Babbo (First 6 Years)

[stefanyb]

At GT we also have 11pm bookings on Friday and Saturday and they come in handy for post-theatre dining but also for post flight dining when one is coming from a different time zone. I'm nearing the end of my shift and a table of four, wide awake-jetlag-hasn't-hit-yet-we're-in-a-different-time-zone, sits down and enquires about the 7-course tasting menu with cheese!

I'm not going to argue that 11pm is a dinner hour, but it is a very workable time for certain people and given that New York is so massive a city, these people come and fill the seats.

Christopher,

When you signed on were you aware of the possibility of working this late?  How long have these late reservations been a fact of restaurant life?  I remember, not so long ago,  being unable to do theater and dinner after, at any serious place.

[Liza]

Excellent point, Christopher. We also need to remember that what we consider to be dinner time, does not always jibe with others.

[Peter B Wolf]

The eleven PM dinner reservation is nothing new. Whilst working as chef at the Student Prince in Springfield Mass (in the sixties and seventies), during summer months, "Storrowton Music Fair" brought every night customers and cast to our place (with reservations). On one occasion Zsa Zsa Gabor's poodle got a well trimmed N.Y. strip steak. Ann Curio always wanted a Wiener Schnitzel.

I know it was not GT, nor today, but we were open and served Dinners until midnight.

[Bux]

I think it's not a question of whether it's reasonable for the diner to eat at that hour--in Spain 11:00pm is a very reasonable hour for dinner to start. The question I'd have is the kitchen still in top form and is the best food still being turned out? Is the wait staff still alert and charming?

[stefanyb]

I think it's not a question of whether it's reasonable for the diner to eat at that hour--in Spain 11:00pm is a very reasonable hour for dinner to start. The question I'd have is the kitchen still in top form and is the best food still being turned out? Is the wait staff still alert and charming?

Thats exactly what I asked.

[robert brown]

I would worry about certain products no longer being available and being gently coerced by the staff into leaving. I would also rush through dinner without prodding since I hate to see tired employees working so late. By the way, my latest Babbo visit was terrible. I had friends in from Florida who had never been there. I phoned the day before, a Monday, and a woman told me that the restaurant holds six tables for people who show up without reserving, and if I got there by 5:30, which is when she said the restaurant opened, I should have no problem. In fact, she said it would probably be okay if we arrived as late as 6:00 since it was early in the week. We arrived at 5:30 and were told by the Major Domo at the reservations lecturn that the tables were all given out at 5:00 and that we should wait at the bar; if worse came to worse, the four of us could have dinner at the bar. At 6:00 the fellow said everyone had come and there was no table for us. In the interim I had walked over to Blue Hill and got us a table as a fall back. The Babbo guy was nearly shocked when I told him we were not going to sit cheek by jowl in order to have our dinner. To me, the restaurant led us down the primrose path, and may have from the beginning trapped me into a potential  bait and switch situation. It sounds like the place is getting really mercenary.

[wingding]

Speaking for myself,and the back of the house,I don't think people are working well after 11-13 hours.Most kitchen workers for evening service arrive at work between 1 & 3 pm,and work until 11-closing,so in all honesty, the late tables aren't appreciated.[and the chef has probably gone home earlier]If you've done a double shift,and been working since 9 am,it's torture...

[Beachfan]

Having reflected further, I reiterate my previous comment that I'm glad Babbo's is open late.  It's a great option.  It probably isn't as good as 8pm.  But having something other than a diner open at midnight is one of the things that makes NYC great.  

Here are a few reasons to have  Babbo serve late:

After theatre

After a baseball game

The day I fly in (good point Christopher)

My wife, who goes to be early, doesn't feel like going out, so I nosh and then go out myself

I want to drink some wine off the list and will have just apps

I love the Village in summer late at night.  11:00 doesn't seem late there.

I understand the offer of 11:00 might be disappointing.  Would you prefer they say there are no table available, and not mention the late hour?

[cabrales]

I dine at or around 10:15 p.m. sometimes in Europe.  Gordon Ramsay RHR in London has a number of 10:15 (or less commonly, even 10:30) reservations. It works out well for me because the restaurant is only open on a weekday, and my work hours are unpredictable. Since one has to make reservations in advance (1 month), I sometimes request a 10:15 to be sure I will be able to take in dinner there even if work ended being busy. Guy Savoy in Paris also has 10:30 reservations (and possibly later ones).  One time, I secured such a reservation and asked the maitre d' to call me at my hotel in the event a table freed up earlier. I ended up beginning dinner at 10:00 p.m. When I dine late, I tend not to request multi-course tasting menus.  

[Ruby]

At GT we also have 11pm bookings on Friday and Saturday and they come in handy for post-theatre dining but also for post flight dining when one is coming from a different time zone. I'm nearing the end of my shift and a table of four, wide awake-jetlag-hasn't-hit-yet-we're-in-a-different-time-zone, sits down and enquires about the 7-course tasting menu with cheese!

I'm not going to argue that 11pm is a dinner hour, but it is a very workable time for certain people and given that New York is so massive a city, these people come and fill the seats.

Christopher, you raise good points and New York is a 24-hour town. However, my point is, besides Babbo, many popular restaurants I've tried to reserve at seem to have a kneejerk reaction about either filling a table at 5:30 or 10:30. They respond so quickly to those hours that I've started to question whether some 'in' restaurants are really filled to capacity or they just want to fill those odd hour tables.

Sure, it's great to know there are some good restaurants that are open after the theatre or whatever but I don't want to be force-fed those hours just for the restaurant's convenience. If some popular celebrity or politician called for an 8:30 reservation I bet the restaurant would accommodate them.

[tommy]

Stephany, the offer from Babbo for an 11 o'clock reservation is ridiculous. Next they'll be offering people 'dinner' to be consumed in the morning. The same thing happened to me about a year ago - I called Babbo weeks in advance for a party of 4 and was offered a 10:30 seating. Sorry, I just don't like eating that late and feeling like maybe I'm gettin 'sloppy seconds' meaning the night is over, their preferred customers have dined and gone home and we're at the bottom of the barrel. Maybe some people love eating late but I don't.

when you say "preferred customers", do you mean those that diligently call 1 month in advance?

what problem could you possibly have with this reality?

[jaybee]

I think it's good for the restaurant that they are so busy.  Whether it is good for the diner to eat there at 11 PM is subject to experience.  But I am confused about something. If a restaurant seats only by reservation, and if every seating between 6 and 10 is reserved, what should they do?  Why is there this tone of resentment?  Do you think they are lying and saving open tables for more important people?  Are they playing games?  Or are they full and really have no where to put you until 11 PM?  It's annoying to be denied a table when you want one.  But does that mean there's something wrong with the restaurant?

[Ruby]

I think it's good for the restaurant that they are so busy.  Whether it is good for the diner to eat there at 11 PM is subject to experience.  But I am confused about something. If a restaurant seats only by reservation, and if every seating between 6 and 10 is reserved, what should they do?  Why is there this tone of resentment?  Do you think they are lying and saving open tables for more important people?  Are they playing games?  Or are they full and really have no where to put you until 11 PM?  It's annoying to be denied a table when you want one.  But does that mean there's something wrong with the restaurant?

I've worked in restaurants during the summer months when in school. I have some friends who work in trendy restaurants in New York and other major cities. Some, not all, restaurants do save the best tables (the way the airlines apportion only a certain amount of seats for economy passengers). Some restaurants even keep specific tables open for certain individuals and if that individual hasn't called for a reservation by a certain time, they open the table up for others.

I've called up to a month in advance for certain Le's and La's restaurants and still get the same ole 5:30-6 or 10:30 offer. Either that or their phone is constantly busy or you go through voice mail hell. Years ago, I wanted to dine at Lutece and their phone was always busy so I took it upon myself walk over there after lunchtime and knock on their door. I explained the situation to the person who answered the door and was finally able to secure a dinner at eight reservation.

Yes, I agree it's wonderful that restaurants are busy. Our New York economy certainly needs this; especially Downtown. Nothing wrong with that and that makes me happy.

[tommy]

i'm still missing the point.

i have little problem securing a table at 8 pm at most NYC restaurants a month in advance.  these include babbo and GT.

[Ruby]

i'm still missing the point.

Yes, I believe you.  

[stefanyb]

I think it's good for the restaurant that they are so busy.  Whether it is good for the diner to eat there at 11 PM is subject to experience.  But I am confused about something. If a restaurant seats only by reservation, and if every seating between 6 and 10 is reserved, what should they do?  Why is there this tone of resentment?  Do you think they are lying and saving open tables for more important people?  Are they playing games?  Or are they full and really have no where to put you until 11 PM?  It's annoying to be denied a table when you want one.  But does that mean there's something wrong with the restaurant?

Jay

My original commentary was about whether or not a top-of-the-line restaurant and more specifically Mario, himself,  can sustain a high level of production for all hours between 5:30 and 1 AM.  I still have my doubts.  And by extension, if he/they cannot, doesn't that mean that some people will eat well and others will not.  And also, as Sandra asked, when would one be most likely to get the best meal?

[jaybee]

Stefany,  I understood your question which is a good one.  My sense from the answers of those behind the kitchen doors is that a late diner chances not getting the best a place can do if it not the kind of place that makes a specialty of serving into the wee hours.  I was reacting to comments by Ruby and others on previous threads that seemed angry at the restaurants for not giving them reservations when they wanted.  There seems to be a sense that this was some sort of partiality or game that the restaurant was playing.  I've tried several times and failed to get a table at Oest at at time I wanted to eat.  They've come back with 10, 10:30 or 5 :30, none of which worked for us. I figure sooner or later I'll hit it right, or they'l cool off and be available for me when I want them. Then again, from the WOM I've been getting, I think I may skip it altogether.

[Ruby]

Stefany,  I understood your question which is a good one.  My sense from the answers of those behind the kitchen doors is that a late diner chances not getting the best a place can do if it not the kind of place that makes a specialty of serving into the wee hours.  I was reacting to comments by Ruby and others on previous threads that seemed angry at the restaurants for not giving them reservations when they wanted.  There seems to be a sense that this was some sort of partiality or game that the restaurant was playing.  I've tried several times and failed to get a table at Oest at at time I wanted to eat.  They've come back with 10, 10:30 or 5 :30, none of which worked for us. I figure sooner or later I'll hit it right, or they'l cool off and be available for me when I want them. Then again, from the WOM I've been getting, I think I may skip it altogether.

Jaybee, I just tried a phone reservation experiment with Oeust. I called them at 11:15 a.m. and asked the reservationist how far in advance they accept reservations. She answered up until the end of the year. Here's how the conversation went:

Me: I'd like to reserve a table for Friday, June 21.

Her: For how many please?

Me: Two.

Her: I have a table for two at 5 or 5:30 and 9:30.

Me: That's all you have?

Her: Yes, right now.

Me: Thank you. I'll try another time.

Okay, either people have already made a ton of reservations or as I've stated earlier, the resto just wants to fill those tables at odd hours. 5:00 or 5:30 would free up a table for another two people at 7:00 or 7:30. 9:30 isn't too bad but then what does one do on the Upper West Side afterwards???

[Wilfrid]

The secret -and it's not really secret - is to seek a table at some time other than Friday or Saturday at 7.30/8pm.  I don't find it even slightly hard to believe that those tables fill up far in advance at popular restaurants.  Try a Tuesday.  I have practically walked into hard-ticket restaurants on a Monday or Tuesday.

It would be interesting to ask Ouest on what day they could sit a party of two (or four) at 7.30 on a Friday.

I had to make last minute weekend reservations for visitors last week, and I have to say that even what I would consider definitely second-string restaurants were offering me 5.30 or 10.30.  Even down on the Lower East Side.  I can't believe they were holding on to tables at better times - like I said, this was last minute.

Credit where it's due:  I have just changed a reservation at the Tasting Room for the third time, and they couldn't be more charming.  Jennifer and some other lady. Well done.  

[Ruby]

The secret -and it's not really secret - is to seek a table at some time other than Friday or Saturday at 7.30/8pm.  I don't find it even slightly hard to believe that those tables fill up far in advance at popular restaurants.  Try a Tuesday.  I have practically walked into hard-ticket restaurants on a Monday or Tuesday.

It would be interesting to ask Ouest on what day they could sit a party of two (or four) at 7.30 on a Friday.

I had to make last minute weekend reservations for visitors last week, and I have to say that even what I would consider definitely second-string restaurants were offering me 5.30 or 10.30.  Even down on the Lower East Side.  I can't believe they were holding on to tables at better times - like I said, this was last minute.

Credit where it's due:  I have just changed a reservation at the Tasting Room for the third time, and they couldn't be more charming.  Jennifer and some other lady. Well done.  

Wilfrid, no contest there that it's easier to book a table during the week at a popular restaurant. However, I've found that NYC people go out just as much on a Wednesday night to break up the week and Thursday to get a head start on the weekend. So that leaves Monday and Tuesday. The reason I experimented with a Friday night with Ouest was that Stefany's original post was for a dinner reservation on a Saturday so I wanted to keep my experiment in line with the weekend.

I'm not surprised that it's hard to secure reservations on the Lower East Side. This is a very hot trendy neighborhood. Lastly, the Tasting Room is small and I would believe them when they say they're fully booked.

[jaybee]

Ruby, I got a similar response from Oest.  In fact I walked in at 6 PM and asked for a table for one and they suggested I eat at the bar. I was annoyed, but took them at their word that they either had a full house or didn't think I'd be out by 7 or 7:30 when they needed thetable for a larger party. I'm sure these are all part of the management of the house for best return.  I fugure that every dog has its day, and sooner or later they will be glad to see me.  Whether by then I will want them is another story.  

For a place like Babbo, some friends and I were determined to eat there and at a time we could stomach, so we booked about two months in advance for a Friday night table for 4 at 8:30 and got it.  The meal was wonderful and worth the wait.

This is not re: Stefany's original question though, which is whether you can get the best a place can do at a late hour.

I would avoid really late dinners if it were a "destination" restaurant for the reasons others have previously stated.

[dimitri steinberg]

The point regarding Wednesday and Thursday brings up another issue, which is to what extent things change during the summer months?  Clearly, plenty of the locals who do a lot of dining out are not in the City on Friday and Saturday.  My experience is that Wes and Thurs get a lot busier.  Friday and Saturday are more of a crapshoot.  Some places get much less busy, while others seem to benefit from a combination of tourists and locals trying to get in.  What do others think?

[Christopher]

Never take a 5.30 reservation. The restaurant will assume you're pre-theatre and rush you out.

Never take 9,30 or later as the specials are sold out,  everyone wants to go home and they will rush you out.

As we all know, you should never eat in a fine establishment on Friday and Saturday nights. The crowd is too noisy and the kitchen assumes that everyone is an amateur diner and cooks accordingly (All Medium rare orders are cooked Medium etc.) The chef knows that these nights are not filled with savvy diners so his menu is dumbed down.

Sunday night is out of the question. The fish is old, the chef is off and the best captains simply do not work.

Monday is too risky. What the waiter calls a special is really just what didn't sell over the weekend and the best Captains are still off anyway.

Tuesday. You could chance a Tuesday night but the A team is just returning and it usually takes this shift for them to get their game back. The chef is always experimental on Tuesday's and the specials tend to be more weird than good based on what he's experienced over the weekend. Better not eat out on Tuesday. Plus, the Captains, having spent way too much money over their two days off are intent on pumping up the check and will sell you bottled water and really expensive vodka to try to even their losses. Besides, it's a school night at the beginning of the week and what fun is that?

Wednesdays? Forget about it. It's matinee day and the whole front and back of house is working double shifts and really wiped out. Besides, the assumption is that you have theatre plans even if you don't and you will be rushed through your meal.

Which leaves Thursday as the only night you should ever consider dining in Manhattan. But, are all Thursdays created equal? No!

You never want to eat on the 1st Thursday because it's right after inventory when chef, management and sommelier are freaked about food and wine costs. There is a moratorium on premium products and the uber cuisine you've come for just wont be served. The same for the last Thursday when, like car salesmen, the aforementioned team is working soley to come in on budget and so the wine recomendation you recieve will have been dertermined after looking at the P/L sheets that week and not your order in the moment. No, never the last Thursday.

So: the only time you should even consider dining at a nice Manhattan restaurant is between 7-8 on the middle two Thursdays of any given month. All is not equal there really are only 24 days out of any year where it's safe to dine. The flaw here is that all of the celebrities and foodie cognoscenti know these rules so you really can't be sure you'll get the attention you deserve. But if you're willing to risk it you can have a good meal

You have been warned, now put us all on speed dial, go forth and compete for dinner!

[tommy]

christopher, that was brilliant.  

[Ruby]

The point regarding Wednesday and Thursday brings up another issue, which is to what extent things change during the summer months?  Clearly, plenty of the locals who do a lot of dining out are not in the City on Friday and Saturday.  My experience is that Wes and Thurs get a lot busier.  Friday and Saturday are more of a crapshoot.  Some places get much less busy, while others seem to benefit from a combination of tourists and locals trying to get in.  What do others think?

Dimitri, I think you raise an excellent point about locals being away for the summer months. However, I believe tourists who want to eat at fine/trendy popular restaurants offset the locals so it probably balances out.

In the past, I've found the best time to secure a good table in a hard-to-reserve restaurant is to book over holiday weekends like Memorial Day and July 4th. Tourists are at the theater, watching fireworks or sightseeing and it's easier to snag a table.