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Precoating or bottoming the confection


Darienne

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Today I precoated some Divinity and some ganache before dipping them. My first time ever.

However, I guess I let the chocolate get too set because when I cut the precoated slab with the chocolate bottoming on the top, the chocolate shattered at the cuts. I turned it upside down and the same thing happened.

I looked bottoming/precoating up in Greweling and the other books I have with me. Tried various eGullet threads...found a wonderful one by Trishiad, a demo on basic molded chocolates. No one talks about cutting the precoated ganache.

Please some information. :sad:

Darienne

 

learn, learn, learn...

 

We live in hope. 

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Usually when I precoat slabbed ganache, I use melted chocolate, I think Wybauw uses melted not tempered cause set slowly and you can cut easier. Anyway the layer for the precoating is very very thin ( you could use a brush ). The best way is to turn the slab after the chocolate has set a little and cut it on the side that isnt chocolate coated. It should work fine. To precoat round truffles, I usually put a little bit of chocolate on my gloved hand, I roll the truffle ( very lightly ) and put on parchment paper, then when it set I hand dipped them as usual. I hope this help.

Vanessa

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When you precoat you just do the bottom and it is foot side down when cutting with a knife or guitar. The only time I've seen precoating the top was in Belgium and he coated while the slab was sitting on the guitar, then cut immediately while it was still soft - otherwise it shatters. Precoating the top gives more defined edges on the chocolates when you run them through the enrober.

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When you are pre-coating the bottom of your ganache slab, you can also "over-crystallise" the chocolate by spreading it thin with an offset spatula and then working it from side to side until it becomes "pasty" looking rather than "shiny" looking. At this point, the chocolate is over-crystallised and will not snap when you cut through it.

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When you are pre-coating the bottom of your ganache slab, you can also "over-crystallise" the chocolate by spreading it thin with an offset spatula and then working it from side to side until it becomes "pasty" looking rather than "shiny" looking. At this point, the chocolate is over-crystallised and will not snap when you cut through it.

Interesting tip! I'll have to try that. --John

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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When you are pre-coating the bottom of your ganache slab, you can also "over-crystallise" the chocolate by spreading it thin with an offset spatula and then working it from side to side until it becomes "pasty" looking rather than "shiny" looking. At this point, the chocolate is over-crystallised and will not snap when you cut through it.

I don't have enough experience or knowledge to be sure that I understand what you mean. Is it the working of the chocolate which makes it become overcrystallized? I will look in the Wybauw which I have on ILL right now and see if I can find out there. ...... Just read through his section of over-crystallization and must admit frankly that I don't understand it. :blink: ........I'll simply try your method and go from there.

Thanks for trying.

Darienne

 

learn, learn, learn...

 

We live in hope. 

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When you are pre-coating the bottom of your ganache slab, you can also "over-crystallise" the chocolate by spreading it thin with an offset spatula and then working it from side to side until it becomes "pasty" looking rather than "shiny" looking. At this point, the chocolate is over-crystallised and will not snap when you cut through it.

I don't have enough experience or knowledge to be sure that I understand what you mean. Is it the working of the chocolate which makes it become overcrystallized? I will look in the Wybauw which I have on ILL right now and see if I can find out there. ...... Just read through his section of over-crystallization and must admit frankly that I don't understand it. :blink: ........I'll simply try your method and go from there.

Thanks for trying.

Darienne - the three factors in producing temper are time, temperature and agitation. Agitation of the chocolate causes the overcrystallization.

I've probably done this almost every time I've put a foot on the bottom of a ganche, without realizing it. I always use an offset spatula and in my attempts to get a thin foot, usually get the pasty looking foot.

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Darienne - the three factors in producing temper are time, temperature and agitation.  Agitation of the chocolate causes the overcrystallization.

I've probably done this almost every time I've put a foot on the bottom of a ganche, without realizing it.  I always use an offset spatula and in my attempts to get a thin foot, usually get the pasty looking foot.

I put the foot on with a silicone brush and very gently, so perhaps that's why it set so firmly. Of course, I had no idea of when you were supposed to cut it. Learn, learn, learn...

Thanks, Kerry.

Darienne

 

learn, learn, learn...

 

We live in hope. 

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When you are pre-coating the bottom of your ganache slab, you can also "over-crystallise" the chocolate by spreading it thin with an offset spatula and then working it from side to side until it becomes "pasty" looking rather than "shiny" looking. At this point, the chocolate is over-crystallised and will not snap when you cut through it.

I don't have enough experience or knowledge to be sure that I understand what you mean. Is it the working of the chocolate which makes it become overcrystallized? I will look in the Wybauw which I have on ILL right now and see if I can find out there. ...... Just read through his section of over-crystallization and must admit frankly that I don't understand it. :blink: ........I'll simply try your method and go from there.

Thanks for trying.

Darienne - the three factors in producing temper are time, temperature and agitation. Agitation of the chocolate causes the overcrystallization.

I've probably done this almost every time I've put a foot on the bottom of a ganche, without realizing it. I always use an offset spatula and in my attempts to get a thin foot, usually get the pasty looking foot.

Hi Kerry - you probably have over-crystallised each time like you said. When you have a thin layer of chocolate, it doesn't take much working with your off-set spatula (ie., agitation) to over-crystallise it.

Edited to add: I've always been told to pre-bottom with dark chocolate for this reason - its easier to over-crystallise it

Edited by gap (log)
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Darienne, I had this problem the first couple times I tried as well. My two solutions were to score the chocolate with a very sharp paring knife until it breaks cleanly, rather than cutting it in one go, and cutting it as soon as it is firm. I found that if I waited an hour or two it was more susceptible to shattering, whereas if I cut it right away after putting the bottom on it went much easier. I had not thought to deliberately over-crystallize the chocolate to force it out of temper: I was too proud of having a beautifully tempered coating, even if you weren't going to see it! :smile:

Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

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Darienne, I had this problem the first couple times I tried as well. My two solutions were to score the chocolate with a very sharp paring knife until it breaks cleanly, rather than cutting it in one go, and cutting it as soon as it is firm. I found that if I waited an hour or two it was more susceptible to shattering, whereas if I cut it right away after putting the bottom on it went much easier. I had not thought to deliberately over-crystallize the chocolate to force it out of temper: I was too proud of having a beautifully tempered coating, even if you weren't going to see it! :smile:

Thanks for the additional information, Chris. :smile: I'll get it right sooner or later.

Darienne

 

learn, learn, learn...

 

We live in hope. 

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  • 6 months later...

Do you think a rubber stamping brayer would also do the job?

They're about 4 inches wide. If you spread some chocolate onto a parchment, then rolled the brayer through it, you would be able to roll a thin coating onto the bottoms.

Theresa :biggrin:

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

- Abraham Lincoln

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Do you think a rubber stamping brayer would also do the job? 

They're about 4 inches wide.  If you spread some chocolate onto a parchment, then rolled the brayer through it, you would be able to roll a thin coating onto the bottoms.

Theresa :biggrin:

That would probably work. You can also get the printing rollers in varying widths-2", 4", 8", 12", etc.

Jeffrey Stern

www.jeffreygstern.com

http://bit.ly/cKwUL4

http://destination-ecuador.net

cocoapodman at gmail dot com

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I brush mine on with a silicone brush, let it set, and then cut--but I don't use a guitar. I have a "slicing wheel" basically a series of 6 s/s pizza wheels evenly spaced apart on a length of threaded rod.

The wheel gets warmed up in an oven, and if cutting ganache, I can cut the whole thing, if cutting gianduja, I just score the slab and cut with a knife.

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If you're hand dipping, getting a really smooth bottom isn't such an issue. But if you're using an enrober, it's important that the bottom be really smooth from the get-go. I've found using a brush or paint roller (sponge) leaves the texture to rough and spiky, where as a print roller or something really smooth will apply the chocolate and leave it with really smooth surface. Using untempered chocolate prevents any cracking around the edges of the cuts from the guitar wire, whereas tempered chocolate is much too brittle and you end up with imperfect edges at the bottoms, which in turn results in pinholes when using an enrobing machine.

Edited by Marmalade (log)
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Jeffrey Stern

www.jeffreygstern.com

http://bit.ly/cKwUL4

http://destination-ecuador.net

cocoapodman at gmail dot com

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I brush mine on with a silicone brush, let it set, and then cut--but I don't use a guitar. I have a "slicing wheel"  basically a series of 6 s/s pizza wheels evenly spaced apart on a length of threaded rod.

The wheel gets warmed up in an oven, and if cutting ganache, I can cut the whole thing, if cutting gianduja, I just score the slab and cut with a knife.

Sounds brilliant. I take it that you either made it or had it made. A photo or construction instructions would be nice... :smile:

Darienne

 

learn, learn, learn...

 

We live in hope. 

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I'm still trying to get that picture of the chocoalte showpiece on this site! I am hopelessly inept when it comes to anything computer.

Actually Matfer has (or had) such a "rolling pin" Just a series of s/s discs on a rod with handles, thiers sold for something like $300 US in the 2002 catalouge.

Mine is constructed from 6 s/s pizza wheels that I got from the dollar store. I drilled out the rivets that held the discs to the handles. Next I got a length of 3/8" redi-rod from the hardware store. This is just a mild steel rod that is threaded all the way, available at any big box home improvement center or hardware store. The spacing between the wheels is important. The Matfer one includes a zillion plastic washers, for a home made one you can use washers as well or, you can cut 15/16" pieces of 1/2" wood dowel and drill a hole through the center of it. Since the wheels are around 1/16" thick and beveled on both sides, when you use 15/16" spacing, you get 1 inch cuts. Thread the wheels and spacers/washers through the rod. Either cannibilize an old rolling pin or turn your own handles ( I did mine on a wood lathe) and thread this on and secure with nuts, preferably "acorn nuts" or nuts that cover the ends of the threaded rod.

My discs are s/s and the steel redi rod is either covered by wood dowel or handles--it is more or less d/w safe. More importantly, it can withstand some heat-- around 70-80 C and hot steel discs cut through the ganache like butter. It live in my top oven, which I neve turn on but it can get warm in there when my bottom oven runs for a few hours. This is also where I keep my coloured cocoa butters, bulk honey, and various couvetures.

It won't cut through caramel, but I use it to mark the caramel slabs, then cut with a knife. Works a treat on most cookie doughs too--but you have to start in the middle of the sheet and work to either end, if you start at one end, that end will wrap itself around the wheels.

Don't drop it or you'll ding the wheels and ruin the cut. If this ever happens you have to take the whole thing apart, replace or straighten and sharpen the wheel, and re-assemble again.

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I'm still trying to get that picture of the chocoalte showpiece on this site!  I am hopelessly inept when it comes to anything computer.

Actually Matfer has (or had) such a "rolling pin"  Just  a series of s/s discs on a rod with handles, thiers sold for something like $300 US in the 2002 catalouge.

Mine is constructed from 6 s/s pizza wheels that I got from the dollar store.  I drilled out the rivets that held the discs to the handles.  Next I got a length of 3/8" redi-rod from the hardware store.  This is just a mild steel rod that is threaded all the way, available at any big box home improvement center or hardware store.  The spacing between the wheels is important.  The Matfer one includes a zillion plastic washers, for a home made one you can use washers as well or, you can cut 15/16" pieces of 1/2" wood dowel and drill a hole through the center of it.  Since the wheels are around 1/16" thick and beveled on both sides, when you use 15/16" spacing, you get 1 inch cuts.  Thread the wheels and spacers/washers through the rod.  Either cannibilize an old rolling pin or turn your own handles ( I did mine on a wood lathe) and thread this on and secure with nuts, preferably "acorn nuts" or nuts  that cover the ends of the threaded rod.

My discs are s/s and the steel redi rod is either covered by wood dowel or handles--it is more or less d/w safe.  More importantly, it can withstand some heat-- around 70-80 C and hot steel discs cut through the ganache like butter.  It live in my top oven, which I neve turn on but it can get warm in there when my bottom oven runs for a few hours.  This is also where I keep my coloured cocoa butters, bulk honey, and various couvetures.

It won't cut through caramel, but I use it to mark the caramel slabs, then cut with a knife.  Works a treat on most cookie doughs too--but you have to start in the middle of the sheet and work to either end, if you start at one end, that end will wrap itself around the wheels.

Don't drop it or you'll ding the wheels and ruin the cut.  If this ever happens you have to take the whole thing apart, replace or straighten and sharpen the wheel, and re-assemble again.

Hi Edward, Now I will pass your instructions on to my DH, my Edward, and with luck, he can make me one. Thanks so much for going to the trouble. :wub::wub:

Darienne

 

learn, learn, learn...

 

We live in hope. 

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You can buy one of these, or something just like it-they make them for cutting pastry doughs. I found one here http://www.instawares.com/divider-6-wheel-....jr2396.0.7.htm for $23! and they are adjustable-that is, you can adjust the spacing between the wheels and then tighten it down with a wingnut. They're often called dough dividers or dough cutters. I have one and it comes in handy for all kinds of uses. Since they're made of stainless, you can also warm them. Very sturdy too!

Jeffrey Stern

www.jeffreygstern.com

http://bit.ly/cKwUL4

http://destination-ecuador.net

cocoapodman at gmail dot com

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The dividers as you describe are good for pastry, but for ganche, where you want very precise squares, this tool isn't ideal--the wingnut slips and the dividers go out of whack. If the tool is a bit old and the rivets are loose, the dividers are never centered.

That being said....

I have uh..."converted" two sets of dividers. On one set I drilled out the loose rivets and put a wing-nut on each intersection. This way the dividers keep their setting fairly well, once you lock in each individual wingnut.

On another I drilled out the loose rivets and placed a meccano (childrens toy building set, small metal pieces) bar across the dividers and bolted each intersection fixed. This tool is rock-solid and won't move--but I can't re-set the spacing on it.

The wheels are on these tools are fairly small and have a tendancy to wrap around whatever you are cutting. Larger is better in this case of cutting wheels . The rivets also have a nasty habit of working loose, so no matter how tightly you lock in the setting, the wheels still wobble and give innacurate cuts. You can overcome this problem by peening the rivets tight again with a hammer and light taps, but alas! the rivets are soft and will loosen again and again.

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Good observations! :-) I had considered this as a possibility since it was being discussed here, but have never did have the chance to use the pastry cutter on ganache since I have a guitar, so I cannot speak from experience using it on ganache.

However, it's worth noting, I find the wheels in the pasty cutter I own very tightly set in place with almost no noticeable wobble, and I do get very straight lines on whatever I'm cutting. Hand movement and human error definitely are a greater contributor to wobbly lines than the wheels themselves, at least for the one I own. I can't determine what brand I have. I do use the pastry cutter for cutting lines across a thin layer of chocolate placed on transfer sheets, before it sets up, in order to get uniform triangles for pastry decoration, works like a charm.

Jeffrey Stern

www.jeffreygstern.com

http://bit.ly/cKwUL4

http://destination-ecuador.net

cocoapodman at gmail dot com

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