Babbo (First 6 Years)

[Rosie]

In NJ we bring our own wine. I wonder if we could BYOW (water)?

[Ruby]

Quote: from Rosie on 2:44 pm on Nov. 16, 2001

In NJ we bring our own wine. I wonder if we could BYOW (water)?

Rosie, I love it! Schlepping in with gallons of water! I can picture some haughty maitre d' having a hissy fit and saying "There's the door!" or charging corking fees for water! LOL

[Rosie]

It's illegal to charge a corkage fee for wine in NJ. Who could I ask to find out if it is illegal to charge a glass/corkage fee for water??? ;)

[Fat Guy]

Ruby, why do you think bottled water would be more secure against terrorism than tap water? It seems to me, it would be a simple matter to poison an individual bottle of water on a store or warehouse shelf. Whereas, it would be very difficult to produce enough of any toxin to make inroads into the whole city's water supply.

This thread has migrated from a discussion of a bottled water incident to a discussion of bottled water in general. Perhaps someone would like to make the next post on the General board, with a link back to this one, so we can continue the discussion there.

[861728]

As a waiter allow me to chime in:

(Keep in mind I think the BABBO event was wrong)

1. Waiters are executing managments' policies. And while it seems unequal to punish the waiter for doing so, there is not a waiter in the world who thinks he shouldn't be rewarded when the policy pleases you. If I were the person who was charged for water that I didn't order and management refused to remove it from the check I would most certainly deduct that amount from the gratuity. Steven will tell you that the fastest way to change a management policy is through the wallet of the waiter. We are not going to contniue with a practice that kills our income.

2. To say that you are forced to drink bottled water is a lie. You may experience pressure, but giving in to that pressure is on you. Don't be such victims. What sort of person are you who feels that I have to power to twist your arms? If you want tap, ask for it. Be clear and direct.

3. Danny Meyer isn't supposed to make a profit? His restaurants are good value in their categories but they are still expensive restaurants.

4. Shaw is right. At the BABBO price point of dining the number of guests who desire water service to continue uninterrupted are far greater than those of you who wish consideration on each bottle.

[Fat Guy]

Of course I'm right. That goes without saying. :)

Regarding your request for confirmation, I agree in principle.

Steven will tell you that the fastest way to change a management policy is through the wallet of the waiter. We are not going to contniue with a practice that kills our income.

I'll buy that. Except, it has to be done as a broad-based movement by a substantial number of customers. The occasional penalty exacted on a waiter by an irritated customer will not change a policy. Waiters are punished unpredictably by irritated customers all the time. (That's part of the reason so many restaurants now pool tips: To prevent such seemingly random penalties from disproportionally impacting any one staff member.) It will probably not even drive a waiter to try to get the policy changed.

It's good to be a proactive customer, to express your thoughts (both positive and negative) to management and waitstaff, and to allow your tip to reflect the quality of service you received (bearing in mind that extremely low tipping should be reserved for the most outrageous instances only). But if your complaint is at odds with the preferences (or even the tolerances) of the core customer group, you don't have much chance of effecting change.

Every restaurant is part place-of-public-accommodation and part private-club. The regulars set the tone. If you are not a regular, and you try to get policies changed, you'll basically be looked at like a guy who shows up as a guest at somebody's university club and starts lecturing everybody on how they can do things better.

[Ruby]

Quote: from Fat Guy on 10:25 am on Nov. 17, 2001

Ruby, why do you think bottled water would be more secure against terrorism than tap water? It seems to me, it would be a simple matter to poison an individual bottle of water on a store or warehouse shelf. Whereas, it would be very difficult to produce enough of any toxin to make inroads into the whole city's water supply.

Bottled water is sealed and the kind I buy has an extra strip around the cap. Many products on shelves today are sealed and written instructions urge the consumer to return the product if the seal has been removed. I believe this was started several years ago when a bottle of Tylenol was tampered with and one or more persons died. Of course, if someone wants to really get at bottled water, I'm sure they'll come up with something but I can't live in constant fear of "what if?"

Trust me, brown rusty tap water is not pretty either.

[Bux]

Water aside, as this was not the basis for Robert's complaint, I recall a dinner with friends at Babbo. These friends were actually regulars at all Batali's restaurants which makes the treatment worse, in my mind. A side order of vegetable (I think it was fennel) was ordered and it arrived almost raw, tough and too chewy to enjoy. Two bites were taken. I took the second bite at my companion's invitation and concurred in the opinion that it was inedible. The fennel was left uneaten, the waitress was told it was inedible and I truly expected some consideration--like maybe not to see it on the bill. It was on the bill and it colored my opinion of the evening. By the way, when my companion noted that the fennel was inedible, the waitress replied she could not,or would not, convey that information to the kitchen, but that we should make note of it on the comments card. That would have been unacceptable, even if such a card arrived with our bill, but none did. As our firends chose not to make a fuss and they were regulars, we did not make a fuss. I think that goes without saying. I'll defer to my companion's practices in tipping and treating the staff in their restaurants and expect them to do the same in mine up to a point of course.

[robert brown]

Bux, it all goes to show that there are regulars and there are regulars. If you're rediscent about being candid or expressing your real feelings in some way, then you are a regular attendee as opposed to a regular who gets special treatment. With an owner or manager who really knows you, you should be able to point out a flaw in a way that gets the point across without ruffling any feathers. Maybe the problem with your friends is that Mario has a piece of too many restaurants. (It sounds like another distressing story, regardless).

(Edited by robert brown at 1:09 pm on Nov. 18, 2001)

[Fat Guy]

I don't know, Robert. I mean, I am pretty forthright at the places where I'm a regular. At the same time, I often find myself allowing a chef to make a suprise menu. They love to do that for their regulars, and most of the time it results in a better meal, but occasionally there's a dish that just doesn't square with my tastes. But when you get to that level of regularness in a restaurant, you're part customer and part guest. You don't want to tread on the part of the hospitality that is clearly occurring outside the normal boundaries of a commercial transactional relationship. So I'll eat something to be polite, or ignore a small problem, because I don't want to be ungrateful. I won't ignore a big, or often repeated, problem though.

[yvonne johnson]

Quote: from Bux on 11:30 am on Nov. 18, 2001

  By the way, when my companion noted that the fennel was inedible, the waitress replied she could not,or would not, convey that information to the kitchen, but that we should make note of it on the comments card.

I'm amazed. So the kitchen staff isn't interested in immediate feedback and prefers to serve inedible fennel all night? And the comments cards are read when?...next week? Comments cards indeed.

[Ruby]

I've been following this interesting thread (eat your heart out, Chowhound!) :) since Robert Brown originally wrote about it.  From the lastest post about what the server said about the inedible fennel, I'm starting to read between the lines of what may happen at Babbo. Methinks the servers may take it upon themselves to improvise if a scenario doesn't go smoothly - i.e., what the waiter said to Robert about one bottle of water not being enough for four people and this latest comment about the fennel. I've had this personally happen where I've felt that servers kind of 'hoof it' and give you their logic on the situation at hand when perhaps it's not even restaurant policy. Well, that's my take on this after hearing about the fennel.

Did anyone write to Babbo about this thread and, if so, any responses from them? That would indeed be interesting.

[Fat Guy]

I have written to a Babbo manager -- or at least someone who was a manager at the time I reviewed the restaurant -- and have not yet heard back. I'm not aware of a Babbo Web site, otherwise I'd try making contact that way too.

[robert brown]

I'm going there tonight (11/19) and will report back. Even though there will be only three of us, I'll drink enough water to induce a second bottle from the waiter. The men's room there is nice, so why not?

[Wilfrid]

I have an irresistible mental image of a Babbo full of e-gulleters, glugging down their first bottle of water, then scowling at the waitstaff as if to dare them to bring more.

I hope you enjoy the meal, as well as your secret mission

[Bux]

Robert, I'm pretty much in agreement with Fat Guy, or so I believe. There are various way s to complain about a problem. Clearly the waitress was unprofessionally unresponsive and to pursue it with her would have created a fuss. The last thing a good customer (or guest as Fat Guy puts it) wants is to reward the good treatment received in the past with a scene. A phone call from home to the right person, a word in the ear of the maitre d' or someone else on the next visit would be far more effective and a better way to go. Also as Fat Guy noted, if you've received numerous comps in the past, it's pretty petty to complain about one lost dish. As my companion was a vegetarian, he probably ran up a smaller bill than I did and even with this dish, my share of his meal was probably smaller than his share of my meal. I was content to leave it all in his hands.

Yvonne, I was floored too, but I suspect it was an untrained waitress (if I recall, she was a bartender called in to help on the floor that night) rather than a disinterest on the part of the kitchen. I think the waitress thought the comment cards relived her of her responsibility.

By the way, I think the undercooked fennel was not a major flaw or sign of Mario's culinary weakness, my entire problem was with the waitress' response, or lack thereof.

[Fat Guy]

So, I was at a party tonight. Actually it was an opening at the Cooper-Hewitt. There I was, sipping my white wine (that's what they serve at openings, in case you didn't know), when I spied two very hairy legs in the crowd. I didn't even have to look up to realize I was in the presence of Mario Batali himself.

Turns out he's a Cooper-Hewitt member. I'm not making this up.

I'd like to say I remembered to ask him about Babbo's water policy, but I guess I was so starstruck I forgot. Instead there was a discussion of the bacon-of-the-month club, of which we are both members.

Momo did not, I repeat did not, meet Mario.

[robert brown]

BABBO. Unchanged for the week. Tonight the waiter poured from a second bottle much more seamlessly than last week’s waiter; I had no idea if  my refilled glass was from the first bottle or the second, due in part because he used a separate table for the wine and water bottles. Because I had to be on my best behavior, I did not bring up the matter in question to the waiter, the manager, or on the complaint card. Nonetheless, nothing has changed, although I did take note that the water boy at the beginning of the meal asked me if I wanted “Still, tap, or sparkling” in that order. Bottled water at Babbo is a dollar more than I thought: ů., not Ů.

[Ruby]

Quote: from robert brown on 12:47 am on Nov. 20, 2001

BABBO. Unchanged for the week. Tonight the waiter poured from a second bottle much more seamlessly than last week’s waiter; I had no idea if  my refilled glass was from the first bottle or the second, due in part because he used a separate table for the wine and water bottles. Because I had to be on my best behavior, I did not bring up the matter in question to the waiter, the manager, or on the complaint card. Nonetheless, nothing has changed, although I did take note that the water boy at the beginning of the meal asked me if I wanted “Still, tap, or sparkling” in that order. Bottled water at Babbo is a dollar more than I thought: ů., not Ů.

Well, I guess this reflects Babbo's policy: if customers keep drinking bottled water, they just keep pouring it and don't feel customers want to be 'bothered' with a request of "Would you like another bottle?" which interrupts the Babbo dining experience.

Nothing wrong with it, really. If no one says anything directly to the Babbo powers that be. I suppose they figure on one bottle for two people. That's what's usually provided whenever I've been at a business or benefit dinner.

When I go to Babbo one day, I'll just factor in the cost of bottled water. Of course, the wait staff isn't forcing anyone to drink it - they're only refilling glasses, and bottles at seven bucks a pop, when they see empty ones.

[Fat Guy]

. . . and when somebody has ordered bottled water in the first place.

To think, I had the solution within my grasp, and I let it slip away . . .

[robert brown]

It's all right, Steven. At least no one can accuse you of not bringing home the conversation.

[robert brown]

Ruby, the problem is is that Babbo waiters pours the water in such a way that they segue from one bottle to the next in such a way that you think you're still on the first bottle. Most people aren't even paying attention except, of course, e-Gullet readers. Anyway, the noose is tightening on Joe and Mario and their happy band of skullduggeryers.

(Edited by robert brown at 11:20 am on Nov. 20, 2001)

[Ruby]

Well, Robert, this post taught me one good thing: when I order bottled water in a restaurant, I'll state very clearly "One bottle only please" at the time our table originally orders the water. Then, if the server brings more out without a request, they'll have to explain why. Let the restaurant 'eat' the charge for overpriced water - don't ask, don't charge.

[Wilfrid]

A "smidge" of trouble?  Some stats.  At a glance, this thread is the longest on any of the current e-gullet boards.  In fact, it is more than twice as long as almost every other thread.  A couple of exceptions:  the comparatively trivial topic of Chef of the Century is standing at 58 posts;  a thread on the UK board about the Observer Monthly stands at a slightly creepy 61.

My personal view is that three credible solutions to the issue have emerged:  (1)  Forget about it (which I think is Mr Shaw's view; (2) Tell them how many bottles you want (put much more neatly by Ruby); and (3) Don't touch the stuff (my own approach).  Doubtless I oversimplify.  I wonder if there are more solutions to be found?

In any case, I think we should keep going until there have been 1000 views.  I must start drinking this water stuff.

(Edited by Wilfrid at 12:38 pm on Nov. 20, 2001)

[Mao]

I ate there Saturday and Sunday night, and was offered tap or bottled in both cases right up front and was shown no ill will whatsoever when requesting tap.

I should also add that having experienced a decent amount of recent disappointment at 2 of NYC's more reputable French restaurants recently (Lespinasse & Daniel in the last month), both meals AT Babbo were stupendously good and consistent.