Smokin' diary

[Huevos del Toro]

HdT, that's a very nice-looking unit. Right now I am very much into the ritual--call it the Church of Q, but I can see a time when I need a set it-forget it solution. Where did you get it? How much?

BTW, Polder probes rule. Have you seen this one?

Dave;

I certainly understand the Church of Q. I don't get nearly the sense of accomplishment from the electric smoker but that's tempered somewhat by the consistancy of product it produces. I bought it a few years ago from Cookshack. Although it's not terribly big I had to have someone help me load and unload it from my truck. Its' HEAVY! I think I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $350-$375 but it's up to $425 now. Shipping is "free" so there aren't any hidden surprises.

Yes, I've looked at the Polder remote. I'm a sucker for gadgets but this looks like it may actually be useful. I bought 4 regular Polder's when I found them on closeout for about $6 each. I just couldn't pass that up and have given 2 as gifts. I'm keeping the other two.

[col klink]

Those Polder remotes are a Godsend. I don't know what I'd do without mine! And yes, I too have given them as gifts.

[gknl]

Have you ever been to the Big Green Egg store?  Not that I'll shell out a grand for a grill, but they "sound" pretty cool.  They seem similar to a tandoor oven, but maybe that's just the shape.

http://www.biggreenegg.com/

I like mine very much although I use the large one just for slow-cooking; for grilling I get much better results on the small Egg. (I'm in the minority among Eggers here - most of them rave about steaks etc.) Pizza is the exception; it comes out tasting like the best brick-oven examples. A friend uses his to cook nan.

Yes, they're expensive (more so now than when I bought mine 5 years ago) but durable, fuel-efficient and easy to control. The heavy ceramic retains heat well, which makes this cooker less sensitive to outdoor temps than metal cookers. It also delivers a great range of cooking temps, from 200 to 1000. The firebox is prone to cracking - mine is actually in two pieces - but that hasn't affected its cooking performance.

People have found them for sale on eBay, by the way.

Don't take this personally, but I'm gonna pretend I never saw this! Envy is such an ugly emotion. Ebay, is just too tempting.

[Dave the Cook]

I'm gonna pretend I never saw this!

Good luck.

[gknl]

I have to say that throughout my life I've made many purchases that I've liked and loved, but none of them can compare to how much joy not only I've  received but also how many people I've blessed with it. It's just amazing to watch people taste good smoked meat for the first time and see their eyes light up and say "how did you do this?"

Thanks for the discussion of the Chargrill and Weber! Am I wrong in thinking that if I liked what I did on the Weber, I'd be able to do it better and easier on a Chargrill? What I'm really doing is fishing for excuses not to get a new one, but I know deep down inside, it's inevitable. I just don't want to make an impulse purchase I'll regret later.

I'm just glad I held out in joining my friends' exodus to gas grills! They love them, but there was just something unaesthetic about them that kept me from getting one.

Chargrill Smokin' Pro, free shipping. . . . . . .

[gknl]

I'm gonna pretend I never saw this!

Good luck.

Story of my life!

[CathyL]

Don't take this personally, but I'm gonna pretend I never saw this!  Envy is such an ugly emotion.  Ebay, is just too tempting. 

Grant, if it helps I'll PM you a list of everything that's wrong with it.

The biggest drawback is the size of the grill...

There's a competing ceramic product called Primo Grill; it's a bit less pricey, and people seem pleased with it. They make an oval one with considerably more capacity than a large Egg.

[Dave the Cook]

What I'm really doing is fishing for excuses not to get a new one, but I know deep down inside, it's inevitable.  I just don't want to make an impulse purchase I'll regret later.  

I'm just glad I held out in joining my friends' exodus to gas grills!  They love them, but there was just something unaesthetic about them that kept me from getting one.  

Chargrill Smokin' Pro, free shipping. . . . . . .  

Grant:

I understand your dilemna. Look at it this way (a la Alice Trillin): your Webers are old--they need to be replaced. You're serious about barbecue, so it's not unreasonable that you should replace your old Webers with a new one. You could buy a Big Green Egg. Out of parsimony or caution, you decide not to. But look!-- a Char-Griller Pro Smoker is $200 (including shipping)! You can easily afford this, since you've got that money you didn't spend on the BGE. Simple, no?

Gas grills are not just unaesthethic (although I admit to a pang of envy seeing those gas giants Bobby Flay has on his old shows), they are not barbecues. Your instincts are straight and true. Just because you're cooking outside doesn't mean you're barbecuing. As we say down South, "you can put your kittens in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits."

[gknl]

I'm going to have to try the "kittens in the oven" line on my girlfriend, she's from Alabama.

Thanks for the encouragement on the Chargrill. Compared to the BGE, it is a bargin! And with all the money left over, I could, I mean I'll HAVE to buy a bunch of new toys too, like those probe thermometers. I think I'll nose around a couple of stores just to see some rigs in the flesh, so to speak. And try not to look at Ebay. Luckily, we can grill almost all year here. Can they be used in the rain or does that make them break down faster? Assuming they're dried off afterwards and stuff.

Egullet's wiped all thoughts of gas grills from my mind. I've always been an old school traditional kinda guy anyway.

[gknl]

Grant, if it helps I'll PM you a list of everything that's wrong with it. 

The biggest drawback is the size of the grill...

There's a competing ceramic product called Primo Grill; it's a bit less pricey, and people seem pleased with it.  They make an oval one with considerably more capacity than a large Egg.

Thanks, but I'm afraid if I bought one, I wouldn't be able to buy meat for six months.

I looked at the Primo's, I couldn't tell much difference between them and the BGE. They don't have dealers in California though (whew) and the $125 extra shipping charge is a killer. Pushes the price to $475 for the cheapie factory second internet sale.

$275 buys a lot of meat (the difference in price between the Primo and Chargrill).

http://www.primogrill.com/pages/special.htm

[col klink]

gknl, what do you really want to get out of your grill? Dave needed the Chargriller because of it's larger capacity and its flexibility. I bought mine because I wanted to smoke meat. It sounds like you're looking towards the latter in which case I do recommend the Chargriller Pro but with a few caveats.

Something I haven't mentioned is the firewood. I live in Seattle and it's not that easy finding inexpensive hardwood. When I first bought my smoker I purchased a half-cord of maple, which I really liked for many reasons, and it cost almost $200. That's really expensive, but it was aged at least 6 months, it was already cut and ready to burn and it was delivered to my doorstep. That wood also lasted me over a year of heavy use. I highly suggest going to outlying areas and looking for wood. Also, like I mentioned above, you will need a new fire grate pretty quickly.

For the last two years I've pretty much thrown all of my culinary focus at my smoker and I've had some stellar results, just check out the potlucks on the PacNW board and you'll see other people's opinions on my smokery.

Now, If you don't want the smoker to be an impulse buy (whatever you do, don't throw out the weber, they come in handy!), you'll go through some trial and error at first, figuring out how to best work it and all but it will take dedication. If you like the idea of hanging around your smoker and checking it at least every 2 to 6 times an hour for up to several hours, then by all means get one. Since you'll probably need 30 to 45 minutes to get the fire started and the smoker warm, you can see that smoking meat is a long process and there will be a number of runs out to the smoker and it's a pretty high maintenance cooking method. But damn, the results are worth it. I don't think anything of spending an entire Saturday smoking up a brisket or a hog leg (and drinking too). Also, you'll smell like smoke, or as I call it, bbq, permeating everything you wear. By the way, if you wear a baseball hat while smoking, make sure to wear it backwards otherwise smoke with build up under the brim and make you cry like a baby, something I learned pretty quickly.

Small poultry takes an hour to an hour and a half, turkeys take about 2 1/2 to 3 hours. Fish take 45 minutes to an hour and half (if you're really good at keeping the fire really low but still alive) and fresh sausages take only half an hour. However, the bigger items like brisket can take 4 hours to 15 hours depending on size, likewise pork roasts. If you start off with a medium range item that's easy like a pork ass, you'll get a good feel of what you can get and then you'll get really excited about everything else. A cool thing to do on your first smoking is to get some fresh sausages to throw on, they're a great appetizer and will get you even more excited about the main course! I think Dave's already hooked with his brisket.

Dave, have you called Chargriller yet?

[gknl]

gknl, what do you really want to get out of your grill? Dave needed the Chargriller because of it's larger capacity and its flexibility. I bought mine because I wanted to smoke meat. It sounds like you're looking towards the latter in which case I do recommend the Chargriller Pro but with a few caveats.

I like eating grilled food, but using the Webers is unwieldly because they're so old and certain parts don't work so well anymore. They're also the models where the grill itself isn't adjustable, it's a fixed height over the coals. So I'm looking for something easier to use, especially for large quantities. I've been drooling over the smoked meat threads which is why I decided to give smoking the pork tenderloins a shot (with no expectation that it would actually work), so now I want one that will do both.

I like the layout and capacity of my friend's shiny stainless steel gas grill, but I don't like the gas or the pricetag or now the lack of true smoking capability. I "think" what I want is the charcoal/wood equivilent which something like the Chargrill seems to provide. And looking around a bit, I can see why you called the Chargrill a "starter smoker." I don't think I can justify spending a lot of money on one (yet! ) until I know I'll use it enough and use it well enough.

I wouldn't throw the Webers out until they become completely unusable. There is a three-grill party in my future, I can taste it.

I'm capable of being conscientious and paying attention to details, I'm just lazy a lot of the time and also curious about "just winging it" to see what happens. But if the results are good enough, I have no problem putting serious time and effort into doing something the right way.

I appreciate all the advice and encouragement! Thank you all, especially Dave for letting me hijack his thread.

[gknl]

The spate of recent smoking meat threads made me remember this one. I haven't bought a new grill/smoker yet, but am going to soon. I'm still leaning towards the Chargriller Smokin' Pro with side fire box ( http://www.chargriller.com/smokinpro.html ) mentioned above.

How does it compare the Weber Bullet and the Brinkman mentioned in some of the other threads?

Also, I noticed on the order form there were a lot of accessories and replacement parts. Which are worth getting? I'd rather just buy everything at once and be done with it. The cover I'm getting for sure.

Accessories

Large Grill Cover (#4848) for Char-Griller w/ Side Fire Box ____ $24.00

Deluxe Rotisserie Kit (#5022) ____ $35.00 _________

Side Fire Box (#2424) ____ $59.00 _________

Side Shelf (#3333) ____ $19.00 _________

Warming Rack (#1010) ____ $19.00 _________

Charcoal Rail (#2020) ____ $9.00 pr. _________

Replacement Parts

Cast Iron Cooking Grates w/ Lifter (#9090) ____

$29.00 _________

Side Fire Box Fire Grate / Ash Pan ____ $16.00 _________

Grate Lifter ____ $8.00 _________

Heat Guage ____ $8.00 _________

Fire Grate / Ash Pan ____ $24.00 _________

Owners' Manual ____ $5.00 _________

Side Fire Box Cook Grate ____ $15.00 _________

As always, thanks for your advice and encouragement!

ediot: I hope that fixed the link

Edited March 4, 2003 by gknl (log)

[Stone]

After two uses, I'm very happy with my Weber Bullet. I really like the fact that it's compact and upright. Yesterday I fit a 7.5 lb pork shoulder on the top grill (with some room to spare) and about 8 pounds of ribs and trimmings on the lower grill. I doubt I will need more meat than that.

Notwithstanding my thermometer issues, the heat was pretty easy to maintain. For the first 4-5 hours, it stayed between 220 and 250. I only had trouble when I opened everything up to add the ribs to the lower rack.

Adding charcoal is a bit of a pain -- the easiest way to do it is to lift the entire grill unit off the charcoal bin. It's not that heavy -- you just have to be carefull not to spill the water/fat mixture. (By the way, after that cools down, throw it in a blender with some ice cubes and lemon juice for a great dessert drink.)

[gknl]

I went back and looked at your first thread to see what the bullet looks like, but all the photos are temporarily unavailable.

I take it the Bullet's a smoker only, right? And may I ask where you purchased it and for how much?

The ease of the Chargriller's side box is a huge attraction to me as is the versatility. But if the Bullet is cheaper and I still have the two regular Webers. . . .

Decisions, decisions. . . . .

[IrishCream]

I just have a no frills Brinkman water smoker and it works great. My only complaint is the lack of a built-in thermometer. But I do have a question for the smoking pros. When I smoke a whole turkey, the skin ends up pitch black and inedible. But when I have purchased smoked turkeys the skin is NOT black. How do they manage that or what am I doing wrong?

[col klink]

The bullet is strictly a smoker but the smokin' pro can be used as both though I've never used my smokin' pro to grill.

As you can see, the smokin' pro can hold a lot of meat as well:

That's three racks of back ribs, a 3.5lb leg of lamb, 4lbs of short ribs and a 4 or 5 lb brisket.

I've smoked with both the bullet and of course my smokin' pro and I love the ease of use of the bullet but I prefer the taste of the smokin' pro. When you use real wood there's a noticable improvement, something you just can't get with coals and chips. This does come at a HUGE increase in work and attention though.

As for the turkey Irish, I've smoked a whole bunch of 'em. Brine them first, smoke at 225 for 2 to 3 hours until the temp of the breast is 160F to 165F. It sounds like your turkies are also a little too close to the fire, get them as far away as possible and rotate every 15 to 20 minutes.

edit: hours, not hourse. Awbrig, you edited out my u!

Edited March 4, 2003 by col klink (log)

[awbrig]

Brine them first, smoke at 225 for 2 to 3 horse until the temp of the breast is 160F to 165F

Col, where do you get horse?

[Stone]

I went back and looked at your first thread to see what the bullet looks like, but all the photos are temporarily unavailable.     

My fault. I screwed it up. But here's a shot of the bullet:

You can see the three sections above -- the top lid, which fits over the top rack. The middle, which holds the water pan with the center rack just above it (that's where I put the ribs, standing on end in a rib rack), and the lower section, with the charcoal bin. The top grill fits right at the top of the middle section, the dome of the lid is high enough that the 7.5 lb shoulder fit with no problem. The whole thing is about 4 feet high.

Here's the charcoal bin, with the top two sections removed. They're pretty light, so it's easy to pull them off during smoking to add more charcoal if needed. (You don't lose much heat because the top stays on.) Wood chunks can be added through the little metal door.

This is looking into the middle section with the top grill rack removed. You can see the lower grill and the dirty water pan:

I got mine at Action Rental, a big rental place at 16th and South Ven Ess. They're a full Weber dealer -- I got the rib rack and the Weber chimney (it's bigger than standard) there, as well as a scraper and two bags of wood chunks. Each item was probably $2 more than Amazon, but instant gratification is worth something.

Klink, how'd you get Ben Affleck to model for your meat?

Edited March 4, 2003 by Stone (log)

[awbrig]

Klink, how'd you get Ben Affleck to model for your meat?

Not sure why this quote disturbs me so...

[col klink]

Klink, how'd you get Ben Affleck to model for your meat?

Oh you!

[gknl]

I've smoked with both the bullet and of course my smokin' pro and I love the ease of use of the bullet but I prefer the taste of the smokin' pro. When you use real wood there's a noticable improvement, something you just can't get with coals and chips. This does come at a HUGE increase in work and attention though.

The bullet's easier to use than the smokin' pro? I would have thought having the firebox on the side would be easier than having to lift 2/3 of the unit off the base. . . . . Maybe I'll just flip a coin.

[Stone]

Lifting the top off is pretty easy. Although I would have thought the same about sticking some more wood in the fire box. The big difference to me (having only used the bullet), is size. The bullet doesn't take up much space, but then again, it doesn't fit as much food. The fire box will also take larger wood chunks -- this may require more attention to keep the wood burning? I'm guessing. If I smoke again in the near future, I'll let you know. You can bring the budweiser.

Edited March 4, 2003 by Stone (log)

[gknl]

Lifting the top off is pretty easy.  Although I would have thought the same about sticking some more wood in the fire box.  The big difference to me (having only used the bullet), is size.  The bullet doesn't take up much space, but then again, it doesn't fit as much food.  The fire box will also take larger wood chunks -- this may require more attention to keep the wood burning?  I'm guessing.  If I smoke again in the near future, I'll let you know.  You can bring the budweiser.

You got it, thanks!

Bud though?

[col klink]

The bullet's easier to use than the smokin' pro?

The bullet, despite it's awkwardness, doesn't need as much attention and therefore is easier to use. This plays a far greater roll when you're smoking a hog leg for 16 hours or a whole shoulder for 18 hours.

With the smokin' pro and firewood, yes it's true, the side fire box is easier to access and you can adjust for greater air flows than the bullet. But unless you're constantly in front of it (of course with a drink, whiskey for me) you have to check it every 10 to 20 minutes. The smokin' pro also has a tendency to overheat easily if you throw a new log on. There are FAR more variables you have to deal with versus the bullet and that's what makes it more work than the bullet.

But the smokin' pro is more along the lines of "purist" smoking since it uses a fire made from real firewood and not briquettes. That's not to say you can't get a good product out of a bullet, but if you want the last 10 to 20%, you need to go with a real wood fire. The smokin' pro is the real deal. All of the best 'que joints use a real fire to smoke their meat and the smokin' pro can do that for you. Granted, a master with a bullet can beat a novice with a smokin' pro but you can utimately get a better product out of the smokin' pro.

But this brings up another concern. What do you live in? Do you have a house where you can (ideally) shelter your smoker and its firewood? With the smokin' pro you have to worry about firewood supply and storage. Do you have a yard in which to smoke and neighbors who don't mind? With the bullet you can go to the damn grocery store to pick up briquettes and chips. When I first bought my smoker it cost me nearly $200 for a half cord of split and dried maple. Luckily I now have a friend that has a couple of felled maples on his property and lets me have at them for free but there's still a lot of work involved.

The smokin' pro also needs more maintenance. You have to spray the fire box with veggie oil after every use so it doesn't rust or break down or get a heavy duty bbq paint, i.e. no enamel. Although there are replacements for the fire grate, they're useless since they only last for about 15 to 20 fires. Luckily my buddy loves to weld and made me a replacement grate out of rebar. The rebar is spaced about an inch apart and hasn't blinked an eye despite some really hot fires. Also, you'll want to look into getting some split fire bricks, an inch and a quarter thick to line the sides of the firebox as they act as a temp buffer for the fire making it easier to revive a dying fire and give you a cleaner burn to the end.

Before I bought my smoker I was lucky in that my buddy already had a bullet. I thought damn, that's some really good meat coming out of there. If that's so good, I bet a real wood fire would be even better! I was right and I was able to tell the difference the first time I lit it up (be careful though, you have to let it go w/o meat for 3 hours before you put meat on to burn off the coating they apply before shipping). Personally I love the challenge of figuring out how to work with different woods and how they each affect different meats, it's a big puzzle that I just revel in figuring out. It takes a lot of effort to figure it all out (I haven't yet) and I wouldn't have it any other way.