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Chufi

Drink made with avocado and alcohol

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I'm researching an article about, among other things, the Dutch 'drink' advocaat which is a custard with alcohol (recipe and pictures here).

There is a theory that Dutch sailors (in the 17th century?) encountered a drink made with avocado and some sort of alcohol in Latin America. They wanted to make this back home, but lacking avocados, they used eggs as a thickener (but the name stuck - hence, advocaat).

I'm trying to figure out if there is still such a drink somewhere in Latin America (or anywhere else) - an alcoholic thick puree/beverage made with avocados.

Does anyone know of such a thing?

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I have never heard of this origin before although I confess to being no expert on egg liqueurs. Wikipedia backs up the avocado origin but offers no citations and only a couple of references I've never heard of. The folks on the discussion page for the entry seem to think it's bull though. All I can say is that it sounds highly unlikely at best. Occam's Razor would definitely favor Europeans developing a stable eggnog derivative to bottle on their own hook over adapting something made from avocados from half a world away. Also recall that the native populations of the New World had no distillation technology, another strike against that origin.

Of course I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, as I said, I don't actually know. Would be weird as all get-out though.

-Andy


Andy Arrington

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Avocados are native to Central and South America, it was likely being cultivated in the Caribbean by the end of the 17th century, but I rather doubt it was in sufficient quantities to be incorporated into a "traditional" drink there. So, we would likely be talking about South America. Considering that the first rum distillery in North America dates to something like 1664, I have a hard time believing there was sufficient distilled spirit being made or available in South America for such a drink to be popular enough to give rise to advocaat as in imitation. Also, fwiw, Suriname and Recife do not appear to be significant producers of avocado. Doesn't it seem more likely that this drink evolved from the same tradition that gives us egg nog? And that advocaat is related to advocatenborrel?


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And that advocaat is related to advocatenborrel?

What is advocatenborrel?

And while we're on the topic, does anybody here drink/know about advocaat? What are some good brands? What are brands to avoid? What is it's shelf-life? Is it even worth having around? I almost picked some up in Houston last weekend but decided against it. I've never really heard of it being used in cocktails aside from a notable exception of a recipe in Imbibe (the magazine) some time ago where it was used in place of egg in an interpretation of a flip. Wouldn't be the first time I bought a whole bottle of something just for one cocktail.

-Andy


Andy Arrington

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Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

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And that advocaat is related to advocatenborrel?

What is advocatenborrel?

Advocaat ("lawyer") + Borrel ("drink") = Advocatenborrel ("lawyer's drink"?).

Maybe a lot of Dutch lawyers drank egg noggish drinks?


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well the origin of the word avocado is the Nahuatl word ahuacatl, meaning testicle. through all sorts of mishearing and mistranslation it became the Spanish word for lawyer: abogado. and eventually avocado (and sometimes avocado-pear). so, it's not a stretch to think that advocaat would refer to the avocado.

however, it's also true that native populations didn't have a way to distill until the Europeans came, so any sort of avocado-alcohol beverage wouldn't be traditional. many of the native peoples (Inca, Nahuatl, and i believe Aztec) considered the avocado an aphrodisiac (it does look like a big, green testicle). i wouldn't be surprised if they created a avocado beverage, either. however, i just recently done some research on native Latin American foods and didn't come across any such thing (and a quick google search doesn't pull up anything convincing).

if an avocado-alcohol drink did exist in Suriname, i'd guess it was an invention of the Dutch (maybe trying to find a substitute for hard to come by eggs?). i'd think they invented it rather than "came across it" (at least the addition of alcohol). this is just a guess, but maybe they tried to make a version of eggnog with avocados (one of the few New World food items that made a big impression on Europeans) and then reverted back to eggs when they went back to Europe...

or the name could have to do with lawyers. won't convince me until i see a credible citation of any old avocado-based beverage.

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Seems more likely to me that abogado and advocaat are from the Latin advocatus.

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I don't know if it is a South American, Central American or Caribbean tradition, but

I have known a few people over the years who would add alcohol to anything!

Many years ago my then husband and I used to frequent a place in West L.A. called Kelbo's, long gone, but it was one of the many "Island-themed" restaurants, complete with Tiki bar, that were then popular.

(Everyone has heard of Trader Vic's, but there was Latitude 20, the Warehouse on the Pier, etc.)

The bartenders at Kelbo's often had contests to see who could produce the most exotic drink, often taking advice from the bar regulars. My husband tried a drink made with tequila, avocado and chile peppers and thought it would be a good substitute for a Bloody Mary - for those who didn't like tomato.

Then there is THIS

so apparently there are still drink masters who want to expand their horizons.


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

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Advocaat is excellent! And it enjoys a great popularity still in Holland, where it outsells gin and cognac, believe it or not. It is a different beast there: advocaat to a Dutch person in Holland is a just-barely-pourable, very thick drink you give to your granny with a spoon (to eat it - it's so solid drinking ain't gonna happen) at Christmas. The more liquid advocaat the rest of the world knows is almost unavailable in the Netherlands.

In fact, advocaat is so unhip it became retro-fashionable among Scottish bartenders through the excellent messageboard barbore.com. This year I had the great pleasure to welcome a group of Scottish bartenders who had won a who-can-make-the-best-advocaat cocktail contest, self-organised and initially without even a prize (until Maxxium UK, which is based in Scotland, stepped in) to Amsterdam.

Very simply: make a sour. 2 shots advocaat + 1 lemon + half a shot of rich sugar syrup = an instant cheesecake. Add muddled berries and the matching berry liqueur for a blackberry cheesecake, raspberry cheesecake, etc. As I recall, the winning Scottish drink used Mount Gay Extra Old, cinnamon, a dash of vanilla, and was superb.

I've never seen a non-Dutch brand, but most of the big liqueur and / or genever houses (De Kuyper, Wenneker, Bols etc) also make an advocaat, although many don't export. The advocaats are shelf-stable, in my experience. It also makes awesome ice-cream when frozen with liquid nitrogen, should you have some around...

And that advocaat is related to advocatenborrel?

What is advocatenborrel?

And while we're on the topic, does anybody here drink/know about advocaat? What are some good brands? What are brands to avoid? What is it's shelf-life? Is it even worth having around? I almost picked some up in Houston last weekend but decided against it. I've never really heard of it being used in cocktails aside from a notable exception of a recipe in Imbibe (the magazine) some time ago where it was used in place of egg in an interpretation of a flip. Wouldn't be the first time I bought a whole bottle of something just for one cocktail.

-Andy

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I had a brainstorm and went next door to ask my neighbors, who are from Mexico.

Celia gave me this bottle of Rompope a product of Mexico.

gallery_17399_60_77528.jpg

gallery_17399_60_55715.jpg

I found this Wiki article which also mentions Advocaat.

Rompope article

The article notes several other related products.


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

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i thought nardini made something but i can't find the reference. the italians gave the advocaat treatment to high proof amaros like fernet but who knows how old the tradition is. some of the things you think are ancient are mid century modern...


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i wasn't saying that the origins of the words for lawyer (abogado) came from the Nahuatl word for avocado, but the mishearing and association of the Nahuatl word with the spanish word for lawyer...

Isn't the Spanish word for avocado aguacate?

yes... but the path from ahuacatl to avocado (and aguacate, or the portuguese abacate) was serpentine and doubled back on itself a few times. in the literature of the time there are many spellings and variations (seems europeans didn't exactly know what to call the green pear-shaped fruit), some of which are homonyms for the spanish word for lawyer: abogado (which i'm sure came from the latin).

it doesn't seem much of a jump to advocaat. not that i've found any evidence that there's a relationship between advocaat and avocados, nor evidence that there ever was an alcoholic drink made from whipped avocados (and not that i've done a whole lot of research on the subject).

it's all interesting, though, if unlikely. just wondering if anyone has actually heard of an alcoholic avocado drink... the mythical missing link.


Edited by lostmyshape (log)

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seems like the avocado story may be true. according to the Verpoorten company, Eugen Verpoorten invented the company's eggnog recipe in 1876, based on generations of Dutch recipes and originally on a drink the Dutch invented by adding alcohol to an avocado drink made by Tupi Guarani Indians in what is now Brazil (and maybe Suriname Guyana, etc.).

its all right here:http://www.verpoorten.de/C1256CEF0045B53A/...5KTKBB273MSEREN.

i'll ask my Latin American history professor if he's ever heard of an avacado drink (he studies indigenous South American populations), but it looks legit on the surface.

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Advocaat is excellent! And it enjoys a great popularity still in Holland, where it outsells gin and cognac, believe it or not. It is a different beast there: advocaat to a Dutch person in Holland is a just-barely-pourable, very thick drink you give to your granny with a spoon (to eat it - it's so solid drinking ain't gonna happen) at Christmas. The more liquid advocaat the rest of the world knows is almost unavailable in the Netherlands.

In fact, advocaat is so unhip it became retro-fashionable among Scottish bartenders through the excellent messageboard barbore.com. This year I had the great pleasure to welcome a group of Scottish bartenders who had won a who-can-make-the-best-advocaat cocktail contest, self-organised and initially without even a prize (until Maxxium UK, which is based in Scotland, stepped in) to Amsterdam.

Very simply: make a sour. 2 shots advocaat + 1 lemon + half a shot of rich sugar syrup = an instant cheesecake. Add muddled berries and the matching berry liqueur for a blackberry cheesecake, raspberry cheesecake, etc. As I recall, the winning Scottish drink used Mount Gay Extra Old, cinnamon, a dash of vanilla, and was superb.

I've never seen a non-Dutch brand, but most of the big liqueur and / or genever houses (De Kuyper, Wenneker, Bols etc) also make an advocaat, although many don't export. The advocaats are shelf-stable, in my experience. It also makes awesome ice-cream when frozen with liquid nitrogen, should you have some around...

And that advocaat is related to advocatenborrel?

What is advocatenborrel?

And while we're on the topic, does anybody here drink/know about advocaat? What are some good brands? What are brands to avoid? What is it's shelf-life? Is it even worth having around? I almost picked some up in Houston last weekend but decided against it. I've never really heard of it being used in cocktails aside from a notable exception of a recipe in Imbibe (the magazine) some time ago where it was used in place of egg in an interpretation of a flip. Wouldn't be the first time I bought a whole bottle of something just for one cocktail.

-Andy

Thanks for the info. How does the Bols Advocaat available in the US compare in the quality spectrum? Is there any imported brand that you would recommend instead (or is that in fact imported)?


Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

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I don't of any brands that aren't made in Holland, but there's no necessity for it to be made there. excellent chance of seeing advocaat or something like that in the Caribbean or South America due to colonies such as the Dutch and Portuguese ones. A popular Caribbean variation is Ponche de Kuba, which is a sort of rum advocaat, drunk straight by the laydeez or with rum by the men. I'd be fairly sure they make soemthing advocaat-y in Argentina and/or Brazil because of the Dutch trading links and the enormous adoption of Dutch liqueurs and genever there - Argentina is the second world market for genever outside the Benelux, plus they love sweet, creamy liqueurs like Dulce de Leche and so on.

I wasn't aware there was a Bols US advocaat, but I'm sure it's not madly different from any other standard one. The variations might be sweetness (adjusted by the marketeers to fit local tastes) and legislative (advocaat sold in Germany can't be coloured with a particular colourant, hence it is a pale colour compared to the bright egg-yolk color of advocaat sold elsewhere).

I myself love the advocaat of Filliers, a Belgian firm that make the malt wine for just about every major Dutch genever. It's tasty, strong and very well balanced. I also greatly enjoyed the Bols advocaat they make/made in South Africa. SA law states all liqueurs have to be a minimum of 25% ABV, AND it's based on wine distillate, not grain. Delicious!

Advocaat is excellent! And it enjoys a great popularity still in Holland, where it outsells gin and cognac, believe it or not. It is a different beast there: advocaat to a Dutch person in Holland is a just-barely-pourable, very thick drink you give to your granny with a spoon (to eat it - it's so solid drinking ain't gonna happen) at Christmas. The more liquid advocaat the rest of the world knows is almost unavailable in the Netherlands.

In fact, advocaat is so unhip it became retro-fashionable among Scottish bartenders through the excellent messageboard barbore.com. This year I had the great pleasure to welcome a group of Scottish bartenders who had won a who-can-make-the-best-advocaat cocktail contest, self-organised and initially without even a prize (until Maxxium UK, which is based in Scotland, stepped in) to Amsterdam.

Very simply: make a sour. 2 shots advocaat + 1 lemon + half a shot of rich sugar syrup = an instant cheesecake. Add muddled berries and the matching berry liqueur for a blackberry cheesecake, raspberry cheesecake, etc. As I recall, the winning Scottish drink used Mount Gay Extra Old, cinnamon, a dash of vanilla, and was superb.

I've never seen a non-Dutch brand, but most of the big liqueur and / or genever houses (De Kuyper, Wenneker, Bols etc) also make an advocaat, although many don't export. The advocaats are shelf-stable, in my experience. It also makes awesome ice-cream when frozen with liquid nitrogen, should you have some around...

And that advocaat is related to advocatenborrel?

What is advocatenborrel?

And while we're on the topic, does anybody here drink/know about advocaat? What are some good brands? What are brands to avoid? What is it's shelf-life? Is it even worth having around? I almost picked some up in Houston last weekend but decided against it. I've never really heard of it being used in cocktails aside from a notable exception of a recipe in Imbibe (the magazine) some time ago where it was used in place of egg in an interpretation of a flip. Wouldn't be the first time I bought a whole bottle of something just for one cocktail.

-Andy

Thanks for the info. How does the Bols Advocaat available in the US compare in the quality spectrum? Is there any imported brand that you would recommend instead (or is that in fact imported)?

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btw, very interesting to learn that advocaat is apparently 'on the map' in cocktail circles.

For most Dutch people, advocaat with whipped cream is what elderly ladies in nursing homes have as their Sunday treat. A concept far away from the advocaat cocktails described here :wink:


Edited by Chufi (log)

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Don't know if it is what you are looking for, but I have had a Avacado margaritta in Austin which was excellent. It tasted mostly like avacado, lime juice, cilantro and tequilla.


Edited by jonnyCinco (log)

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thanks everyone, this is all really helpful.

lostmyshape, thanks for digging up that Verpoorten link, I hadn't found it in my google quests.

The Verpooten story appears however to be just a story. There were apparently no avocado's in Brazil in 1654 - they were not introduced into Brazil until 1809.(see RJ Knights paper History, Distribution and Uses in Whitely and Schaffer's The Avocado:Botany ,Production and Uses.

There is no reference in any of the papers in this book, which "summarises avocado science at the beginning of the 21st Century" to either current or historical use of avocados in alcoholic beverages. I'd be pretty certain that there is no tradition at all of such drinks.

Gethin


Edited by gethin (log)

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The Verpooten story appears  however  to be just a story. There were apparently  no avocado's in Brazil in 1654 - they were not introduced into Brazil until 1809.(see RJ Knights paper History, Distribution and Uses in Whitely and Schaffer's  The Avocado:Botany ,Production and Uses.

There is no reference in any of the papers in this book, which "summarises avocado science at the beginning of the 21st Century" to either current or historical use of avocados in alcoholic beverages.  I'd be pretty certain that there is no tradition at all of such drinks.

Gethin

yeah... some of that Verpooten story seems questionable, but avocados made the trip from Central America (and Mexico) to the Caribbean right around the same time as the Dutch were colonizing there (and in Suriname and Brazil) in the early 17th century. they most definitely would have come in contact with the fruit by 1654. i'll do a little more research and see what i can find (i'm taking a graduate seminar on peasant rebellion in Latin America right now).

still no credible sources that say there was a avocado drink, alcoholic or not.

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The Verpooten story appears  however  to be just a story. There were apparently  no avocado's in Brazil in 1654 - they were not introduced into Brazil until 1809.(see RJ Knights paper History, Distribution and Uses in Whitely and Schaffer's  The Avocado:Botany ,Production and Uses.

There is no reference in any of the papers in this book, which "summarises avocado science at the beginning of the 21st Century" to either current or historical use of avocados in alcoholic beverages.  I'd be pretty certain that there is no tradition at all of such drinks.

Gethin

yeah... some of that Verpooten story seems questionable, but avocados made the trip from Central America (and Mexico) to the Caribbean right around the same time as the Dutch were colonizing there (and in Suriname and Brazil) in the early 17th century. they most definitely would have come in contact with the fruit by 1654. i'll do a little more research and see what i can find (i'm taking a graduate seminar on peasant rebellion in Latin America right now).

still no credible sources that say there was a avocado drink, alcoholic or not.

I don't know how far back the "recipe" goes, but I checked with a friend who tended bar on cruise ships for decades and he says that in Trinidad and Tobago they make one of the eggnog type drinks, but for people that are allergic to eggs they do use avocado to thicken it. Two types of rum, cream or a combination of evaporated milk and sweetened condensed milk, Angostura bitters, sugar (if using fresh cream) eggs with extra egg yolks, lime zest topped with grated nutmeg.

The eggs are cooked in the cream and/or canned milks, chilled and beaten into the rum and served in a punch bowl. Ponche de Creme.

If they have patrons who can't or won't consume eggs, they use very ripe avocado, scraping off most of the green part, mashing it through a sieve and beating it into the milk or cream

It is usually served during holidays and he says it does indeed pack a punch.

In the Yucatan he has sampled several drinks made with avocado combined with other fruits and coconut and usually the liquor was pulque or mezcal.

Perhaps someone should write to Rick Bayless and see if he knows anything on the subject.


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

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In fact, advocaat is so unhip it became retro-fashionable among Scottish bartenders through the excellent messageboard barbore.com. This year I had the great pleasure to welcome a group of Scottish bartenders who had won a who-can-make-the-best-advocaat cocktail contest, self-organised and initially without even a prize (until Maxxium UK, which is based in Scotland, stepped in) to Amsterdam.

That'll have been me and Mal Spence! :biggrin:

Highly recommend a trip to the BOLS academy in Amsterdam if you're in the area, especially now that Phil's opening his own place as well.


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I'm researching an article about, among other things, the Dutch 'drink' advocaat which is a custard with alcohol (recipe and pictures here).

There is a theory that Dutch sailors (in the 17th century?) encountered a drink made with avocado and some sort of alcohol in Latin America. They wanted to make this back home, but lacking avocados, they used eggs as a thickener (but the name stuck - hence, advocaat).

I'm trying to figure out if there is still such a drink somewhere in Latin America (or anywhere else)  - an alcoholic thick puree/beverage made with avocados.

Does anyone know of such a thing?

A bit more hunting round on the web reveals that Suriname Alcoholic Berverages NV make a product called Ponche Campos which they describe as :

" Suriname's original cream liqueur based on our rich tradition but made according to the highest standards of the 21st century.

This scrumptious blend of rum, brandy, cream, caramel and avocado is scintillating when served chilled and is remarkable as the finishing touch for complicated deserts and other confectionary."

Sounds horrid !

It seems likely to me thast Lostmyshape was correct in suggesting upthread that advocat preceded any avacado thickened drink and that the avacado was a substitute for egg rather than it being the other way around.

gethin

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When I was in Brazil, I saw avocados the size of one's head. They were huge - and generally bland.

Lime, avocado and sugar are mixed in a blender to make a favorite dessert: creme de abacate. I also saw avocado ice cream, which suggests to me that adding alcohol - cachaça or rum - is a play that needs to be made.


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