The Art and Soul of Baking

[prasantrin]

Does anyone have this book, yet? David Lebovitz blogged about a peanut butter cookie with peanut caramel from the book, and now I think I need it. It is, however, about $20 more in Japan than it would be in the US, so if I'm going to spend the extra cash, I want to know it's really really good!

[JFLinLA]

Haven't gotten my hands on the book yet but I've taken 3 or 4 classes from Cindy over the years and like her very much.

[skipper10]

Does anyone have this book, yet?  David Lebovitz blogged about a peanut butter cookie with peanut caramel from the book, and now I think I need it.  It is, however, about $20 more in Japan than it would be in the US, so if I'm going to spend the extra cash, I want to know it's really really good!

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I have the book. I love the book. I love it as much as I love Dorie's" Baking..." The decibel level of WOWs is identical for the end product. I have not used "The Art & Soul..." for as long as I have been using the "Baking..," so this is not a definitive opinion, after I try a few more recipes I may come to a very different conclusion.

At first glance it seems that the main difference is in the font (Dorie's is larger,) page layouts and info presentation. Dorie's book seems to have more recipes for brownies, banana breads, etc, while "The Art & Soul..." has more information and tutorials on ingredients and equipment. I learned more about getting the best of my oven from "The Art..." than from all other baking books including "Bakewise".

Both books are good at offering advice on prep & storing, but "The Art & Soul..." in addition to the ingredients also lists equipment needed for each recipe and often gives "What The PROS Know" tips, which, not being a professional pastry chef, I find very helpful.

At this point I can't say which book I would keep if I were forced to choose only one, I am glad I have both.

Edited to add another significant to me difference:Cindy Mushet gives measurements in both volume (cups& tablespoons) and weight (ounces, not grams) while Dorie Greenspan gives weight mostly in cups & tablespoons.

Edited December 5, 2008 by skipper10 (log)

[prasantrin]

I have the book.  I love the book.  I love it as much as I love  Dorie's" Baking..."  The decibel level of WOWs is identical for the end product.  I have not used "The Art & Soul..." for as long as I have been using  the "Baking..," so this is not a definitive opinion, after I try a few more recipes I may come to a very different conclusion.

. . .

At this point I can't say which book I would keep if I were forced to choose only one, I am glad I have both.

Edited to add another significant to me difference:Cindy Mushet gives measurements in both volume (cups& tablespoons) and weight (ounces, not grams) while Dorie Greenspan gives weight mostly in cups & tablespoons.

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That's what I was thinking! That DG's Baking and CM's A&S would complement each other nicely. I've only seen a few of CM's recipes online, and they seem just as accessible as DG's recipes, so that even those who are not in the US can make them with relative ease.

I didn't realize there were measurements in both volume and weight. Bonus! I wonder why her publisher's allowed it when so many other publishers don't (because of "space restrictions").

[chezcherie]

I didn't realize there were measurements in both volume and weight. Bonus! I wonder why her publisher's allowed it when so many other publishers don't (because of "space restrictions").

it could be because it's a sur la table book, and they sell more baking scales if the weights are included?

[skipper10]

I have the book.  I love the book.  I love it as much as I love  Dorie's" Baking..."  The decibel level of WOWs is identical for the end product.  I have not used "The Art & Soul..." for as long as I have been using  the "Baking..," so this is not a definitive opinion, after I try a few more recipes I may come to a very different conclusion.

. . .

At this point I can't say which book I would keep if I were forced to choose only one, I am glad I have both.

Edited to add another significant to me difference:Cindy Mushet gives measurements in both volume (cups& tablespoons) and weight (ounces, not grams) while Dorie Greenspan gives weight mostly in cups & tablespoons.

←

That's what I was thinking! That DG's Baking and CM's A&S would complement each other nicely. I've only seen a few of CM's recipes online, and they seem just as accessible as DG's recipes, so that even those who are not in the US can make them with relative ease.

I didn't realize there were measurements in both volume and weight. Bonus! I wonder why her publisher's allowed it when so many other publishers don't (because of "space restrictions").

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I am not sure how much publisher has to say about that. Me thinks that adding weight measurements is a lot of tedious extra work for the author and more chances for serious typos and other mistakes. RLB, bless her soul, in addition to cup measurements also gives all measurements in both ounces and grams. Bet you anything her publisher is not complaining that The Cake Bible is alive and well after all those years in print.

[prasantrin]

I am not sure how much publisher has to say about that.  Me thinks that adding weight measurements is a lot of tedious extra work for the author and more chances for serious typos and other mistakes. 

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Way back when we first started talking about Baking: From My Home to Yours, Dorie Greenspan wrote (bolding was added by me):

As for metric measurements -- aarrrggh!  I adore using metric weights, but I don't think they're ever going to become the standard in America.  I had included metric weights in the first Pierre Herme book, Desserts by Pierre Herme, but they were axed in the final edit.  One reason for cutting them was space and another was their scarifying effect.  People thought the metric weights made the recipes look harder and more complicated than they were.  (What was hard and complicated was converting the recipes back to metric when the book was published in France!)

I was able to include metric weights in the second PH book, Chocolate Desserts by Pierre Herme, and in Paris Sweets, primarily because the recipes were originally French and in metric and there was some hope that the books would be published in France -- Chocolate was, Paris Sweets wasn't. 

In general, I think publishers are loathe to include metric in books that, like my new baking book, are meant for home bakers.  It's a pretty complex issue and I think Dan Lepard got it right in his post.

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I'm sure some Canadian and American cookbook authors (particularly those with little professional or international experience) prefer volume, but I think most would prefer to work with weights, and would rather use weights in cookbooks if they could.

[prasantrin]

skipper10 or JFLinLA--could either of you tell me Cindy Mushet's standard weight for 1 cup of flour? Dorie Greenspan gets 4.8oz/cup (136g), which is a bit higher than average. I usually assume 120g/cup.

I found a lemon bar recipe of hers online, but the measurements are volume only.

chezcherie--you could very well be right about the scale thing!

BTW, I was looking at the Sur La Table website, and the book is $29.95 right now as an introductory price (it will be selling for $40). That's even a little (less than $2) cheaper than at Amazon! Now if only I lived in the US...it's Y5600 (US$60) in Japan!

[skipper10]

skipper10 or JFLinLA--could either of you tell me Cindy Mushet's standard weight for 1 cup of flour?  Dorie Greenspan gets 4.8oz/cup (136g), which is a bit higher than average.  I usually assume 120g/cup. 

I found a lemon bar recipe of hers online, but the measurements are volume only. 

chezcherie--you could very well be right about the scale thing!

BTW, I was looking at the Sur La Table website, and the book is $29.95 right now as an introductory price (it will be selling for $40).  That's even a little (less than $2) cheaper than at Amazon!  Now if only I lived in the US...it's Y5600 (US$60) in Japan!

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In her Art & Soul Cindy Mushet discusses "measuring" p. 3-5, then, at the bottom of page 5 she says: "you can weigh ingredients for recipes outside this book" ... "by consulting the Volume and Weight Equivalents chart on pages 6-7. Just be sure to check introductory section of other baking books or magazines so you know how they are measuring"...etc. etc. etc.

(Page 6)

VOLUME AND WEIGHT EQUIVALENTS (rounded to the nearest 1/4 oz)

FLOUR:

Unbleached AP (dip & sweep)* 5 oz per cup

Unbleached AP (lightly spooned) 4 1/2 oz

Unbleached AP (sifted) 3 1/4oz

Cake (dip & sweep) 4 1/2

Cake (lightly spooned) 4

Cake (sifted)* 3 1/2

(note on page 7:)

" *indicates the method of measuring and its corresponding weight for ingredients used in this book when alternative measurements are also given. For example, though flour may be measured several ways, the * next to the dip-and-sweep method indicates that this is the standard for the recipes in this book."

I hope this helps. If you tell me which bar recipe you are looking at, I will be happy to check it out for you.

PS: Living overseas has lots of joys and advantages, alas, buying cookbooks cheaply is not one of them. Had you been in the States you could have gotten The Art & Soul for $12.99 and Bakewise for $9.99, shipping included.

I have to start dinner now, I will respond to your previous email after that. I loved that other website you brought up in your yesterday's post, thank you for introducing me to it.

[prasantrin]

5oz! Since it says "rounded to the nearest 1/4oz" I might use the 4.8oz that Dorie Greenspan uses. She uses the same method (dip and sweep), so I'm guessing they say 5oz just to make things easier.

I'm planning on making the classic lemon bars. The ingredients are:

Short crust dough:

1 1/4 cups unbleached flour all-purpose flour

1/4 cup sugar

1/4 teaspoon salt

1 stick cold, unsalted butter, cut into pieces

2 large egg yolks

2 teaspoons pure vanilla extract

1 to 3 teaspoons water

Filling:

4 large eggs

2 cups granulated sugar

5 tablespoons unbleached all-purpose flour

2/3 cup lemon juice

I can't remember which website I got that from. Looking it over again, I'm a bit surprised she uses the measurement "stick of butter", or was that the measurement added by whoever posted it?

Where'd you get the books so cheaply? Maybe they ship to Japan!

Edited December 6, 2008 by prasantrin (log)

[skipper10]

5oz!  Since it says "rounded to the nearest 1/4oz" I might use the 4.8oz that Dorie Greenspan uses.  She uses the same method (dip and sweep), so I'm guessing they say 5oz just to make things easier.

I'm planning on making the classic lemon bars.  The ingredients are:

Short crust dough:

1 1/4 cups unbleached flour all-purpose flour

1/4 cup sugar

1/4 teaspoon salt

1 stick cold, unsalted butter, cut into pieces

2 large egg yolks

2 teaspoons pure vanilla extract

1 to 3 teaspoons water

Filling:

4 large eggs

2 cups granulated sugar

5 tablespoons unbleached all-purpose flour

2/3 cup lemon juice

I can't remember which website I got that from. Looking it over again, I'm a bit surprised she uses the measurement "stick of butter", or was that the measurement added by whoever posted it?

Where'd you get the books so cheaply? Maybe they ship to Japan!

←

I hope this helps with measurements, no grams are given:

(If I am violating the board rules, please, let me know too, I am not sure...)

Vanilla shortcrust Dough:

unbleached AP flour 6 1/4 oz

sugar 1 3/4 oz

for the filling"

14 oz granulated sugar

1 1/3 oz unbleached AP flour

5 2/3oz freshly squeezed lemon juice

confectioner's sugar for dusting, optional

As to my formerly favorite book seller, ALL books, (shipping included) used to be $9.99. You compiled your list and they sent you one book a month, unless you asked for more, then they sent you as many as you wanted until you bought 10 books a month. Recently this book club was overtaken by another entity that raised the price of books to $12.99 and all special books are on "buy now" status, in other words, if you don't buy them now, they are gone. I am going to give them up unless they change their ways.

[pastrygirl]

BTW, I was looking at the Sur La Table website, and the book is $29.95 right now as an introductory price (it will be selling for $40).  That's even a little (less than $2) cheaper than at Amazon!  Now if only I lived in the US...it's Y5600 (US$60) in Japan!

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I've had Amazon ship from the US to Bhutan for only $5 per book, so most of them still end up a little bit less than cover price...of course that is the cheap shipping, which takes 4, or 6, or sometimes more weeks (still waiting for Kafeehouse which I ordered end of Sept, but maybe the post office is holding it for ransom without my knowledge). But they should be able to find Japan, so maybe it would be faster for you!

[prasantrin]

I've had Amazon ship from the US to Bhutan for only $5 per book, so most of them still end up a little bit less than cover price...of course that is the cheap shipping, which takes 4, or 6, or sometimes more weeks (still waiting for Kafeehouse which I ordered end of Sept, but maybe the post office is holding it for ransom without my knowledge).  But they should be able to find Japan, so maybe it would be faster for you!

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Good idea! I'd have to pay $5/order plue $4/book, but it would still be cheaper than buying it in Japan. Plus I'd have my Art & Soul!

I'll have to wait until January, though, just in case it arrives while I'm on holidays. I really want this book!

[prasantrin]

I hope this helps with measurements, no grams are given:

(If I am violating the board rules, please, let me know too, I am not sure...)

Vanilla shortcrust Dough:

unbleached AP flour 6  1/4 oz

sugar 1 3/4 oz

for the filling"

14 oz granulated sugar

1 1/3 oz unbleached AP flour

5 2/3oz freshly squeezed lemon juice

confectioner's sugar for dusting, optional

←

Thanks! I'm going to need some lemons, but this will be my next next project!

[skipper10]

I hope this helps with measurements, no grams are given:

(If I am violating the board rules, please, let me know too, I am not sure...)

Vanilla shortcrust Dough:

unbleached AP flour 6  1/4 oz

sugar 1 3/4 oz

for the filling"

14 oz granulated sugar

1 1/3 oz unbleached AP flour

5 2/3oz freshly squeezed lemon juice

confectioner's sugar for dusting, optional

←

Thanks! I'm going to need some lemons, but this will be my next next project!

←

sorry, forgot to add:butter 1 stick, 4 oz.

[skipper10]

I am not sure how much publisher has to say about that.   Me thinks that adding weight measurements is a lot of tedious extra work for the author and more chances for serious typos and other mistakes. 

←

Way back when we first started talking about Baking: From My Home to Yours, Dorie Greenspan wrote (bolding was added by me):

As for metric measurements -- aarrrggh!  I adore using metric weights, but I don't think they're ever going to become the standard in America.  I had included metric weights in the first Pierre Herme book, Desserts by Pierre Herme, but they were axed in the final edit.  One reason for cutting them was space and another was their scarifying effect.  People thought the metric weights made the recipes look harder and more complicated than they were.  (What was hard and complicated was converting the recipes back to metric when the book was published in France!)

I was able to include metric weights in the second PH book, Chocolate Desserts by Pierre Herme, and in Paris Sweets, primarily because the recipes were originally French and in metric and there was some hope that the books would be published in France -- Chocolate was, Paris Sweets wasn't. 

In general, I think publishers are loathe to include metric in books that, like my new baking book, are meant for home bakers.  It's a pretty complex issue and I think Dan Lepard got it right in his post.

←

I'm sure some Canadian and American cookbook authors (particularly those with little professional or international experience) prefer volume, but I think most would prefer to work with weights, and would rather use weights in cookbooks if they could.

←

Thank you for the quote from Dorie. Very interesting. I took a class from her once. She came across as a very nice, very meticulous and very conscientious person. I can only imagine what she went through with all those conversions.

As to the publishers, they need to get with it. Their reluctance to publish Harry Potter books under a woman's name says it all. Having said that I should also point out that some of them started seeing the light.

I have just bought Flo Braker's "Baking for All Occasions" which gives measurements in volume, ounces and grams. "Tartine," a favorite book since 2006 also gives measurements in volume, ounces and grams, while Claire Clark's "Indulge" published in 2007 gives only grams and ounces.

If one day Dorie's publisher wakes up, smells the coffee and decides to reissue "...From My Home..." with metric measurements I would immediately buy the book.

[prasantrin]

I borrowed the book from the library. I love it. I'm buying it before I leave even though I won't be able to take it back to Japan with me (I could, but it's heavy and I'll be moving back to Canada early next year anyway).

It's so clearly written, and I love that she provides volume and weight equivalents for a whole slew of ingredients (skipper10 mentioned it above).

Interestingly, many of the recipes in the book are posted on various blogs--Cindy Mushet's blog on Sur la Table and the publisher's website, too. Not all provide complete recipes, but the only parts missing are the "What the pros know" and "Getting Ahead" portions which are very useful, but not vital to understanding the recipes.

(edited bad editing)

Edited August 12, 2009 by prasantrin (log)