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It's Just Food. Eat It.


robyn
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Momofuku Ko is the most difficult restaurant reservation in New York right now, and probably one of the two most difficult restaurant reservations (El Bulli being the other) in the world. I'm pretty handy at getting reservations at restaurants, so I've been to Momofuku Ko a few times. I'd like to be able to show you all some photos of my recent meals there, but I can't. Sorry. Those of you who won't be able to make it to Momofuku Ko will just have to settle for the older photos from before cameras were banned.

You could always try going through these weasels:

http://nyc.tablexchange.com/

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Tho I think Fresser said it best overall, I cant resist a reply to this post.

For those of you who are substituting looking at pictures with living life - my main words of advice would be "get out and do it".  Perhaps you will never get to a 3 star Michelin restaurant ever - anywhere - but I had some pretty good eats in the greater Detroit area (an unlikely venue) a couple of weeks ago.  And - at home - I am a pretty good cook.  Which means time in the kitchen - not looking at pictures on a computer.  It isn't in the cards for me to ski again - but I don't sit home looking at Warren Miller movies - I go out and do stuff I can do.

Me, I eat where and when I can and I enjoy reading of other people's eats. Sometimes the shots even educate me on where to eat, or what to cook.

We're different, you and me. Sue me.

And just FWIW - after years of experience - if you can't remember a meal/dish without looking at a picture - it wasn't a memorable meal/dish.  I can still remember some great stuff I had almost 40 years ago.

I take it you indulge in neither vacation photos nor family snapshots?

Me, I'm visual. Such things trigger memories.

Also - for many people (althougn not all people) - if you want to eat certain meals in certain places - if there's a will - there's a way.  Robyn

And in the meantime, reading and viewing other's experiences keeps the motivation high.

"You dont know everything in the world! You just know how to read!" -an ah-hah! moment for 6-yr old Miss O.

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Hey, if you don't want to take pictures of your food, don't. I have no problem with that.

But I take a lot of pictures of food (mostly of food that I cook at home). In fact, on my computer, I have a picture folder named "Memorable Meals".

I sometimes spend weeks or longer planning menus, table decor, shopping and preparing meals, especially for large family gatherings. I like to take photos to memorialize all that hard work. Sometimes, I look through the folder to be sure that I'm not serving the same meal to the same people, and sometimes I look there for inspiration - remembering an event that went particularly well, for example.

Recently, a family member passed away and I was able to better enjoy her memory by looking through the memorable meals folder and remembering the wonderful meals that we shared.

So I'm definitely biased in favor of photographing food, but I respect the rights of others not to do so. And if I'm in a restaurant that doesn't allow photos, I'm fine with that.

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I just think it's funny that participants in a food discussion board would be rolling their eyes at people who are a little bit more obsessive than they are.

If it's only food, and we should just eat it, what are any of us doing here on eG?

I don't know about anyone else - but there are people here from all over - and people who travel to a lot of places - and they frequently give me some good ideas about places to dine when I'm traveling. I try to return the favor by giving my impressions of places where I've dined (including those on my own home turf). I used to write a lot more about meals than I do now. For a few reasons - one of which is that I had to take notes during less than memorable meals to do detailed write-ups - which I disliked (no problem with the memorable meals - I remembered them :wink: ). So my writeups these days are pretty short. Robyn

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Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but if no one took any pictures of food or wrote about food, we wouldn't have any cookbooks. What would a world without cookbooks be. :sad: I'd have to get rid of my book shelves. And then there's the food magazines. My bathroom would be devoid of reading material.

While I don't take pictures of food, due to lack of a camera, I do draw great inspiration from other people's penchant for doing so. I love the "Dinner" thread for that reason. And when I need a good laugh (or consolation) the "Dinner II, Gallery of Regretable Foods" thread does just the trick. And when I find my mind wandering about what Italy must be like in harvest season, a thing I'll likely never see, how wonderful it is that I can click on a thread here and get a glimpse. And on a note likely to draw fire from some, how wonderful is it that I'll never go to Alinea and spend $500 because after seeing all the photos of the food, I just can't see myself getting excited over a slice of bacon handing from a mini wire clothes line. It's just not me. And therefore, the photos saved me a lot of money. Snap away people. Keep it coming.

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I grew up in a small town in Western Kansas, in a working class family. I don't think my mother has ever been to a big city, and my dad would have been only during WWII. So fine dining at the world's best restaurants isn't exactly a family tradition. Nor is it for anyone I know, other than those I've met here.

I now live in Wichita, which is an area with nearly half a million people, and I don't think we have anything here that compares with the best of what places like Chicago and New York City have to offer.

So answer this: if no one writes about food... if no one photographs those lovely dishes... how would I even develop the desire to go to those places? Why would I want to taste those things? I will never forget waiting anxiously for Ronnie Suburban to post his story about his first visit to Alinea. In celebration, I mailed to him a photocopy from one of Craig Claiborne's cookbooks; it was a bite-by-bite description of a fabulous meal he had in Paris after winning "dinner anywhere in the world" in a public television fundraising auction. I had no idea, at the time I initially read it, that anybody ever ate stuff like that. Russel Baker's parody on Claiborne's piece was pretty much the funniest thing I've ever read. (PM or e-mail me if you'd like a copy.) Ronnie enjoyed it, too.

Why do people photograph and write about food? For the same reason they write about, and photograph, all of the other things this planet and this life have to offer. My life is so much richer for it.

Thank you, Craig.

Thank you, Russell.

Thank you, Ronnie.

Thank you, all of those who do.

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...I'd like to be able to show you all some photos of my recent meals there, but I can't. Sorry. Those of you who won't be able to make it to Momofuku Ko will just have to settle for the older photos from before cameras were banned...

The last time I was at Momofuku Ko, a guy down the counter from me (the restaurant has just 12 seats, all at a long counter) took out a small camera and was about to photograph his food. I didn't notice it. I did notice, however, when one of the restaurant's employees told him he couldn't use the camera. It was an uncomfortable moment and an utterly inhospitable act. This guy just wanted to take some photos of his food. Who cares why? He should have been allowed to...

Perhaps I am unusual - but I don't care about seeing your pictures. Since I have found out over the years that our taste in restaurants is similar - I do like to read whether you liked a restaurant (good chance if you liked it - I'll like it). Note that with other people - I have found out that our taste in restaurants is very different - so I tend to avoid the restaurants they like :wink: .

It's curious that as much as I've dined out - I have never seen anyone taking pictures of food in a restaurant - and I am a pretty observant person - am always looking around to see what is going on (I have seen people taking pictures of themselves - probably for things like birthdays - but that doesn't happen often). Of course - a lot of the places where I've dined are pretty formal in terms of attitude (doesn't have to be fancy to be formal - a small high end sushi bar in Tokyo can be very formal - you'd no more think of taking out a camera than asking the chef if you could borrow his knife).

So this particular issue hasn't affected me - yet. I can only imagine that in this very small very "hot" restaurant in New York - that things got out of control at some point. I'll also note that I think a chef or restaurant is free to set whatever policies it wants to set with regard to cameras - cellphones - dress codes - smoking in places where it is still legal - etc. And I as a diner am also free to decide whether or not to dine in a particular place based on whether I think I'll like it - taking everything I know about it into account.

To answer a question that might be asked - if I have never been affected by photography in restaurants - why did I start this thread? Simple. I thought that the Chef's phrase was really catchy. Made me smile. Robyn

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I find often that a photograph captures something ineffable about a dish. Take this example of yours, robyn: lots of description about variations in texture and hue. As you wrote,
Now take a look at this picture. It's the exact same thing - just shot from a different angle. Has more of a sense of motion - and it draws you into the subject more. It's a more interesting picture.

You dug into the archives to find those :laugh: . I never said I didn't own a camera - or never took pictures of food (and other things). It is interesting where those pictures came from though. I went to a new local restaurant - loved it - and asked the chef if I could come back on a slow night and take some pictures of food as they were coming out of the kitchen. Instead - he invited me and my husband to a press party at the restaurant - where everyone was writing in notebooks and clicking away. And I had to take I don't know how many pictures to get about 20 pretty good shots (I was pretty new at shooting food then - I am getting better - but it still usually takes a lot of shots from a lot of different angles with different lighting to get "keepers" ).

I've done similar at other restaurants (asking the chef for access to the food while not eating). With pretty good luck. E.g., at one restaurant - the chef invited me to the staff meeting before dinner - cooked 2 of his dishes that I especially liked - and allowed me to photograph them to my heart's content.

One thing I did find out pretty early on is that in a typical restaurant setting - even in my house during the day - it is difficult to get adequate light levels to take good pictures without using a flash - or a tripod for a prolonged exposure. Photoshop or the like can help to rescue some marginal pictures - but many taken without flash or prolonged exposure are totally hopeless. Also - as small cameras get better and better resolution - you need a very steady hand - or a tripod - to get good closeups (I take lots of pictures of butterflies on flowers - where the subject area is about as large as that of an average food shot).

In short - what I am saying is that in all probability - 90% of the pictures being taken at restaurants wind up being junk. Which perhaps is neither here nor there in terms of photography rules - because a lot of people probably don't mind taking junky pictures.

BTW - I do agree with the point Prasantrin made - that when my husband and I are dining with other people (many of whom we have met here) - we are usually too busy talking with them even to think about taking pictures. Robyn

Edited by robyn (log)
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In short - what I am saying is that in all probability - 90% of the pictures being taken at restaurants wind up being junk.

That's a rather obvious point, though, isn't it? I'd bet that 90% of all photographs taken wind up being junk. I can't imagine why food photography would be any less or more lousy.

Chris Amirault

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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For those of you who are substituting looking at pictures with living life - my main words of advice would be "get out and do it."

Pictures don't substitute for life itself--they enhance it. As proof, I present this titillating signage:

gallery_336_534_14081.jpg

For those who now wish to "get out and do it," I propose field trips to 63rd & Stony Island, 79th & Racine and other ratty sections of Chicago where Harold's is located. Without food blogging & photography, how would we know about these gems?

And while you're there, don't forget to try the livers.

There are two sides to every story and one side to a Möbius band.

borschtbelt.blogspot.com

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Ouch. Click. Ouch. I would love to hear someone define the term "food porn." Pornography, in my old American Collegiate dictionary, is defined as an obscenity. Most of us don't have a very positive reaction to pornography; some percentage of people defend it. Often it is negative because it is exploitive. The exploitive aspects of food photography, however, such as its use in getting us to try a restaurant or buy a book or subscribe to a magazine are not what I think some people on these boards find tiresome or offensive or "obscene" about certain types of food pix.

I can't explain my own feelings about this. The last time I took a picture of food (not including pix of markets on various travels) was of the cake my husband and I made for our daughter's first birthday about 19 years ago. We don't bake a lot, but it was a tour de force: dark chocolate glaze with vivid pink and green writing and decorative flowers. It was shot from straight above, showing an ornate plate rim against a background of a riotous mexican plastic tablecloth. Five minutes later most of that cake was either on the floor or my daughter's face. We made a thing of beauty and then we made a beautiful picture of it. Whenever I look at that picture I'm blown away. And yet I have no interest in photographing anything else I cook and absolutely none in photographing anything I eat when dining out.

I very much like the dinner thread and the baking thread. I love to see what people make; I love that, "Look Ma! I made this all by myself!" devotion. I think many of the tutorials are wonderful and helpful. That said, I admit to emotions that vary from discomfort, boredom and revulsion when faced with picture after picture of high-end restaurant food. Is it because I don't eat at those restaurants? Is it because it makes the food look so precious? It would be hard to argue that it isn't a labor of love for someone, albeit a professional. Is it because sometimes those apps that cost 20 euros for four bites look so silly they no longer even look like food? Does it become offensive at the point I start finding the politics of it overtakes whatever part of it was a labor of love?

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My food photos aren't in any way spectacular though I think I've improved.

The one thing I sort of regret is the fact that during my spring trip to Italy I didn't take one food photo. Would like to be able to say to people, "Look that's how they do it!"

I was to busy enjoying the food and the company to even think about a camera.

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Back in 1987, long before Fat Guy ever lifted his first shrimp fork (or at least got paid to do it), I was reading Car and Driver to learn more about cars. Brock Yates reviewed a 911 Turbo Cabriolet and he wrote,

The road to Payson.  Grand, sweeping arcs through the Arizona sagebrush, the sun's anger still hours away.  The dots on the horizon are the Mazatzal Mountains, far distant for an ordinary machine.  But at 130 MPH, in a tiny white Porsche pellet, time and space are compressed by quantum factors.  On the road to Payson, normal measurements do not apply.
.

Twenty years later, the only time I've traveled 130 MPH is when taxiing down an O'Hare runway and I'm no closer to owning a Porsche. But I'm still a car nut and I still enjoy reading Yates.

Have all of you heard a Ferrari V-12 at redline? How about the lopey idle of a Chevrolet big-block? Or even the metallic rasp of a Porsche 911? Probably not. But I have heard these wondrous noises and am privilged to be able to write about them in a way that maybe you CAN hear them.

When I wrote Bulletproof Cuisine, a photographer who read the piece wrote to me and said he "(F)ound myself unconsciously licking my fingers whilst reading this article." I'm thrilled that I could share the Harold's experience with friends in a way that didn't involve either a cash outlay or the risk of becoming lard-assed.

We all fantasize about cars we may never own and meals we never eat, but skilled writers let us enjoy the experiences in the meantime.

Rumble-rumble. Did that noise come from under the hood of a car or within my stomach? I'll write about it and let you know.

There are two sides to every story and one side to a Möbius band.

borschtbelt.blogspot.com

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I'll sometimes take a photo of a memorable meal. No flash of course.

Last June a friend from another forum stayed a few days with us and I introduced her to pho (for breakfast of course).

I took the pic both to post in said forum and also to preserve the moment. I guess this is mundane (a $5 meal) for most but for us it was a special meal.

Gotta love Little Saigon!

gallery_52440_6159_31225.jpg

Edited by 6ppc (log)

Jon

--formerly known as 6ppc--

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I can't imagine why anyone should even feel it necessary to justify themselves for enjoying taking pictures of what they eat, so long as they don't bother their dining companions or those at other tables. I also don't see how taking pictures in any way implies that one prefers taking pictures to keeping company with others. A quick point and click and then it's on to enjoying the food and the conversation. I happen to have a lot of friends who photograph food when we go out and I've never been bothered by it, or thought they weren't enjoying my conversation. I tend to take photos more of the food I cook at home, mostly because I don't have a camera that works well in low light. Many people enjoy looking at other's food pictures--as can be seen in the many threads here and other websites. That all the pictures aren't magazine/website quality is sort of beside the point, unless one wants to be paid, after all, they're just for fun! I have no doubt that many of my vacation, food and family event pictures are of questionable quality ("junky"), but that doesn't mean my family, friends and I don't enjoy looking at them.

eta: of course, after making my opening sentence, I went ahead and justified it anyway. :cool:

Edited by SeaGal (log)

Jan

Seattle, WA

"But there's tacos, Randy. You know how I feel about tacos. It's the only food shaped like a smile....A beef smile."

--Earl (Jason Lee), from "My Name is Earl", Episode: South of the Border Part Uno, Season 2

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. . . one of Craig Claiborne's cookbooks; it was a bite-by-bite description of a fabulous meal he had in Paris after winning "dinner anywhere in the world" in a public television fundraising auction. 

Thank you, Craig.

Thank you, Russell.

Thank you, Ronnie.

Thank you, all of those who do.

Yesss!! I remember that---it was an American Express raffle/auction type thing, and the offer was for Dinner-for-Two at any restaurant in the world that honored the card. The company had apparently expected two ordinary people to make reservations, even if it WERE in Paris (they would get themselves there, of course, and pay for their own accommodations) and order whatever was the customary fare from the menu. This made quite an impression on me, for I had just gotten my first AX card, and avidly read about the contest in a little enclosed brochure.

DearCraig, once a down-the-road neighbor, had a talk with his friend Pierre Franey, and they discussed all the rare and wonderful dishes that could be prepared in Pierre's restaurant, and in early-Seventies prices, the D-F-T was more than $4000.00.

And when Craig published HIS piece in the NYT, public outcry echoed up the skyscrapers. The word "excess" got a distinct workout, and "wretched" was bandied about by both those who could spell it and those who couldn't. And the voices expressed a lot of the opinions here---why bother doing all that, spending all that, for mere FOOD?

The words on both sides have probably been uttered since the first fire-and-a-stick kitchen, and utility and need acquired a little polish, a little pretty over the ages. One person had a primitive stick, another whittled off the splinters a little, and another banked a few stones around the coals. And that went on and on, with dishes and carvings and garnishes and now here we are, like the Big and Little Endians.

I do it for the save-to-savor aspect. I enjoy seeing the work of other people's hands, but I don't care if you click or not. I just don't understand how don't got to be such an important thing.

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gallery_16307_215_13816.jpg

It's not just food, it's art. It's the art of nature, enhanced by my own art in the kitchen. First we admired it, then we ate it, and now we continue to admire it.

gallery_16307_215_11297.jpg

If food is fuel, then this is the fuel of the gods. And if food were just fuel, it wouldn't need to be beautiful. My art is practiced in the kitchen, and I take it as seriously as any artist. Unlike other art, however, a dish like this vanishes in a few moments, leaving no trace. If I had to remember every beautiful dish I'd made or eaten over the years there'd be no room in my head for the really important stuff.

gallery_16307_215_26937.jpg

And it's not only my own art that I appreciate. When a restaurant puts something like this in front of me, you can be sure that I'm not just going to slurp it up and go on my merry way.

These pictures have already appeared on French Letters where they keep company with my other attempts to pay homage to the beauty of food, as well as other aspects of life. Beauty merits preservation, wherever we find it.

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Just for precision's sake, the exact quote from David Chang is "It's just food. Eat it."

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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well, if it really was just food... would this Momoffuku place be the hype that it is? If it really was just food, wouldn´t all the people who are now dying to get a reservation, be just as happy staying at home with a cheese sandwich?

I think a restaurant owner should be able to lay down the rules about whatever behavior he does not want in his place (and in this light, this discussion is reminiscent of the no laptops in restaurant bars topic.) If Chang does not want cameras... fine. Customers can disagree and argue about it, but it´s his call.. IMO.

But explaining it by the remark he made, is just silly.

Edited by Chufi (log)
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I really want to know why they don't allow photography at Ko...anyone???anyone???

Because you're elbow to elbow with other patrons. That's my assumption, anyway. I didn't get the impression, from what I read about it, that it's at all an intellectual property issue or anything (which is supported by the fact that, as Fat Guy points out above, Chang has not banned photography at his other restaurants).

"We had dry martinis; great wing-shaped glasses of perfumed fire, tangy as the early morning air." - Elaine Dundy, The Dud Avocado

Queenie Takes Manhattan

eG Foodblogs: 2006 - 2007

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Well it is just food and we should just eat it. When in restaurants anyway. To those who think taking pictures of food in restaurants is a good thing I'll try to see if a small analogy might cause you to pause & think.

Think of someone with their beloved cell phone in a good restaurant.

First they say: "I'll turn the ringer off." (Food fotoer; (" I won't use the flash.")

Then they say; " I'll speak very softly." ( Food fotoer; " I'll try not to get up or squirm too much as I try for the perfect angle. Nor will I pass plates around the table so all get their picture taken.")

Then the phoney says; "I'll keep it short." ( Fofotoer; " I'll only take 50 pics instead of my normal 100. Getting good shots in this low light is hard you know."

Now, thank goodness, the phone has pretty much been banned in restaurants or where not most practitioners either turn it off or go outside.

Not so food photographers. And believe me they are annoying. Most restaurants put up with it because they don't know what else to do and most other customers annoyed though they may be don't complain to the management or the photographer.

Personally, I'd rather have to sit next to a table of smokers than a table of photographing foodies.

As for the comments above about food as art. Occasionally food does rise above the level of craft and become art. The art, however, is not the visual it is the aroma and above all the taste. I can think of no truly great chef who is more admired for his/ her presentation than the taste of what comes from his/her imagination & skill.

A simple example. A perfect steak is culinary art, but nobody would accuse one of being pretty. (Yes, a good photographer can make a steak look pretty good.) Yet it is a delight to eat, I can still remember the aroma, taste, texture and occasion of a small number of top steaks.

On the other hand, there is a really beautiful picture up thread of some squash blossoms presumably stuffed with something delicious. In my experience beautiful though they may be squash blossoms don't taste particularly good. Can't say I've ever had a squash blossom dish to remember.

By all means take all the pictures you want of the food you produce, share them as you will, but you could just end up being remembered as a great photographic artist (& there's nothing at all wrong with that) not as a great chef.

I for one don't need a picture to remind my of great food or great wine for that matter. As with wine the language of food when used properly is enough. Still. if you want pictures who am to say otherwise. Please, just don't take them in a restaurant when I'm eating. Thanks.

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Well it is just food and we should just eat it. When in restaurants anyway. To those who think taking pictures of food in restaurants is a good thing I'll try to see if a small analogy might cause you to pause & think.

Think of someone with their beloved cell phone in a good restaurant.

First they say: "I'll turn the ringer off." (Food fotoer; (" I won't use the flash.")

Then they say; " I'll speak very softly." ( Food fotoer; " I'll try not to get up or squirm too much as I try for the perfect angle. Nor will I pass plates around the table so all get their picture taken.")

Then the phoney says; "I'll keep it short." ( Fofotoer; " I'll only take 50 pics instead of my normal 100. Getting good shots in this low light is hard you know."

Now, thank goodness, the phone has pretty much been banned in restaurants or where not most practitioners either turn it off or go outside.

I don't agree with this analogy at all. Hearing is very difficult to "turn off." Sight, on the other hand, is not at all. Avoid looking at the photographers and the problem is solved. I don't have a problem with food photography at all, and 99.9% of the time, I don't do it. However, I am easily able to ignore it if others are doing it, and rather than being bothered by it, it shows me that someone else in the restaurant is as concerned with food as I am. If you don't care to know that, just concentrate on your own table!

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Well it is just food and we should just eat it. When in restaurants anyway. To those who think taking pictures of food in restaurants is a good thing I'll try to see if a small analogy might cause you to pause & think.

Think of someone with their beloved cell phone in a good restaurant.

First they say: "I'll turn the ringer off." (Food fotoer; (" I won't use the flash.")

Then they say; " I'll speak very softly." ( Food fotoer; " I'll try not to get up or squirm too much as I try for the perfect angle. Nor will I pass plates around the table so all get their picture taken.")

Then the phoney says; "I'll keep it short." ( Fofotoer; " I'll only take 50 pics instead of my normal 100. Getting good shots in this low light is hard you know."

Now, thank goodness, the phone has pretty much been banned in restaurants or where not most practitioners either turn it off or go outside.

Not so food photographers. And believe me they are annoying. Most restaurants put up with it because they don't know what else to do and most other customers annoyed though they may be don't complain to the management or the photographer.

Personally, I'd rather have to sit next to a table of smokers than a table of photographing foodies.

As for the comments above about food as art. Occasionally food does rise above the level of craft and become art. The art, however, is not the visual it is the aroma and above all the taste. I can think of no truly great chef who is more admired for his/ her presentation than the taste of what comes from his/her imagination & skill.

A simple example. A perfect steak is culinary art, but nobody would accuse one of being pretty. (Yes, a good photographer can make a steak look pretty good.) Yet it is a delight to eat, I can still remember the aroma, taste, texture and occasion of a small number of top steaks.

On the other hand, there is a really beautiful picture up thread of some squash blossoms presumably stuffed with something delicious. In my experience beautiful though they may be squash blossoms don't taste particularly good. Can't say I've ever had a squash blossom dish to remember.

By all means take all the pictures you want of the food you produce, share them as you will, but you could just end up being remembered as a great photographic artist (& there's nothing at all wrong with that) not as a great chef.

I for one don't need a picture to remind my of great food or great wine for that matter. As with wine the language of food when used properly is enough. Still. if you want pictures who am to say otherwise. Please, just don't take them in a restaurant when I'm eating. Thanks.

Another reason this analogy doesn't hold is that the cell phone has nothing whatsoever to do with the meal in front of you or one's dining partners. The camera, on the other hand has a direct relationship to that meal. While some may not have their meals enhanced by btaking photos of the food or restaurant, many clearly do. I am one of them. If nothing else, it encourages people to notice the skill and craft that goes into setting up a plate, rather than just digging in. While the ultimate objective is food that tastes good, food that is beautiful to look at as well, goes a long way to enhance the dining experience. I also believe in the old maxim that a picture tells a thousand words.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

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