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Princeton Study on Sugar Addiction


K8memphis

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I mean this is a no brainer to me because clearly I am a sugar addict.

Here is something interesting about this fascinating subject.

A Princeton University scientist will present new evidence today demonstrating that sugar can be an addictive substance, wielding its power over the brains of lab animals in a manner similar to many drugs of abuse.

Professor Bart Hoebel and his team in the Department of Psychology and the Princeton Neuroscience Institute ...(says that) Until now, the rats under study have met two of the three elements of addiction. They have demonstrated a behavioral pattern of increased intake and then showed signs of withdrawal. His current experiments captured craving and relapse to complete the picture.

... Their motivation for sugar had grown. "In this case, abstinence makes the heart grow fonder," Hoebel said.

The whole article is here.

We're Pushers!!!! Guilty!

No cookies for you!!

So all the elements for addiction have been captured, documented here. What do you think? Surprised?

Edited by K8memphis (log)
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Just another thing for people to become scared of.

I believe we are equally as addicted to sugar as we are listening to music or driving. Try to take that away from a 19 year old and tell them they can never have it back.

ehh.....

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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I get shaky when I eat it, my mouth waters ..I can not focus on anything else but what I am doing ....cake..cookie.. a chocolate bar ..Indian sweets are the worst for me and they are very sugary sugar!!!!

and am completely unable to stop myself from wanting more and more..once I take a bite .... ..I have never found an end to how much sugar I can consume ...before I will pass out in a sugar coma ....and when I give it up I am very grouchy and have a horrible three day headache

I would say I have some sort of chemical/brain/addiction issue with sugar!

of course I have to run my own double blind a few times a year just to make sure I still have issues...

and I do

Edited by hummingbirdkiss (log)
why am I always at the bottom and why is everything so high? 

why must there be so little me and so much sky?

Piglet 

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"Hungry rats that binge on sugar provoke a surge of dopamine in their brains. After a month, the structure of the brains of these rats adapts to increased dopamine levels, showing fewer of a certain type of dopamine receptor than they used to have and more opioid receptors. These dopamine and opioid systems are involved in motivation and reward, systems that control wanting and liking something. Similar changes also are seen in the brains of rats on cocaine and heroin."

I really believe this is exactly what is going on in my brian when I have a sugar binge...am so like this rat!

Edited by hummingbirdkiss (log)
why am I always at the bottom and why is everything so high? 

why must there be so little me and so much sky?

Piglet 

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Just another thing for people to become scared of.

I believe we are equally as addicted to sugar as we are listening to music or driving.  Try to take that away from a 19 year old and tell them they can never have it back.

ehh.....

Clear scientific difference between an obsession and an addiction.

Addictions are not only scarry, 'pure innocent natural sugar' is a purely jaded chemical that carries the same addicting properties as an opiate says the researchers. That's a lot to swallow (gotta have it now and more too!!)

In light of that, the fallout here is more health issues. Rather than folks breaking into bakeries and gorging pastry, the collateral damage is to our health. Not only that but the health of our families.

Viewing this as the addiction that it is resets all the buttons for weight control and health maintenance.

signed, fellow rat

ps. I'm making tea-rings this weekend to sell in the bookstore. The brown sugar is about as thick as the dough. And I'm making the tea jelly to give as a Christmas gift with the linzer cookie recipe. Someone shoot me.

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I get shaky when I eat it, my mouth waters ..I can not focus on anything else but what I am doing ....cake..cookie.. a chocolate bar ..Indian sweets are the worst for me and they are very sugary sugar!!!!

and am completely unable to stop myself from wanting more and more..once I take a bite .... ..I have never found an end to how much sugar I can consume ...before I will pass out in a sugar coma ....and when I give it up I am very grouchy and have a horrible three day headache

I would say I have some sort of chemical/brain/addiction issue with sugar!

of course I have to run my own double blind a few times a year just to make sure I still have issues...

and I do

I challenge anyone to try and give up sugar, corn syrup, honey, splenda all the sugary things that can spike the blood chemistry. I mean even fruit, fruit juice. Onions and carrots are high in sugar.

Try to elimnate sugar and items that turn to sugar immediately in our system like saltine crackers. You will experience withdrawal in proportion to the amounts you are avoiding.

The skin gets so pretty when we are off sugar. Got droopy eyelids? Eliminate sugar et al. The brain funcitons so much more clearly when we get off sugar. Truly truly truly. But you're gonna feel like poo and crabby too. And you're gonna wonder why it's so hard and you're gonna relapse like a junkie on skid row.

Hope someone comes up with a methodone, nicotene patch or something. Cold turkey hasn't been real effective for moi. At least not any of the myriad times I've done it.

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I think you will find that the text from Dr. Hoebel's Princeton web page paints the research in a different light:

Addiction Research. The Hoebel laboratory has discovered that drugs of abuse share a common withdrawal mechanism. In the nucleus accumbens, during withdrawal from nicotine, morphine, diazepam, alcohol and even sugar, acetylcholine levels are relatively high compared to dopamine. This is indicative of an aversive neurochemical state that the animals will work to avoid. Therefore it may be one cause of self-medication leading to drug relapse or breaking one's diet.

Sugar Addiction. Recent research is focused on the laboratory's mounting evidence for sugar dependency. Rats that binge on sugar develop signs of addiction, such as bingeing, sensitization, withdrawal and craving-like behavior. The researchers conclude that mild addiction is natural in that very sweet foods can lead to dependency under some conditions. Sugar triggers the production of the opioids. Dopamine tends to initiate food seeking, while opioids can prolong the meal. “We think that is a key to the addiction process,” Hoebel says. “The brain is getting addicted to its own opioids as it would to morphine or heroin. Drugs give a bigger effect, but it is essentially the same process.”

Summary. Drugs of abuse act on brain circuits for behavior reinforcement. Some of these circuits, such as dopamine and opioid pathways, are also used in food seeking and eating. Therefore, Professor Hoebel hypothesized that under certain conditions, such as repetitive, intermittent bingeing on very sweet food, feeding behavior might lead to a natural form of substance abuse. This animal model of food addiction may relate to binge eating disorder and bulimia in humans.

None of this precludes, say, binging on very fatty foods from producing a similar kind of reaction in the brain. This doesn't necessarily point to sugar as an inherrently addictive substance in the way that, say, nicotine is. It does point out that it is possible to "get hooked on sugar" and suggests that this is likely a broad problem in American society due to the prevalence of sugars in our foods. It does not mean, however, that eating the occasional cookie or drinking the occasional full sugar coke will turn us into shivering sugar-fiends.

Edited by slkinsey (log)

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I think you will find that the text from url=http://weblamp.princeton.edu/~psych/psychology/research/hoebel/index.php]Dr. Hoebel's Princeton web page paints the research in a different light:

None of this precludes, say, binging on very fatty foods from producing a similar kind of reaction in the brain.  This doesn't necessarily point to sugar as an inherrently addictive substance in the way that, say, nicotine is.  It does point out that it is possible to "get hooked on sugar" and suggests that this is likely a broad problem in American society due to the prevalence of sugars in our foods.  It does not mean, however, that eating the occasional cookie or drinking the occasional full sugar coke will turn us into shivering sugar-fiends.

I'm not seeing the different light--not trying to be dense. Type real slow for me. :biggrin:

I'm not seeing any information here that high fat foods produce similar reactions.

I agree that an occasional cookie is an indication of nothing. The research says binging brings on the bad results. Few of us are occasional Coke drinkers. And coke would be an intensified sugar rush. Speaking of Coke, brb...

It's that so many of us are already addicted. This impacts us all differently with our different small and large health issues anyway. Try going without it.

It's an important finding.

Edited by K8memphis (log)
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This study hasn't been peer-reviewed from what I can read at the link. I am skeptical about the way this experiment was constructed and of the observations drawn from it, as well.

I think addiction is overstating the matter. I don't recall ever reading of anyone turning to a life of prostititution or violent crime over an addiction to cakes.

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I'm not seeing any information here that high fat foods produce similar reactions.

That's because they didn't study that. The point I'm making is that they didn't necessarily identify anything about sugar that makes it any more intrinsically addictive than other things. What they did was show that, under certain conditions, laboratory animals exhibited an addiction response associated with the consumption of sugar. The authors are also quite clear that it is not the sugar, per se, that is addictive. Indeed, they go out of their way to point out that the addiction is to the opioids, saying that "the brain is getting addicted to its own opioids as it would to morphine or heroin. Drugs give a bigger effect, but it is essentially the same process." If you read their summary, it is quite clear that anything that might trigger the release of opioids in the brain (pain, for example, or fat or fear or whatever) could eventually create a similar addiction response.

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If you read their summary, it is quite clear that anything that might trigger the release of opioids in the brain (pain, for example, or fat or fear or whatever) could eventually create a similar addiction response.

Or jogging!

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This study hasn't been peer-reviewed from what I can read at the link.  I am skeptical about the way this experiment was constructed and of the observations drawn from it, as well.

I think addiction is overstating the matter.  I don't recall ever reading of anyone turning to a life of prostititution or violent crime over an addiction to cakes.

I always come up with this anaology. The doctor who discovered that not washing hands between patients was killing us was peer reviewed into unemployment, depression and a miserable lonely early death.

Clearly it's ok to have that as one's barometer. But it's not mine.

I'd say there's not a great degree of prostitution involved more because sugar is so readily available/accepted, permeating our society and gaining on us rather than it's not being addictive.

It's an easy experiment.

And we are right to question all these areas of peering into the research. However, just try getting off sugar et al. That is withdrawal.

Do we limit our children's intake of celery?

There are three things that make up addiction as was listed in the original post--sugar hits the mark with all three.

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Right. K8memphis's point that sugar is so pervasive in processed foods, etc. in our society that many people may already display this addiction response in association with consumption of sugar is well made. There is nothing in this paper that speaks to that one way or the other. I do, however, agree that overconsumption of sugar in processed foods is a problem. I don't eat processed foods as a general rule of thumb, so I am not particularly concerned about putting syrup on my waffles. More to the point, however, there is nothing in the author's description that suggests that sugar is an intrinsically addictive substance the way acohol, nicotine and morphine are. Indeed, they specifically say the opposite.

Edited by slkinsey (log)

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I mean it's not rocket science.

I'm not running to the kitchen to eat sticks of butter or fois.

It's an intriguing study. It's an interesting take on sugar.

I know I am addicted. I did not need the study.

Manufacturers are adding more and more sweeteners to foods.

Growers are cultivating our fruits and veggies to have higher sugar content.

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Perhaps I can put it another way. You are running to the kitchen to eat sugar, and not foie gras and butter. You may reasonably say that you are addicted to sugar, and this paper gives some initial support to this being a neurological reality.

I, on the other hand, am running to the kitchen for foie gras and butter, and I don't give a crap about sugar. It would be infinitely more difficult for me to give up fat than it would be to give up sugar in my diet. Other people may be out there running, period. And it would be very difficult for them to give that up. The authors comments suggest that a similar addiction mechanism is likely for both my cravings for fat and the runner's fondness for the "runner's high."

So, what are we to condlude from this? That sugar is an addictive substance the same way that heroin is an addictive substance? That your "sugar addiction" is real and my "fat addiction" is fake? Or, rather, that it is possible for a variety of substances, and indeed activities to produce an addiction response with respect to things that are not intrinsically addictive in and of themselves?

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Right.  K8memphis's point that sugar is so pervasive in processed foods, etc. in our society that many people may already display this addiction response in association with consumption of sugar.  There is nothing in this paper that speaks to that one way or the other.  I do, however, agree that overconsumption of sugar in processed foods is a problem.  I don't eat processed foods as a general rule of thumb, so I am not particularly concerned about putting syrup on my waffles.  More to the point, however, there is nothing in the author's description that suggests that sugar is an intrinsically addictive substance the way acohol, nicotine and morphine are.  Indeed, they specifically say the opposite.

Do you mean that for example crack cocaine is said to be immediately addicting whereas other things take time to hook you?

You are equating the immediacy of the need with it being addictive? If that's what you mean I don't think that's one of the properties of addiction.

Sugar is a highly processed food. I'm so not following you.

Intrinsically? I mean you gotta eat it.

Edited by K8memphis (log)
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The paper says this,

Professor Bart Hoebel and his team in the Department of Psychology and the Princeton Neuroscience Institute have been studying signs of sugar addiction in rats for years. Until now, the rats under study have met two of the three elements of addiction. They have demonstrated a behavioral pattern of increased intake and then showed signs of withdrawal. His current experiments captured craving and relapse to complete the picture.

"If bingeing on sugar is really a form of addiction, there should be long-lasting effects in the brains of sugar addicts," Hoebel said. "Craving and relapse are critical components of addiction, and we have been able to demonstrate these behaviors in sugar-bingeing rats in a number of ways."

Running puts endorphins into your head and you feel good. The three components of addiction are not involved.

French fries, butter and driving and music can be obsessions maybe they can be addictions. I dont' know. We need other studies for those.

This study which is not peer reviewed is about sugar.

There are three components to addiction. According to this study they have documented the third one. That's exciting. That gives hope. That gives something for the peer reviewers to chew on coming up.

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Intrinsically means that the substance itself is what you are addicted to. When one becomes addicted to, say, nicotine, one becomes addicted to the nicotine itself. It's not that you smoke a cigarette and then your brain produces some other chemical that your brain likes, and you get addicted to that other chemical. You're hooked to the actual nicotine.

The way the authors have described their model, it works like this: You binge on tons of sugar with some frequency. Eventually, following a significant history of this binge behavior, your brain starts to produce opiates in response to these binges. Your brain likes opiates. Opiates are addictive. You become addicted to these opiates. Since binging on sugar is a way of getting your brain to produce these opiates, you continue to binge on sugar in order to feed your addiction to opiates.

Note that you are not addicted to sugar. You are addicted to the opiates.

Now, let us rephrase:

You binge on rich, fatty foods with some frequency. Eventually, following a significant history of this binge behavior, your brain starts to produce opiates in response to these binges. Your brain likes opiates. Opiates are addictive. You become addicted to these opiates. Since binging on rich, fatty foods is a way of getting your brain to produce these opiates, you continue to binge on rich, fatty foods in order to feed your addiction to opiates.

Note that you are not addicted to rich, fatty foods. You are addicted to the opiates.

One more time:

You visit a dominatrix with some frequency. Eventually, following a significant history of this BDSM behavior, your brain starts to produce opiates in response to these assignations. Your brain likes opiates. Opiates are addictive. You become addicted to these opiates. Since visiting a dominatrix is a way of getting your brain to produce these opiates, you continue to visit a dominatrix in order to feed your addiction to opiates.

Note that you are not addicted to being spanked by a woman wearing a rubber cat suit. You are addicted to the opiates.

The paper says this. . .

No, actually, the paper does not say that. The press release publicizing the research says that, in a sound-bite from one of the authors. We don't know what the paper says at this point. It has not been published.

Edited by slkinsey (log)

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Intrinsically means that the substance itself is what you are addicted to.  When one becomes addicted to, say, nicotine, one becomes addicted to the nicotine itself.  It's not that you smoke a cigarette and then your brain produces some other chemical that your brain likes, and you get addicted to that other chemical.  You're hooked to the actual nicotine.

The way the authors have described their model, it works like this:  You binge on tons of sugar with some frequency.  Eventually, following a significant history of this binge behavior, your brain starts to produce opiates in response to these binges.  Your brain likes opiates.  Opiates are addictive.  You become addicted to these opiates.  Since binging on sugar is a way of getting your brain to produce these opiates, you continue to binge on sugar in order to feed your addiction to opiates. 

Note that you are not addicted to sugar.  You are addicted to the opiates.

Now, let us rephrase:

You binge on rich, fatty foods with some frequency.  Eventually, following a significant history of this binge behavior, your brain starts to produce opiates in response to these binges.  Your brain likes opiates.  Opiates are addictive.  You become addicted to these opiates.  Since binging on rich, fatty foods is a way of getting your brain to produce these opiates, you continue to binge on rich, fatty foods in order to feed your addiction to opiates.

Note that you are not addicted to rich, fatty foods.  You are addicted to the opiates.

One more time:

You visit a dominatrix with some frequency.  Eventually, following a significant history of this BDSM behavior, your brain starts to produce opiates in response to these assignations.  Your brain likes opiates.  Opiates are addictive.  You become addicted to these opiates.  Since visiting a dominatrix is a way of getting your brain to produce these opiates, you continue to visit a dominatrix in order to feed your addiction to opiates. 

Note that you are not addicted to being spanked by a woman wearing a rubber cat suit.  You are addicted to the opiates.

What page was that on in the study?

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Addiction modeling takes on different facets depending on who is making the model. The disease model of addiction (chronic and persitent use culminating in death) is quite popular with the folks who run rehabilitation centers. Many people conflate disease and dependence as well as dependence and addiction.

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Alright, I think this is all very simple. Everything comes down to lifestyle. If you develop a lifestyle that limits your carbohydrate intake than everthing will return back to normal, even the chemical exchange in your brain.

Unfortunately or fortunately with my reading of genetics and neuroscience I have developed a new opinion about addiction and obsession. I realize now that people can possess a range of copies of the same gene that can attribute to a large array of things. I have never been addicted to really anything, except maybe working so it has always been difficult for me to understand a persons infatuation and their inability to live in moderation. I first started to notice it when all of my friends went off to college, some became alcoholics, some became drug addicts and some became, well, fat. I understand now that having two copies of one specific gene can attribute to and addiction while having one copy seems to be in moderation and not possessing a specific gene results in ill desire for a particular substance. The same goes for everything in life we experience like sex, religion, spirituality, competition, exercise, working or anything (which is everything) that involves neurotransmitters to activate, even doing absolutely nothing causes effects in the brain.

To those arguing about fat, that is a difficult subject in itself. I read a nutrition book some years ago (forgot the title) where the author proclaimed people having an addiction to fat rather than an addiction to sugar. Her reasoning was that people are far more likely to select doughnuts, pies, pastries, chocolate, etc instead of a lollipop, popsicle, gummie bears, etc. I partially agree still with that, except for adolescents. But I don't think we are addicted to fat exactly, I believe we are addicted to a product that contains fat. Fat livens up a food like a flower or fruit does for a plant. It entices us to eat it by creating a very pleasant mouthfeel and distributing a wonderful aroma that activates our saliva glands. We yearn for food with fat it in naturally. So because we want fattening food so much, intuitively scientist over the last 50 years have been telling us to eat a low fat diet, ehh? Fat is far more important to our bodily functions than carbohydrates, especially refined sugar. So we decided as a nation to steer clear of fattening foods like meats, dairy, eggs, etc and we started eating far more cereal grains. Soon enough we were loading our cornflakes up with table sugar and replacing eggs and ham at the table with bagels, toast, doughnuts, english muffins, etc that were all draped in either butter, honey, jelly or all of the above. How does complex vital amino acids and proteins with health benefitting fatty acids get replaced by refined crap that does nothing more than excite glycemic levels?

I probably could go on forever here, but I think we need to start changing our lifestyles. If you are too busy to eat, you don't have to worry about snacking on crackers, cookies, cheetos, fritos, snackwells, marshmallows or any of the manufactured goods. But make sure you take time to eat properly. take one or two days a week to prepare all of your food (as well as possible) for the next couple of days. Make some stocks, dry some fruit and snack on that. I like to bake/dry all kinds of stuff in advance and snack on that.

Sugar is an unnecessary attraction, the sooner we realize it the better. But that doesn't mean when you go out to eat you have to refuse DESSERT! Put down the doughnut so you can eat my chocolate mousse!

thank you.

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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I think its fair to say we are addicted to sugar if its creating an elevation in the brain that is itself addicting. The sugar is not going to change its effect and we can't strip the brain of opioids just because we would like to stop eating more sugar. I think the argument against the addiction of sugar because of the chemical exchange is weak. Just because nicotine goes straight to the brain and sugar does not, means absolutely nothing. Thats like saying someone isn't addicted to cigarettes, they are addicted to nicotine. Well thats just grasping at straws for someone who just wants to argue, because its not true.

I am not addicted to roses, I am addicted to their smell, well guess what, I am addicted to roses.

things are part of a whole, one thing stimulates the next, so the key is to find the functional point, the point of contact that we can alter. Are we going to start eating a chemical that suppresses the opioid function and then eat sugar? No, thats ridiculous, just change your lifestyle because the act of eating sugar is an addiction.

There were scientists (I think one was Dean Hanmer but dont quote me) who were studying the addiction of cigarettes. They notice that the addiction wasn't simply nicotine, it was the physical act of smoking. People became so involved with the physical act of smoking that even when the reduced their addiction to nicotine, or their urge, it still seemed impossible for people to quit smoking because for years of repetition they went to the store, bought a pack and smoked cigarettes. Their mind was infatuated with the memory of putting the cigarettes to their lips, inhaling, and then exhaling. The process of taking five minutes at several points throughout the day just to go through the motions seemed impossible to stop. They had to find something new to fit those time slots where they would have smoked just to keep their mind off of the act itself.

We are pattern seekers and a lot of us may have a pattern of eating ice cream on the weekend, picking up pastries for the family, having a doughnut or two at work with colleagues, dupping large doses of sugar into our coffee. Splenda is the new nicotine patch, unfortunately I personally believe it is far more damaging to your health (chlorocarbons) than sucrose, but whatever. The act of eating sugar, is in my opinion an addiction, but still one that can be changed by lifestyle.

GO PLAY SOME VOLLEYBALLL

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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The only thing I can contribute is my own experience when I did, indeed, go off sugar.

It began one evening when, extremely frustrated with myself and my lack of control over eating, I made a desperate move. I knew I had to change something. I won't bore you with the details of the basis for this decision, but I decided to give up sugar for six weeks and see what happened.

The first few days were pretty predictable: shaky. obsessed. cranky.

At the end of two weeks, I was no longer shaky, but I was amazed I hadn't sliced someone's throat. And I was no longer obsessed with sugar; I was obsessed with eating anything and everything I could find.

After a month, about 10 pounds heavier, things began to settle down. I enjoyed being off sugar. It didn't make my thinking clearer or produce any physical changes other than the weight I'd gained, but by that time I'd gotten used to the idea that I wasn't going to eat anything containing sugar, and I felt very free, because of all of the decisions I didn't have to make anymore. In my addicted state - especially if it gets really bad - my entire day can be structured around access to sugar. Chocolate is generally the form I seek. But in my sugar-free state* I no longer had to think about any of that. And I enjoyed it very much.

A few weeks later, I was amazed to find my behavior very close to that of what's been described of alcoholics. At the end of a period of abstention...oh, just half a piece of cake. And down the slippery slope I went.

I don't think I gained any particular insight from this, except that I can do it if I put my mind to it. But I tend to agree with the "everything in moderation" philosophy, and I've learned that other foods, when prepared well (in other words, not from a box) have an intensity and complexity of flavor that lends some of the same satisfaction I get from sugar. I have no desire to give up desserts for the rest of my life, and I don't know that I'll go off sugar again. It certainly isn't a goal.

So I continue through life, mildly addicted, and not particularly concerned about it. Unless, of course, I have an entire afternoon ahead of me and nothing sweet to eat.

*I did continue to eat all fruits, vegetables, carbohydrates, etc.

Edited by jgm (log)
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Alright, I think this is all very simple.  Everything comes down to lifestyle.  If you develop a lifestyle that limits your carbohydrate intake than everthing will return back to normal, even the chemical exchange in your brain.

Simple to say anyway huh.

To those arguing about fat, that is a difficult subject in itself.  I read a nutrition book some years ago (forgot the title) where the author proclaimed people having an addiction to fat rather than an addiction to sugar.  Her reasoning was that people are far more likely to select doughnuts, pies, pastries, chocolate, etc instead of a lollipop, popsicle, gummie bears, etc. 

So carbs are a better vehicle for sugar than a popsicle stick. We're still talking sugar. Didja know that there's a hormone secreted in the stomach that tells us when we are hungry. After we eat carbs that hormone makes us think we were hungrier than we were before we ate the carbs.

Dude, I'm not into gummy bears but I am (used to be) into candy, bagfuls of candy candy candy.

Sugar is an unnecessary attraction, the sooner we realize it the better.  But that doesn't mean when you go out to eat you have to refuse DESSERT!  Put down the doughnut so you can eat my chocolate mousse!

thank you.

:laugh:

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I get shaky when I eat it, my mouth waters ..I can not focus on anything else but what I am doing ....cake..cookie.. a chocolate bar ..Indian sweets are the worst for me and they are very sugary sugar!!!!

and am completely unable to stop myself from wanting more and more..once I take a bite .... ..I have never found an end to how much sugar I can consume ...before I will pass out in a sugar coma ....and when I give it up I am very grouchy and have a horrible three day headache

I would say I have some sort of chemical/brain/addiction issue with sugar!

of course I have to run my own double blind a few times a year just to make sure I still have issues...

and I do

HB, It is amazing how much effect it has on us. It's not illegal we can get it everywhere so it is easy to be in denial and pooh pooh the whole idea of addiction and it's ramifications but it's for real whether we realize and admit it or not.

Add in a few other health challenges and stack up a several decades of age on top of that and geez oh pete the elimination of sugar from the diet makes sucha big difference in the health. Wish I could do it.

The only thing I can contribute is my own experience when I did, indeed, go off sugar...

...A few weeks later, I was amazed to find my behavior very close to that of what's been described of alcoholics.  At the end of a period of abstention...oh, just half a piece of cake.  And down the slippery slope I went.

I don't think I gained any particular insight from this, except that I can do it if I put my mind to it.  But I tend to agree with the "everything in moderation" philosophy, and I've learned that other foods, when prepared well (in other words, not from a box) have an intensity and complexity of flavor that lends some of the same satisfaction I get from sugar.  I have no desire to give up desserts for the rest of my life, and I don't know that I'll go off sugar again.  It certainly isn't a goal.

jgm, more fabulous corroborating input. I agree with everything in moderation but how to maintain that escapes me.

So I continue through life, mildly addicted, and not particularly concerned about it.  Unless, of course, I have an entire afternoon ahead of me and nothing sweet to eat. 

:laugh::laugh:

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