? Will the Gatco Pro work on thinnish blades like Global and other Japanese knives (like my Nakiri)?

Edited January 20, 2009 by Batard (log)

[john-k]

A knife for veggies?  It's my opinion that a Gyuto would be more versatile than a Nakiri.

Even than a santoku, vegetable-wise? I'd assume, based on form, that its a nice compromise between nakiris/usubas and chef's knives.

I really don't prepare a whole lot of meat or fish. At least half of what I chop are garlic and onions, no exaggeration. Mostly in fairly coarse slices/dices... but I'm trying to go in the direction of having more <1mm slices of garlic, onions, radishes, etc.

[paulraphael]

I agree with Octaveman. There's nothing one of those wee knives can do that a gyuto can't. But a gyuto can handle much more than they can, much more efficiently. I'd consider a Nakiri/santoku if I was limited to using a truly tiny cutting board. but in that case i'd probably just use it to open a vein and check out of the kitchen for good!

[Hard H2O]

These might be better asked in the "stupid questions" thread, but I am new to home sharpening, so here goes. Do you find the number of angles it will sharpen, 29, 25, 22, 19, 15 and 11 degrees, to be sufficient? Is fine grit sufficient to give the edge a nice finish, or do you need the superfine as well? Will the Gatco Pro work on thinnish blades like Global and other Japanese knives (like my Nakiri)?

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I find the angles enough. At 11° my kitchen cutlery slice real nice. If I need to go lower I have an Arkansas tri-hone.

The grit, with the addition of the extra fine and ultimate finishing (ceramic) is sufficient for a nice polish. I go to the two leatherstrops for a mirror polish and finish.

I know that it does a great job on my Wasabi Nakiri, my 10" Chicago Cutlery chef and my 8" Tramontina santuko. I am sure that anything similar will doe fine. I do not have anything with any single bevels so I do not know about that.

[Hard H2O]

I agree with Octaveman. There's nothing one of those wee knives can do that a gyuto can't. But a gyuto can handle much more than they can, much more efficiently. I'd consider a Nakiri/santoku if I was limited to using a truly tiny cutting board. but in that case i'd probably just use it to open a vein and check out of the kitchen for good!

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You are still with us so I see that that hasn't happened. Nice that we are not limited to just one.

On the various blade and knife forums someone will start a just one thread every so often. To me it is an annoying premise. Unless you are thrown off a boat and end up on an island with just what is in your pocket you are not limited to one of anything in your own kitchen. Sometimes I hve found myself at the mercy of the owner of a different kitchen. It might be a cabin, a rental condo, the brother-in-laws. That is why I pack a few knives when I can. When hunting and fishing I always have an assortment.

The nakiri and the santuko are nice to have in the block. They have their uses.

The nakiri is nice and thin and takes a nice edge. It is due for a sharpening. When I need to slice some vegetation I reach for it.

It is not a chopper or dicer.

[Octaveman]

Those threads that ask for just one knife suggestion are not flawed. The poster is looking for a chef's knife...the most used knife in the kitchen. Maybe he/she already has a few other knives that are used and wants to get a new chef's knife. Maybe the budget doesn't allow for multiple purchases at this time. Someone taking the first step into Japanese knives by asking for recs on a single knife should not be told they are annoying people with their questions or idea of buying a single knife.

A gyuto is nice too. A gyuto is just as thin and in many cases thinner than a Nakiri or Santoku. A gyuto takes a nice edge too. But a gyuto gets longer than 6 inches AND you can do more with it. If people have a set budget and they'd rather spend it on a few knives all about the same length just so they can say they have variety then more power to ya. I don't understand why one would have a Nakiri and a Santoku. They're basically the same size and style of knife. I see it as duplication and wasted money. It makes more sense to spend your money on a single knife to do 90% of the work. You will get all one desires in addition to a materially higher quality blade. I'm always amazed that people have several knives to do the same thing and are the same size. The logic escapes me. Yes, I have several gyuto's but before each night's prep I pick one and use only that one for all veggie prep. If I'm going to someone's house I bring one knife. Maybe two if I'm breaking down fish or fowl.

p.s. A Nakiri can also be a chopper or dicer. It's not just a slicing knife. I couldn't find a video using a Nakiri but here is a couple using an usuba...a single beveled Nakiri. There is also a pluthera of video's with a gyuto in use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYUeSEyxQ3M&feature=related

Edited January 21, 2009 by Octaveman (log)

[john-k]

Well, my reluctance to get a gyuto is that I want to have a minimal number of knives (small kitchen), and keeping their types diverse is helpful towards this. Also, I have a feeling a nice gyuto would make the Wusthof obsolete, and justified getting the Wusthof on never having to replace it. I admit thats not entirely rational thinking... but that seems to be pretty common when cutlery is involved!

I can't tell from the tiny pictures, but this link seems to be showing the sorts of tasks one would do with an usuba?:

Description of katsuramuki

[paulraphael]

One approach is to think in terms of performance/fragility instead of just size/shape.

I have a gyuto that handles most of my prep. But the price for its thin, hard edge that makes it perform so well is that it's fragile. So tasks that are tougher on a blade, like lopping off the head of a fish, taking a chicken apart, and chopping blocks of chocolate, go to my much heavier German chef's knife. This knife is fatter, is made of tougher, more resilient steel, and is sharpened to more obtuse angles. So it leans toward durabiltiy rather than performance. It can handle any task in a pinch, but I need it for the rough stuff.

[naguere]

Here is the one I have. Wasabi Nakiri

It sharpens up nice and the price is right.

I think I got it online at New Graham.

←

This is the knife I picked up purely on spec. from Winners for less than $10! It is awesome.

←

Anna N , you lucky devil. $10.... or less.......

I have just ordered this knife from New Graham, the postage to the U.K. is a reasonable $6.90

[Anna N]

Here is the one I have. Wasabi Nakiri

It sharpens up nice and the price is right.

I think I got it online at New Graham.

←

This is the knife I picked up purely on spec. from Winners for less than $10! It is awesome.

←

Anna N , you lucky devil. $10.... or less.......

I have just ordered this knife from New Graham, the postage to the U.K. is a reasonable $6.90

←

Yep! Somewhere on an old topic someone mentioned that these knives show up on occasion at Winners but I never expected to find one. Then one day I was out with Kerry Beal and we dropped into Winners just to browse and there it was and I recognized the name from eG. So, once again, being a member of eG paid off!

I needed yet another knife like I needed a hole in the head but I have fallen in love with this one.

[Katie Meadow]

For vegetables I use a ceramic knife exclusively. I am positive that everyone who has posted on this thread knows ten times more about knives than I ever will, because I know almost nothing about them. I am assuming that none of the knives mentioned above are ceramic. I think of myself as a pretty decent cook and I am fast and accurate when it comes to vegetable prep work.

Our knives are a motley assortment of carbon and other types of steel, none of them terribly pricy and most of them old. Except for my one Kyocera ceramic knife. In size it's somewhere between a small knife and a chef's knife. It's very sharp, the blade is thin, and it cuts through an onion like butter, through tomato skin like it wasn't there and, in my hand at least, is agile enough to cut the choke from an artichoke heart without unnecessary waste. I use it all the time, every day, especially for vegetables.

In about nine or ten years this is my third ceramic knife. They don't last forever of course, mostly because someone (not me) drops them and they break. I have learned the hard way to keep my ceramic knife off limits to all family members. I use it, wash it, dry it and put it away myself. That way if it breaks no one but me has to feel miserable about it. The edge does wear down eventually, but if I can keep them from breaking I can get at least three years out of one knife. For about $50 or or $60 every few years I get a great knife I use every day and never have to sharpen. Works for me.

[Hard H2O]

For vegetables I use a ceramic knife exclusively. I am positive that everyone who has posted on this thread knows ten times more about knives than I ever will, because I know almost nothing about them. I am assuming that none of the knives mentioned above are ceramic. I think of myself as a pretty decent cook and I am fast and accurate when it comes to vegetable prep work.

Our knives are a motley assortment of carbon and other types of steel, none of them terribly pricy and most of them old. Except for my one Kyocera ceramic knife. In size it's somewhere between a small knife and a chef's knife. It's very sharp, the blade is thin, and it cuts through an onion like butter, through tomato skin like it wasn't there and, in my hand at least, is agile enough to cut the choke from an artichoke heart without unnecessary waste. I use it all the time, every day, especially for vegetables.

In about nine or ten years this is my third ceramic knife. They don't last forever of course, mostly because someone (not me) drops them and they break. I have learned the hard way to keep my ceramic knife off limits to all family members. I use it, wash it, dry it and put it away myself. That way if it breaks no one but me has to feel miserable about it. The edge does wear down eventually, but if I can keep them from breaking I can get at least three years out of one knife. For about $50 or or $60 every few years I get a great knife I use every day and never have to sharpen. Works for me.

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For half the price you can have a Kershaw Shun Wasabi Nakiri and you will have:

...a knife that will do the same work

...a thinner profile

...a blade that will support a thinner edge geometry for superior cutting, slicing and dicing

...last as long as the steel will wear through sharpening (decades?)

...sharpenable so that the edge is maintained and will not be duller as the years and use pile up

...will not break or chip when dropped or otherwise banged against a pot or counter

...will not require you to safeguard against it's use by others

The only thing I can see that the ceramics have over other blades is that they will not patina or rust. I prefer stainless steel so that is not an issue for me.

[Katie Meadow]

Okay, not to embarrass me or my husband, but here's our hurdle. I don't like to sharpen knives. It sets my teeth on edge and makes me nervous. My husband likes to sharpen knives (with a steel and a stone) but he doesn't know how to do it properly. Here's what has happened to our stainless steel knives: He invariably--over the years--wears them down unevenly, so the knife blade ends up with a slight convex curve. In other words if you put the cutting edge on a board you could see light coming through the middle. Functionless, right? Walk in my clogs and try mincing parsley with a tool like that.

I will take a look at the knife you are suggesting, but I may have to make a choice between extra cost and harmony vs. steel and strife. Thanks!