OH Discouragement

[ChocoChris]

HI,

I just made a cake that will be part of an almond torte. I am concerned because it is supposed to be split into three layers and it only looks like it will be high enough to get two from it. Plus it baked in 30 min rather than the 45 to 50 min the recipe said. The steps included creaming butter, sugar, almond paste then whipping to stiff egg whites folding them together and then folding in the flour. Could it be possible that I deflated the batter when folding? I tried to be gentle. Also the recipe called for propping the oven door open to release steam which I never saw before in a recipe but I did and still was careful to monitor the temp. and keep it up at 375.

Sigh, there are so many new variables for this one. I'm thinking of making it again tonight and thought I'd see if I could get some suggestions before I made the same mistakes **sigh**

Thanks,

ChocoChris

[Suzanne F]

How much did you beat the egg whites? If you got them to the point of very dry stiffness, you may have overbeaten them. In which case the air in them could not keep stretching the egg as it heated and expanded. So instead the egg whites kind of cracked and released the air -- deflating instead of further inflating. At least, that's one possibility.

[Sandra Levine]

Did you use the same size eggs as specified in the recipe? The same size pan?

[Lesley C]

Be sure to pre-heat your oven and that your mold is ready when the batter is ready. Try removing 1/4 of the sugar from the first creaming step and adding it to the whites to keep them firm. Then, when ready to fold, STIR 1/3 of the whites into the butter/almond paste mixture with a spoon to lighten the base mixture, then FOLD in the rest using a rubber spatula. As Sandra said, be sure your pan is the correct size. The steam idea might be left to the last 10 minutes of the cooking time. Also, French cakes are often cut into many thin slices. I've cut cakes into five that most people would cut into two. How high was your last cake? Finally, what recipe are you using?

[ChocoChris]

Hi,

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Yes I used the correct sized pan and the eggs used were fine too. The egg whites were still shiny and had soft peaks when I finished beating them. The sugar with egg whites was recommended in the recipe so that can be ruled out. I read my Simple Art of Perfect Baking and think that it may be that I greased the sides of the springform pan and the book said that the idea is to not grease them so that the batter can stick to the sides and climb up.

The recipe source was The Chocolate Bible: The Definitive Sourcebook, Teubner (editor); while it has lots of illustrations, there was not much of a discussion of the use of a torte ring or a springform pan and how to prepare the pan. Well, there was a couple of pictures of preparing the torte ring with parchment on the bottom but nothing about the greasing/non-greasing question.

So long story already too long, I'm going with the non-greasing idea but now I also have the question of whether it will work since the only springform pan I have is non-stick. A big learning experience this will be.

Wish me luck!

ChocoChris

[nightscotsman]

One other variable you might pay attention to is making sure you cream the butter and sugar long enough. The final state should be very fluffy and almost white in color. If in doubt, beat longer. Creaming butter and sugar is one of the methods leavening a cake.

Is there any baking powder in the recipe? baking powder does not last forever and will lose it's leavening power over time. If the expiration date on the bottom is passed, it might be time to throw it away and get a fresh can. You can also test the baking powder by sprinkling a bit in a glass of water - if it fizzes actively it should still be good.

Wait a minute... I just checked the recipe I think you're using (page 82, right?). It says to place the almond paste, egg yolks, butter, sugar, salt and vanilla together in the a bowl and cream them. This does not sound right to me. The ususal method is to cream the butter and suger alone (you could include the almond paste as well) untill light and fluffy, then adding the egg yolks one at a time beating well after each, then the vanilla at the end. The butter and sugar need to form an emulsion before adding the eggs or they won't retain their fluffiness.

It also looks from the photos that the baked cake won't be higher than two inches at the most, so your layers should be very thin.

[Suzanne F]

It also looks from the photos that the baked cake won't be higher than two inches at the most, so your layers should be very thin.

So you're saying that maybe nothing was wrong after all? Oh well. All the advice given was still good, even if unnecessary.

[Peter B Wolf]

....... The steps included creaming butter, sugar, almond paste then whipping to stiff egg whites folding them together and then folding in the flour.  Could it be possible that I deflated the batter when folding?.......

Should it not have been :''Folding in the flour" and "then the beaten whites" vs what you did?

[ChocoChris]

Yes, pg. 82 has the recipe. The order, in the book, for folding in the ingred was egg whites and flour last. I thought adding the egg to the almond paste and then adding the butter, sugar, etc. was an odd order but then again, this is my first attempt with this particular type of cake so I didn't question it. The first cake was about an inch high. Cake #2 is still in the oven so I'll see if the non-greasing idea improved the result.

I won't have time to try a third time tonight but the next attempt would be to rearrange the order of mixing as per nightscotsman. It was hard to say if the beaten butter/sugar was white since they were beaten with the yolk/almond paste mixture.

I'll report the result in a few minutes.

Thanks for your continued input.

ChocoChris

[ChocoChris]

Cake #2 also finished about 15 min. earlier than the book advised. Also came out 1" high. Between the two, I can make the cake any number of layers but I'll stick to 3. I would like to try once more with the changes described above.

So, end result....do I blame myself and remain discouraged? Do I chalk it up to inadequate instruction? You all seem so knowledgeable -- how do you deal with such a situation. I'm fairly discouraged. I've been baking for years but these things really get to me.

Thanks again,

ChocoChris

[nightscotsman]

Don't be too hard on yourself. I like the Chocolate Bible book, but I don't think the recipes are written with quite enough detail and can be a little ambiguous. Good info on chocolate, but not the first I would turn to for a cake recipe.

If you do try again, I would still fold in the eggwhites first. Otherwise, if you fold in the flour first the mixture will be too heavy and will deflate the whites.

If you can bake one that comes out at an inch and a half I would declare success

[Rachel Perlow]

One last suggestion, when was the last time you calibrated your oven temperature? Maybe it's running hot.

[Steve Klc]

Choco--though others seem to like that Teubner book, I do not. Deal with good books, I'd recommend French books when it comes to pastry and baking--but as my wife chefette is fond of saying, only if you enjoy French-style cakes. Many Americans do not find French-style cakes enjoyable. (I do.) Good advice from all contributors to this thread--really good from everyone--Lesley shares a few tips pros don't even think about sometimes.

Folding is one of those things that is problematic for home bakers--that sometimes doesn't get transferred from the printed page as well as watching someone fold properly--and this particular cake recipe (from a book I don't recommend) requires you to fold twice. To the comments about egg size, pre-heating, not over-beating your whites, etc. I'd add--check and double check your oven temp. Seems obvious but your dial may not indicate what your actual temp is--many a home baker has widely varying oven temps--you could be at 325 instead of 375 or 375 instead of 325--with recipes from coffee table books like the Teubner that aren't thoroughly vetted you could be working from "convection" oven temps and trying them in your conventional oven at home, the pitfalls are myriad. So Rachel's tip re: calibration is a good one.

Baking cakes is difficult--or rather, it is not as easy as it seems. You're approaching it with a keen eye--a scientific eye--and that's good, I'm sure you will succeed. Just put the pretty Teubner book back on the shelf.

I'm not a greased sides/springform kind of guy, either. Real pans, rings, smaller cakes in silicone treated papers, or non-stick flexible molds a la Flexipan/Gastroflex.

[Lesley C]

Steve is right about the Teubner book. It's nice (he must be Swiss) but the instructions lack detail. I read through the recipe and the method of folding in the dry ingredients after the whites is absolutely correct (he did not mention lightening the base mixture, though, which is an essential step with almond paste-based cakes).

I'll try it today and report back. You can never have too much cake in the house!

[Steve Klc]

Colleen and I have a wedding cake tonight--an inverted, stacked Frank Lloyd Wright Guggenheim-inspired structure (widest tier on top, narrowest on bottom)--but she was so intrigued by this thread that she's baking this Teubner "torte" as I type this. Her most major artistic parts of the wedding cake--some impeccably thin stained glass windows in sugar--are already done. She'll report back, too, Lesley, on this.

[Suzanne F]

Steve -- any chance you'll be able to post a picture?

[Steve Klc]

Your wish is my command.

[chefette]

OK, I have baked off this cake myself, and you may indeed be deflating your whites. It is not a high cake - comes out about 2" in fact.

I paddled the yolks into the almond paste until smooth then added the butter, half the sugar, and vanilla and creamed that.

I did note that the instructions specify that the whites should be whipped to a stiff peak with the other half sugar.

I had previously combined my flour, ground almonds (I used almond flour) and ground chocolate.

And yes, the instructions do omit the critical add about 1/3 of the whites to the yolk mixture tyo lighten it step prior to folding

Add the lightened yolk mix to the whites, give it a couple of folds then add your flour mix and continue folding gently til combined. It went together very well.

Since you are using a spring form pan I did too. I greased and floured the bottom but not the sides. I did not note any build up of steam that required the oven door to be opened. I left the door closed. It was done in 40 minutes.

Since this is a torte it is supposed to be quite low and the layers thin. I find the ganache filling methodology to be very awkward and overly complicated.

I order to have plenty of ganache for filling and covering I would use 600 grams good dark chocolate (I don't know what you have available to you) Don't use chocolate chips or any of that other baking chocolate stuff. In this case since the ganache chocolate will play a very prominent role in your final cake I would spring for Valhrona 72% so that it will have a nice clear chocolate taste and will not be too sweet. chop it up and melt it in the microwave or over hot water and set it aside. Boil 1 pint heavy cream with about 2 oz light corn syrup. You can add the cream to the chocolate or vice versa stirring in a small tight circle in the center of the bowl (deeper is better than wider) until the chocolate and cream come together in a central 'heart' as a dark glossy center. Keep up your stirring and this will continue to draw in more of the mixture and broaden outwards. Finally scrape the edges and stir it together. When it is cooled so it is about body temperature (maybe 20 minutes) stir in a stick (4oz) or softened butter cut into tablespoons. Cover with plastic and allow it to set in a cool place for at least 4 hours.

Then slice and moisten your cake and fill with the ganache. You will probably want to chill the cake for an hour or two at this point and then cover it with the marzipan.

to glaze it, your cake should be on a cardboard circle no larger that itself set on a wire rack over a nice clean tray with edges to catch excess glaze. You will want to warm your ganache slightly and add enough simple syrup --just a touch really (equal parts sugar and water brought to a boil and cooled) to it so that it will pour nicely. Since you want it to set up you dont want it to be thin and runny so it all just sort of runs off your cake. take a deep breath and confidently pour your glaze over your cake. I find you get nice coverage by pouring it in a circle about 1 inch inside the perimeter of the cake. Don't try the spatula thing since that will just cause more trouble than it is worth (for an amateur). Jiggle the wire rack to get the glaze to evenly fall. Let it sit for about 10 minutes or so so that glaze isn't dripping off it anymore then have your cake presentation plate handy, scoop up the cake carefully with your large offset spatula, swipe up any dribbles of glaze, and place it on your plate.

The melted coverture glazing is not a really workable option. The ganache is your best bet at this point in time I believe.

Good luck! Let's hear all about your final cake.

Yes, we can post pictures of the Frank Lloyd Wright Cake next week.

[ChocoChris]

You are all just awesome. Thanks so very very much for the encouragement and the advice. I've taken it all to heart.

I was monitoring my oven with a thermometer as I know for a fact (repair guy has come out once so far) that the thermostat is loopy. So many variables....Lesley, I'll be interested in your results as well as that of Colleen. Steve I'm dying to see a photo of your amazing creation! Sounds like it should have a thread here when you are finished with it.

[ChocoChris]

THank you again chefette! When I made the cakes, I folded the whites in completely and then the flour completely so maybe that amount of folding deflated the whites. I tried to be gentle but not gentle enough apparently. I will try your technique. THanks for the advice on the ganache. I will be doing that part today.

Again, you all are so great!

ChocoChris

[Rachel Perlow]

This thread is the best example ever of what eGullet is all about!

Can't wait to see pictures of both cakes!

[Sandra Levine]

I had previously combined my flour, ground almonds (I used almond flour) and ground chocolate. 

Do you think the substitution of almond flour for ground almonds made some difference in the final height of the cake?

[Sandra Levine]

This thread is the best example ever of what eGullet is all about!

Rachel, I couldn't agree with you more. No tedious arguments here, just a friendly, informative exchange of experience(s) and knowledge.

[Steve Klc]

Sandra, yes, possibly. Possibly because it's not like the Teubner book is worth much. But almond flour is different from almonds you grind yourself--almond flour has had most of the oil pressed out of it, it is the cake, or what's left over after extracting the oil. It's lighter. Some people prefer it for certain things--others adapt their recipes to accomodate the extra fat of using their own homeground almonds. There's alot of wiggle room here. Me personally, I buy (and prefer) nut flours for baking and for things like dacquoise--it is more consistent and yields a more delicate end product--though I use ground nuts for sprinkling on finished desserts. You can have more control over the size and roast of the nuts if you do it yourself.

[CathyL]

Chefette, adding corn syrup to a ganache intended for glazing is a brilliant idea.

I make ganache in a food processor, whirring the chocolate into fine crumbs and then pouring in hot cream. What are your thoughts about this method?