Seasoning Carbon Steel Pans

[rotuts]

@lindag 

 

I don't see what's different about the FSO you mentioned , other than the label , than what's available in vitamin / health food stores

 

one very near me offers an organic FSO for $ 10  for 8 oz

 

which is more than a lifetime supply for cast iron.

 

once the oil completely polymerizes  i.e. ' dries '  is does not go rancid

 

rancid is simply oxidation with regard to oils.

 

the EVOO you leave on the counter rather than refrigerate goes rancid  i.e. oxidizes 

 

it gives it a a very different taste.   it is not toxic, just doestnt taste as good.

 

any oil you keep in the cupboard for any length of time oxidizes 

[TicTac]

While I appreciate the concern about my sourcing/cost of said oil, with that aside, I was simply curious what others who own a Matfer have successfully used.

[btbyrd]

I have successfully used lard, walnut oil, and olive oil on my Matfer.

[TicTac]

Olive oil???  Is that not far too low a smoke point?

[btbyrd]

That product is more snake oil than anything else.

 

Flax seed oil -- even magical organic, cold-pressed oil -- has a fatty acid profile that makes it prone to oxidation and rancidity. That's why the higher quality flax oils are in the refrigerated section. "Will never go rancid"? Ha! It'll go rancid before pretty much any oil in your kitchen.

 

Flax is already an expensive uni-tasking oil, but the pricetag on this oil is astronomical. $15 for four ounces? Get out of here.

 

The product description claims that flax is "the only drying oil that's edible." This is patently false. Walnut oil is another drying oil, and has a fatty acid composition similar to flax. And it actually tastes good.

 

If you buy into the "gotta use a drying oil to season pans" mumbo jumbo, use walnut instead. When I last seasoned my pans, I was making salads dressed with walnut oil vinaigrettes every day for lunch for like a month. It was kinda nice, actually. 

[btbyrd]

Have you checked the smoke point of flax oil lately?

 

I use refined "extra light" olive oil as my neutral cooking oil, and that's what I use to season with (though I'll use EVOO sometimes if that's what's nearby). The smoke point of extra light olive oil is around 470F.

 

I don't think that an oil's smoke point is a reliable indicator of its ability to season pans (provided that you're not using something like avocado oil that has a smoke point higher than your oven might go).

Edited May 20, 2017 by btbyrd (log)

[Anna N]

2 minutes ago, btbyrd said:

Have you checked the smoke point of flax oil lately?

 

I use refined "extra light" olive oil as my neutral cooking oil, and that's what I use to season with (though I'll use EVOO sometimes if that's what's nearby). The smoke point of extra light olive oil is around 470F.

 

I don't think that an oil's smoke point is a reliable indicator of anything related to ability to season pans (provided that you're not picking something like avocado oil that has a smoke point higher than your oven might go).

Apparently I am not alone in sometimes finding it difficult to separate the different objectives of oils for cooking and oils for seasoning. One rarely wants an oil to reach smoke point if it is for cooking purposes. But when one is trying to "polymerize" an oil I am making the assumption that smoking is not such a bad thing.  I love walnut oil but it has never occurred to me to cook with it nor to season anything with it. 

[palo]

@btbyrd

What's a "drying oil", does it take the water out of things? Dehydrate?

 

p

[Barrytm]

Tictac,  I have used flaxseed, and  canola oil   on my Matfer.  I did not say successfully, because while I followed the instructions about using the potato skins and canola oil and salt and built up a beautiful seasoning, a few weeks later I deglazed the pan with some wine, and lost most of the seasoning.  I then stripped it, and did the thin coat of flaxseed, bake for hour at 400, then repeat numerous times ,  and within a week or two ,  had pieces of the seasoning come off stuck to food.  Stripped again and repeated the canola oil with potato skins and salt, and again had issues with the seasoning coming off in places with use.  Now mine is pretty blotchy, and I have seen photos of others who have the same issue.  

[btbyrd]

 

On 5/20/2017 at 7:39 PM, palo said:

@btbyrd

What's a "drying oil", does it take the water out of things? Dehydrate?

 

Drying oils will eventually harden if exposed to air at room temperature. They are super-unsaturated and therefore oxidize, crosslink, and go rancid quickly. This gives them some interesting functional properties that make them good bases for oil pants and varnishes. Some people think these properties also make them magical seasoning oils for cast iron and carbon steel. And they may be marginally better than alternatives -- maybe. But I've not personally found them to offer any advantages and wouldn't recommend anyone bother to spend the effort (or money) to track them down. Especially since they can leve a brittle layer of seasoning that is liable to flake off.

[paulraphael]

Drying oils are also the ones responsible for the dangerous reputation of oily rags. As the oils oxidize and harden, they give off heat. In a cabinetmaking shop, where a messy worker might throw used rags soaked with linseed oil into a pile, that pile can offer enough insulation for heat to build up and cause spontaneous combustion. Maybe not so likely in the kitchen.

[rotuts]

re: flaking of flaxseed oil , consider :

 

 

[TicTac]

On 5/21/2017 at 8:21 AM, Barrytm said:

Tictac,  I have used flaxseed, and  canola oil   on my Matfer.  I did not say successfully, because while I followed the instructions about using the potato skins and canola oil and salt and built up a beautiful seasoning, a few weeks later I deglazed the pan with some wine, and lost most of the seasoning.  I then stripped it, and did the thin coat of flaxseed, bake for hour at 400, then repeat numerous times ,  and within a week or two ,  had pieces of the seasoning come off stuck to food.  Stripped again and repeated the canola oil with potato skins and salt, and again had issues with the seasoning coming off in places with use.  Now mine is pretty blotchy, and I have seen photos of others who have the same issue.  

 

Sounds like a very similar experience, Barry.

 

I am contemplating contacting the manufacturer as I cannot say I am impressed by the pan, given the glorious reviews by Cooks Illustrated (perhaps some 'pans' exchanged hands to ascertain said marketing....).

 

 

[paulraphael]

1 hour ago, rotuts said:

I doubt that you need to go to the smoke point for oils to polymerize  

 

You certainly don't, but if the coating is pure polymerized oil you'll have the stickiest pan you've ever used.

 

What makes the coating slick (and black) is carbonized oil embedded in the polymer. You get that from burning some of the compounds in the oil.

[rotuts]

possibly

 

but linseed oil , AKA flax seed oil has been used as a finish for wood for a long long long time.

 

it gets the job done at room temp, on wood.   after 24 - 48 hours its completely cured and hard as a rock.

 

then again , wood's not carbon steel.

 

I doubt the oil can tell the difference

[rotuts]

one other small item of note :  in woodworking , after your coat of polymerizing oil is completely cured

 

one gently sands the surface w 600 W/D sandpaper  or 0000 steel wool to very lightly roughen the surface.

 

one uses a tack cloth , which you can make on your own , to remove all the dust etc

 

the second and future coats adhere much better

 

wondering if this has something to do w people getting flak off ?

 

A surface too smooth ?   

 

Id still put very little money on not having a completely cured surface somewhere in your layers.

[paulraphael]

1 hour ago, rotuts said:

possibly

 

but linseed oil , AKA flax seed oil has been used as a finish for wood for a long long long time.

 

It's easy to demonstrate. If you take an unseasoned carbon steel pan, oil it and heat just to the point of polymerization, you'll get a translucent brown coating. And everything will stick to it tenaciously. The blackness that we associate with a seasoned pan, and the slippery qualities, both come from the soot.

[kayb]

Which begs the question for me, as I plan to take up seasoning my carbon steel pans tomorrow.

 

How long do I need to leave the pans on high heat/in a hot oven -- and how high/hot? -- after they begin smoking? I'd just as soon not have to disable the smoke detector, but if I need to I will.

 

[rotuts]

if your coating is thin enough , there is very little smoke

 

turn the heat off after the smoking begins to subside.

 

let them cool completely to room temp.

 

I think that last step is important  but can't prove it.

 

just don't be in any hurry and keep your coats as thin as possible.

 

I don't want to mislead you w an oven temp , but 350 comes to mind for some arbitrary reason.

[btbyrd]

You have to set the oven to higher than the oil's smoke point, so 350 won't work for most oils.

[paulraphael]

I like to use an oil that lists the smoke point (been using spectrum "high heat" safflower oil for both sautéing and seasoning things).

I set the oven about 25°F above the smoke point. This has always given perfect results and made short work of the project. For the oil I use that's around 500°.

As Rotus said, you want to put the oil on in VERY thin layers. I usually have a piece of paper towel wetted with the oil, and a dry piece. Using tongs, I wipe it down with the oily one, and then wipe off all the excess with the dry one. You're really going for as thin a coat as you can manage.

 

While there isn't a lot of smoke, the operation doesn't smell awesome, and can drag on for the better part of an hour. So I try to ventilate as well as possible.

[joancassell]

Sheryl Canter's methods worked for me, when nothing else did.  Time-consuming, but the results are worth the fuss: http://sherylcanter.com/wordpress/2010/01/a-science-based-technique-for-seasoning-cast-iron/