Babbo (First 6 Years)

[tommy]

I've been to Blue Hill only once, and found the service as good as or better than any I've received in any fine dining etablishment (although sadly I wasn't smitten by the style of the food). 

i thought the service at blue hill was very amateurish, especially the wine service. babbo, in my experience, excels in their wine service, especially considering the price point. i'm actually surprised that you don't agree!

[tanabutler]

I found a restaurant named Babbo's in Pennsylvania that has better service than food. It must be a karma thing.

It's actually in Palo Alto, California. Why they review it in a Pennsylvania newspaper is beyond me.

[tommy]

I found a restaurant named Babbo's in Pennsylvania that has better service than food. It must be a karma thing.

It's actually in Palo Alto, California. Why they review it in a Pennsylvania newspaper is beyond me.

on a related note, i love when people refer to NYC's "Babbo" as "Babbo's". why do people so often when to add the possessive "s" to restaurant and bar names? i suppose that's another thread.

Edited August 17, 2003 by tommy (log)

[mrbigjas]

on a related note, i love when people refer to NYC's "Babbo" as "Babbo's".  why do people so often when to add the possessive "s" to restaurant and bar names? i suppose that's another thread. 

I do it all the time, mainly because I know some people who get really upset about it and I like to piss them off.

[bloviatrix]

on a related note, i love when people refer to NYC's "Babbo" as "Babbo's".  why do people so often when to add the possessive "s" to restaurant and bar names?......

For the same reason that they buy books at Barnes and Nobles.

[KNorthrup]

Nordstrom.

[mikec]

My experiences at Babbo have been universally negative. From weird service quirks to bad food. On the otherhand, Lupa is outstanding and 1/3 the price.

As a table of four, we each ordered an appetizer and an entree. We also ordered a pasta dish to be split four ways and served in between the app and entree. The staff would only split the pasta dish three ways as that was the policy. HUH?

The BS about priming the glasses to get rid of off odors. It may be a tradition or whatever, but shouldn't a high end restaurant have clean stemware? While I understand that they only use a tiny bit of wine to prime the glasses, it's still MY $100 bottle of wine. I'd actually like to DRINK my wine, not have the staff use it to clean the glasses.

The premium wine pairings with the pasta tasting menu at $90/per person...please don't serve me a glass of wine that comes from a bottle that retails for $12.50.

My notes on Babbo were posted in another thread started by Steve a while back. Moral of the story, for a very expensive restaurant, it is incredibly disappointing.

[macrosan]

My experiences at Babbo have been universally negative.  From weird service quirks to bad food.  On  the otherhand, Lupa is outstanding and 1/3 the price.

I've been to Babbo I think six times, and Lupa twice. There is no way that Lupa is 1/3 the price for an equivalent meal. More like 2/3 I think. I found Lupa to be acceptable but no more on both the food and the service front (I went once for lunch and once for dinner). I would describe Lupa as a good place to go for a quick, casula meal, and Babbo as more of a destination restaurant.

I do agree that some of the quirky service things they do at Babbo are pretentious, and probably designed to generate an artificial USP or else to intimidate the customers I've never had a tasting menu at Babbo, but there have been some adverse comments about the wine pairings.

I will keep a watching brief on Babbo. I would hate to lose it as one of my favorite restaurants in New York, but it's for them to prove, and keep proving, that I should keep them there

[Citryphus]

mikec Posted on Aug 21 2003, 07:13 AM

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The BS about priming the glasses to get rid of off odors. It may be a tradition or whatever, but shouldn't a high end restaurant have clean stemware?

If you go to one of the finer restaurants in Rome or Florence they all do the wine rinsing bit. Lighten up man, it's not that big of a deal.

[Bux]

All things are pretentious to the uninitiated. It's probably pretentious to assume one can tell what's pretentious if you're not the person doing it. Foreign customs are the most pretentious of course.

I fully understand the problem people have with using their wine to clean the glasses. I hate it when the orchestra tunes up on my time. I mean after all shouldn't they come to the concert hall prepared to play?

If the truth be told, I find the whole tasting ritual a bit obnoxious. Shouldn't a fine restaurant assure the diner that he won't have to taste off-tastes at any time during the eveing. It would be easy enough for the sommelier to taste the wine first and reject it for the diner if it's in less than perfect condition. I've seen a situation where the host tasted and approved a wine. After the entire table was served, the sommelier snuck a sip on the way to his station and came running back to recover all the glasses because he thought the wine was off. Cool, except for the embarrassment of the poor host. (It was some years ago at a venerable three star restaurant in France.) That's never happened to me, although a waiter has signaled me that he thought the cork had a off-smell when he opened a bottle and my wife has rejected a wine that I approved, but there were extenuating circumstances. The wine actually began to taste stranger after it was poured. The sommelier was unclear what was wrong. It certainly wasn't corky, but it wasn't right either. He came back later to tell us that whatever was wrong with it, was quickly getting worse.

I find it pretentious for Babbo to rinse the glasses with my wine, but that's only because it's a three star restaurant and it's pretentious for a three star restaurant to assume they can offer better service than a four star restaurant. -- That's a joke, for those who are humor challenged or find sarcasm online to be pretentious. I don't have a strong opinion on the subject of doing this other than to note that it's rough going against local customs.

[macrosan]

All things are pretentious to the uninitiated.

No they're not

[mikec]

My experiences at Babbo have been universally negative.  From weird service quirks to bad food.  On  the otherhand, Lupa is outstanding and 1/3 the price.

I've been to Babbo I think six times, and Lupa twice. There is no way that Lupa is 1/3 the price for an equivalent meal. More like 2/3 I think. I found Lupa to be acceptable but no more on both the food and the service front (I went once for lunch and once for dinner). I would describe Lupa as a good place to go for a quick, casula meal, and Babbo as more of a destination restaurant.

I do agree that some of the quirky service things they do at Babbo are pretentious, and probably designed to generate an artificial USP or else to intimidate the customers I've never had a tasting menu at Babbo, but there have been some adverse comments about the wine pairings.

I will keep a watching brief on Babbo. I would hate to lose it as one of my favorite restaurants in New York, but it's for them to prove, and keep proving, that I should keep them there

Macrosan,

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the price difference between Babbo and Lupa. I've been to Babbo three times and Lupa about a dozen times. The average price for two at Lupa is about $100-120. The average price for two at Babbo is about $300 although my last meal there with the pasta tasting menu and wine pairings was more.

Citryphus,

I've eaten in several places in Italy that prime the glasses. I think it's silly there too. To me, it's not unreasonable to assume that a restaurant in Babbo's price range should not feel the need to rinse glasses with expensive wine. The glasses should be clean and free of odors in the first place. Plus, it's my wine. Maybe they should wipe some bolognese sauce around my plate to insure that the plate doesn't hold any off odors.

I've given Babbo three chances. I never had what I would call a satisfying experience. Other people's mileage may vary.

[Fat Guy]

I think it's mathematically just plain silly to say Lupa costs 1/3 as much as Babbo. Maybe you've spent three times as much at Babbo, but that's because of what you've ordered -- and most likely the burden has been borne mostly by wine, equivalent quality bottles of which are priced evenly at both restaurants. I don't think there's much to debate here. These are the menus:

http://www.luparestaurant.com/menu.html

http://babbonyc.com/menu2.html

You can find the wine lists on those sites as well.

[Citryphus]

I've eaten in several places in Italy that prime the glasses.  I think it's silly there too.  To me, it's not unreasonable to assume that a restaurant in Babbo's price range should not feel the need to rinse glasses with expensive wine.  The glasses should be clean and free of odors in the first place.  Plus, it's my wine.  Maybe they should wipe some bolognese sauce around my plate to insure that the plate doesn't hold any off odors.

With all due respect Mike, you're entitled to think the wine rinsing thing is silly, just as other people can bitch about the banquet seating, or Pink Floyd. But it's so minute it casts doubt on the rest of your opinions. Did the harmless Italian wine ritual really ruin your meal? From your post it's hard to imagine you weren't being sarcastic.

If you are being serious about YOUR expensive wine, etc. I think Babbo can offer you the unique opportunity to play the Ugly American without having to travel.

[Rachel Perlow]

I think it's mathematically just plain silly to say Lupa costs 1/3 as much as Babbo. Maybe you've spent three times as much at Babbo, but that's because of what you've ordered -- and most likely the burden has been borne mostly by wine, equivalent quality bottles of which are priced evenly at both restaurants. I don't think there's much to debate here. These are the menus:

http://www.luparestaurant.com/menu.html

http://babbonyc.com/menu2.html

You can find the wine lists on those sites as well.

I just reviewed both menus. Now, I haven't been to Lupa, so I don't know how the portions compare, but I've calculated the average cost of primi and secondi courses at the two restaurants, the contorni are all the same price at each. I've left off the appetizers because they seem to follow completely different ordering structures at the two locations. So a meal consisting of contorni, primi and secondi, not taking wine or tasting menus into account, would cost approximately 40% more at Babbo. So macrosan is closer to the number with 2/3, but perhaps mikec meant to say that Lupa costs 1/3 less than Babbo?

Dinner at Lupa: Contorni $5.00, Primis 12.75, Secondis 14.86 = $32.61

Dinner at Babbo: Contorni $7.00, Primis 18.86, Secondi 28.13 = $53.99

Now, regarding the wine. That is much harder to compare and averages just don't count as much. But, if you examine the wine lists available on each restaurants websites, it is clear that Lupa's wines are less expensive. There are many more choices available for under $30, and they don't have nearly so many as Babbo of wines over $100. Of course, there are so many other factors to consider when it comes to wine, but since cost is the issue of this post, there it is.

[SobaAddict70]

The portions at Lupa seem to be slightly larger.

But I could be wrong...

Soba

[Beachfan]

I've been to Babbo 6 times, very good to great meals each time. Went twice last week. There grilled octopus is the best anywhere. The sommellier always finds me interesting wines for under $50.

I've been to Lupa 3 times. Also very good to excellent, but not on the same level. Lupa may be a little more value, but it's more like half the price for 2/3 the meal.

[Beachfan]

I agree with MatthewB.  I disagree with SLK.

I just had an awful experience at Babbo. July 20 @8:30 p.m.  Four of us tourists from Puerto Rico,  reservation made way in advance.  Properly dressed but males wearing neckties.  No straw hats or guayaberas and we all had socks.  Arrived 10 minutes early.  At 9:00 p.m. not seated yet.  Left.  No place to wait.  No explanations.  No apologies.  Just a lot of frequent bumps, excuse mes, and promises to be seated as soon as the next table was readied ("lots of customers are paying their bills!!!").

Incredible behavior for a restaurant of this supposed caliber.

By the way, I have never seen Mario on Food TV. I have seen Emeril tons of times but never been or care to visit any of his restaurants.

Although I'm a Babbo lover, I agree the waiting area is intolerable. They should not have the walk in tables; they should be just for people waiting.

I get there late for late tables, early for early tables, and don't bother with prime time tables.

[Beachfan]

my biggest issue with babbo has always been the host, as i've stated several times on egullet.  the servers are always very nice.  my most recent visit was probably 4 months ago, and everything seemed "normal" to me.  i hope it doesn't take a turn for the worst.

The short bald guy or the young guy with the goatee?

The young guy was very nice; I was there twice in 8 days, remembered me, was gracious, etc.

You have to cut short bald guys slack. After all, they have a lot to compensate for. If you want to really see sparks fly, we should be there when another short bald guy comes in and is kept waiting by the host short bald guy for 40 minutes.

PS apologies in advance to all the nice short bald guys out there.

[tommy]

my biggest issue with babbo has always been the host, as i've stated several times on egullet.  the servers are always very nice.  my most recent visit was probably 4 months ago, and everything seemed "normal" to me.  i hope it doesn't take a turn for the worst.

The short bald guy or the young guy with the goatee?

the short balding older guy. although i don't think being short, bald, or old is what makes him so bitter.

[Fat Guy]

Rachel, thanks for doing the legwork on the price comparison. Did you happen to notice any specific bottles of wine that were on both lists? The key question I think would be to see if those bottles are priced differently. So, for example, if both restaurants have Notarpanaro '97 on their lists and both are charging $28, I don't think it's particularly relevant that Babbo has more wines that cost $100+ than Lupa does. If, however, Lupa is selling Notarpanaro for $24 and Babbo is selling it for $32, that strikes me as significant and representative of actual higher wine prices.

Also, as an aside, thanks to everybody for having an informative disagreement and debate on this thread without getting (overly) personal or combative. This is the way eGullet should be.

[Mabelline]

As usual, a day late and etc.etc.etcetera. But I had to read the entire thread to get every bit of the grist. Now, I was raised in AZ., lived (AND I MEAN LIVED) in Texas 20some years and now reside in Montana. So the New York experience is not an everyday occurance.However after saying that may I just add something that does not seem to occur to anyone but made a lot of sense to me? Perhaps those outlanders (no "t" word here) that show up in inappropriate dress are only taking their cue from the great one hisself? I mean, hell, if all you know of Mario is his fnw shows, books, etc., then judging by his mode of apparel you might figure it's alright to dress like that.And I might also add that after 9/11, the entire country was urged to come and vacation and eat,sleep, play, and spend in New York. Some folks might not have been able to get there till now, but I'll bet in these lean times, they are happy to be there and you know what, I never heard of nobody gettin seriously put off their food by the clothes of the folks at the next table. Grow where you're planted, and worry about the service and food and wine. It's why you're there.

[Fat Guy]

And just when I said how well it was going.

I really think that part of the discussion is over, and I'm going to insist that we keep this focused on the issue of Babbo the restaurant and not let it slip back into being a pissing match about tourists. The points have been made, let's move on.

[Jinmyo]

The points have been made, let's move on.

Urf.

And I just came up with a really vitriolic, nasty, inflammatory comment that would upset all sides.

(Well, actually I cribbed it from another site.)

Oh well.

Proceed.

[Rachel Perlow]

Rachel, thanks for doing the legwork on the price comparison. Did you happen to notice any specific bottles of wine that were on both lists? The key question I think would be to see if those bottles are priced differently. So, for example, if both restaurants have Notarpanaro '97 on their lists and both are charging $28, I don't think it's particularly relevant that Babbo has more wines that cost $100+ than Lupa does. If, however, Lupa is selling Notarpanaro for $24 and Babbo is selling it for $32, that strikes me as significant and representative of actual higher wine prices.

It is much harder comparing wine lists because of the format of the websites. Lupa has a whole wine list all on one page (updated 9/1/02). Babbo's wine list is broken up on different pages by style of wine. I can't find an update date, but the most recent press mention on the Babbo site is from July 2002. However, I did find a few wines that are listed on both lists. Interestingly, Babbo is not necessarily more expensive.

Montepulciano D'Abruzzo 'Toni' Cataldi Madonna 1998: Lupa $70, Babbo $56

Vigna Garrone Odoardi 1998: Lupa $64, Babbo $67

Sagrantino di Montefalco Paolo Bea: Lupa (1998) $83, Babbo (1997) $75 - I was unsure about listing different years as I know nothing about this wine. There were several examples of similar, but not exactly the same wines.