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Airs


asult316
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I need help, i want to sprouce up my mango gazpacho dish and i wanna create an air or foam to go on top for effect, anyone have any good ideas of liek what to use to enhance the flavor or what i could use to make the air and a recipe?

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There are a number of ways you can go.

For airs, I use "Lecite" (Lecithin).

One possibility would be first to make a clear mango "consomme" (puree, add gel, freeze, thaw in fridge), sweeten it if you think it needs it for your dish, add the lecithin (.25-.5%), and follow the directions in the http://khymos.org/recipe-collection.php.

Let me know if you need more guidance or if that wasn't the kind of thing you were thinking of... (You could of course also just buy frozen mango juice and use that w/ the lecithin...)

Best,

jk

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It's hard to say without knowing what ingredients you use in the dish.

The air can be constructed to either complement or contrast with the other flavors.

I'd assume if the gazpacho is mango, it may be quite sweet so you may not want more mango in the air. Perhaps the lime air from el Bulli (also in Khymos' hydrocolloid recipe book, p. 34) might provide the contrast you need.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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It's hard to say without knowing what ingredients you use in the dish.

The air can be constructed to either complement or contrast with the other flavors.

I'd assume if the gazpacho is mango, it may be quite sweet so you may not want more mango in the air. Perhaps the lime air from el Bulli (also in Khymos' hydrocolloid recipe book, p. 34) might provide the contrast you need.

my gazpacho is an asian style one i am making. The ingredients are:

Fresh Mango

Orange Juice

Sesame Oil

Cucumber

Red Pepper

Red Onion

Garlic

Thai Bird Beak Pepper

Fresh Lime Juice

Cilantro

Star Anise

S&P

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Sounds tasty.

I'd still try the lime air: perhaps given the Thai influence, you could also add a bit of chili or lemon grass?

i like the lime air idea actually thanks.....if anyone has any other ideas please let me know, im interested for the future

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Sounds tasty.

I'd still try the lime air: perhaps given the Thai influence, you could also add a bit of chili or lemon grass?

i like the lime air idea actually thanks.....if anyone has any other ideas please let me know, im interested for the future

How about a coconut milk air?

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Sounds tasty.

I'd still try the lime air: perhaps given the Thai influence, you could also add a bit of chili or lemon grass?

i like the lime air idea actually thanks.....if anyone has any other ideas please let me know, im interested for the future

How about a coconut milk air?

would coconut milk be too overpowering for the mango?

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Sounds tasty.

I'd still try the lime air: perhaps given the Thai influence, you could also add a bit of chili or lemon grass?

i like the lime air idea actually thanks.....if anyone has any other ideas please let me know, im interested for the future

How about a coconut milk air?

would coconut milk be too overpowering for the mango?

I figured the intensity ofthe coconut milk would be decreased in air form - so it would be a good counterbalance of the fruityness of the gazpacho...

edit - plus I think the color contrast would be nice too...

edit - or you can do a play on the Thai dessert mango and sticky rice where the sticky rice is soaked in coconut milk and sweetened with palm sugar... so the air could be a slightly sweetened coconut flavor...

Edited by KennethT (log)
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Sounds tasty.

I'd still try the lime air: perhaps given the Thai influence, you could also add a bit of chili or lemon grass?

i like the lime air idea actually thanks.....if anyone has any other ideas please let me know, im interested for the future

How about a coconut milk air?

would coconut milk be too overpowering for the mango?

I figured the intensity ofthe coconut milk would be decreased in air form - so it would be a good counterbalance of the fruityness of the gazpacho...

edit - plus I think the color contrast would be nice too...

edit - or you can do a play on the Thai dessert mango and sticky rice where the sticky rice is soaked in coconut milk and sweetened with palm sugar... so the air could be a slightly sweetened coconut flavor...

thats an interesting idea actually, i kinda like it. would u have like a recipe so that i can try it?

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I like the idea of a lime air, but why not make it a kaffir lime or kalamansi air? A more nuanced lime flavor would complement the dish, as well as provide a specifically asian ingredient connection. Kaffir leaves are fairly easy to find, kalamansi might be a challenge if you're not in an urban area with a Filipino population or good asian markets. You could even steep the kaffir leaves in coconut milk...

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I like the idea of a lime air, but why not make it a kaffir lime or kalamansi air?  A more nuanced lime flavor would complement the dish, as well as provide a specifically asian ingredient connection.  Kaffir leaves are fairly easy to find, kalamansi might be a challenge if you're not in an urban area with a Filipino population or good asian markets.  You could even steep the kaffir leaves in coconut milk...

sounds interesting.......where would i find kaffir leaves and how would i make an air our of it? ive never seen them in the stores by my house and i live in like an asian area

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I like the idea of a lime air, but why not make it a kaffir lime or kalamansi air?  A more nuanced lime flavor would complement the dish, as well as provide a specifically asian ingredient connection.  Kaffir leaves are fairly easy to find, kalamansi might be a challenge if you're not in an urban area with a Filipino population or good asian markets.  You could even steep the kaffir leaves in coconut milk...

I actually love the idea of the kaffir lime scented coconut air...

I wouldn't have a recipe because I typically don't work with recipes... but kaffir lime is a leaf from the kaffir lime tree... you can usually find them either fresh or frozen (they freeze great) in an indian or asian grocery... whatever you don't use, just stick in a ziplock bag in the freezer... you don't really want to eat the kaffir lime leaves (they're pretty tough) unless you mince it into fine pieces or chiffonade... but what I like to do is to cut it into strips and simmer them in the coconut milk for about 10-20 minutes... you can't miss their aroma... then just strain them out...

edit - the fresh ones would be in the refrigerated case...

Edited by KennethT (log)
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I like the idea of a lime air, but why not make it a kaffir lime or kalamansi air?  A more nuanced lime flavor would complement the dish, as well as provide a specifically asian ingredient connection.  Kaffir leaves are fairly easy to find, kalamansi might be a challenge if you're not in an urban area with a Filipino population or good asian markets.  You could even steep the kaffir leaves in coconut milk...

I actually love the idea of the kaffir lime scented coconut air...

I wouldn't have a recipe because I typically don't work with recipes... but kaffir lime is a leaf from the kaffir lime tree... you can usually find them either fresh or frozen (they freeze great) in an indian or asian grocery... whatever you don't use, just stick in a ziplock bag in the freezer... you don't really want to eat the kaffir lime leaves (they're pretty tough) unless you mince it into fine pieces or chiffonade... but what I like to do is to cut it into strips and simmer them in the coconut milk for about 10-20 minutes... you can't miss their aroma... then just strain them out...

edit - the fresh ones would be in the refrigerated case...

i generally dont work with recipies either its just that i am fairly new in the molecular gastronomy world so i am not too comfortable in messing around on my own yet because like i dont know ratios or what i am "looking for" in a good stable air, etc....

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I like the idea of a lime air, but why not make it a kaffir lime or kalamansi air?  A more nuanced lime flavor would complement the dish, as well as provide a specifically asian ingredient connection.  Kaffir leaves are fairly easy to find, kalamansi might be a challenge if you're not in an urban area with a Filipino population or good asian markets.  You could even steep the kaffir leaves in coconut milk...

I actually love the idea of the kaffir lime scented coconut air...

I wouldn't have a recipe because I typically don't work with recipes... but kaffir lime is a leaf from the kaffir lime tree... you can usually find them either fresh or frozen (they freeze great) in an indian or asian grocery... whatever you don't use, just stick in a ziplock bag in the freezer... you don't really want to eat the kaffir lime leaves (they're pretty tough) unless you mince it into fine pieces or chiffonade... but what I like to do is to cut it into strips and simmer them in the coconut milk for about 10-20 minutes... you can't miss their aroma... then just strain them out...

edit - the fresh ones would be in the refrigerated case...

i generally dont work with recipies either its just that i am fairly new in the molecular gastronomy world so i am not too comfortable in messing around on my own yet because like i dont know ratios or what i am "looking for" in a good stable air, etc....

I'm still toying with the mol. gast. also - I really haven't gotten that into it yet... just played around with agar agar making hot foams with an ISI whipper...

There's a great link to the khymos website which gives lots of example recipes with all different types of hydrocolloids... I don't remember if the link is at the top of this post or not... but you can do a search for it and then download the pdf...

edit - yes, the link was posted by Jonathan Kaplan at the top of the post...

Edited by KennethT (log)
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is there some kind of general rule of thumb when it comes to making these airs like a specific ratio if its a water based liquid or a cream based liquid, because i am going to try the coconut milk air with the kaffir limes but im not sure how much lecithin i need to use and i am really unsure of what the air is suppose to look like if done correctly.

Edited by asult316 (log)
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I dont know why people keep calling foam air. Something isn't and "air" until you vaporize it. Just because you are trapping air inside peptid and lipid bonds doesn't make it "air" it is just aerated.

Sorry, I am a bitch when it comes to language, but is there anyway we can continue to call it a "foam" until has particle dispersion and properties of what is actually "air" or a "gas".

The main reason I ask this is because it is possible to make flavored air, but no one does this, as far as I know. Something that I would like to start working on in the future. But the thing is, with the air you would still have to trap it. So if the product inside the trapping is the flavor, then call it air, but if the trapping itself is the flavor, we should call it foam.

Thank you. :biggrin:

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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I dont know why people keep calling foam air.  Something isn't and "air" until you vaporize it.  Just because you are trapping air inside peptid and lipid bonds doesn't make it "air" it is just aerated.

...

The air and foam terminology is one minted at Ell Bulli if I remember correctly. To distinguish between ISI whipper foams (espumas in spanish) and the much lighter foams you get with lecitin and an immersion blender, they came up with the name "air" for the latter. And of course it sounds cool on a menu too. Even if it isn't strightly an "air", I'm ok with the terminology.

Edit: I've actually had real scented air accompanying a resturant dish once. It was liqorice air that came in big plastic bags together with a scallop dish. The bags had small holes cut in them and was placed under light pressure when the dish was served.

So, ok, there might be a terminology problem.

Edited by TheSwede (log)
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I dont know why people keep calling foam air.  Something isn't and "air" until you vaporize it.  Just because you are trapping air inside peptid and lipid bonds doesn't make it "air" it is just aerated.

Sorry, I am a bitch when it comes to language, but is there anyway we can continue to call it a "foam" until has particle dispersion and properties of what is actually "air" or a "gas".

The main reason I ask this is because it is possible to make flavored air, but no one does this, as far as I know.  Something that I would like to start working on in the future.  But the thing is, with the air you would still have to trap it.  So if the product inside the trapping is the flavor, then call it air, but if the trapping itself is the flavor, we should call it foam.

Thank you.  :biggrin:

ok well whatever it is i am trying to achieve, wether it is "air" or "foam" what is the best way to achieve what i am looking for....i want to make an aromatic, light tasting cool texture for my mango gazpacho. now i want to make it like in the youtube video

it looks like a tight stable foam/air. i like the kaffir limes with coconut milk, anyone know what is the best procedure the best results.

btw i have to present this this week so any help would be much appreciated thanks = )

Edited by asult316 (log)
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I dont know why people keep calling foam air.  Something isn't and "air" until you vaporize it.  Just because you are trapping air inside peptid and lipid bonds doesn't make it "air" it is just aerated.

Sorry, I am a bitch when it comes to language, but is there anyway we can continue to call it a "foam" until has particle dispersion and properties of what is actually "air" or a "gas".

The main reason I ask this is because it is possible to make flavored air, but no one does this, as far as I know.  Something that I would like to start working on in the future.  But the thing is, with the air you would still have to trap it.  So if the product inside the trapping is the flavor, then call it air, but if the trapping itself is the flavor, we should call it foam.

Thank you.  :biggrin:

ok well whatever it is i am trying to achieve, wether it is "air" or "foam" what is the best way to achieve what i am looking for....i want to make an aromatic, light tasting cool texture for my mango gazpacho. now i want to make it like in the youtube video

it looks like a tight stable foam/air. i like the kaffir limes with coconut milk, anyone know what is the best procedure the best results.

I don't know for sure, but underneath the YouTube video, someone recommended using 2g lecithin per 100ml of liquid... But I don't know how additional fats would add to or take away from the foaming properties of the lecithin... I think the best way is just to try it... why don't you start out with 100ml of coconut milk add maybe 4-6 kaffir lime leaf pairs (torn or chiffonade), warm it and gently simmer for 20 min. or so to infuse the flavor... then strain and cool to room temp. (I don't know how the lecithin works at different temps)... then add 1g of lecithin and start blending... if the foam isn't what you want, add .25g more, and keep doing that until you start seeing results that you like... then report back with how much lecithin it took to foam the coconut milk!! haha... Seriously, I'd imagine that liquids with a higher fat content (cream, coconut milk, etc) would require less lecithin than making stable foams out of liquids with no fat ie beet juice or lime juice since you can make a foam out of cold cream with no lecithin (whipped cream)... but this is just a hypothesis - the real way to do it is to try it... I'd try it for you, but I can't find an easy place to find the lecithin in NYC without having to go to the internet...

Hope this helps and good luck!!!

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FWIW, lecithin is easily found in most health food stores, though usually in granular or liquid form, rather than powdered. To me, 2g for 100ml of liquid (i.e., 2%) seems a little on the high side, but I agree that the proportions may vary widely with differing fat contents. I suspect that you'd need more lecithin with a fat-water blend, since some of it will actually be used to emulsify the two. But that's just a guess.

Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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FWIW, lecithin is easily found in most health food stores, though usually in granular or liquid form, rather than powdered. To me, 2g for 100ml of liquid (i.e., 2%) seems a little on the high side, but I agree that the proportions may vary widely with differing fat contents. I suspect that you'd need more lecithin with a fat-water blend, since some of it will actually be used to emulsify the two. But that's just a guess.

Interesting... thanks - I'll check it out... I don't know about the proportions either... I understand what you mean about some being used as an emulsifier (like a salad dressing) but what about a fat/liquid blend that is already emulsified - like heavy cream?

According to the information on the Khymos recipes (linked at the top), making a lime air (just lime juice and water - recipe from texturas el bulli) uses 1.5g lecithin for 500ml liquid - which is 0.3%... a parmesan air (water and parmegiano) uses 0.52% lecithin (1.3g for every 250ml parmesan liquid)... other liquids like mixtures with milk or water/oil mixes use around 0.85% (5g per 570ml) lecithin... so your theory definitely seems to apply - the more fat in the mixture, the more lecithin you'd need...

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sorry kenneth, I didnt bother answering your question because the topic was so long already I didnt read and figured someone answered already.

You can achieve a foam like that with soy lecithin, methyl cel or xanthan. Just bur mix until you have enough foam an scoop it off.

on the other hand poly glycol will allow you (in conjunction with methyl cel or xanthan) to get a very smooth foam that is really unlike any others.

Versa whip is tremendously easy to use. Just add about 1.5% to any liquid and whip it like egg whites.

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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Versa whip is tremendously easy to use.  Just add about 1.5% to any liquid and whip it like egg whites.

Does Versawhip work with bases that contain fat?

i cant for the life of me find the kaffir leaves.. is there anything i can use in substitute?

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