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TheSwede

Induction cooktops in Europe

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I will redo the kitchen in the apartment I'm about to move into and I'm trying to find a decent induction rangetop.

It is not as easy as it might seem. Almost all inductions rangetops have two features I absolutely hate: They have touch controls (very slow to operate and prone to malfunction if your hands or the top is dirty) and they turn themselves off (or starts to beep/blink) if you remove the pot.

What I want is a simple, high wattage range similar to this Viking one:

http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/produc...?id=prod3690160

As far as I know, Viking doesn't sell their stuff in Europe. I have been looking at real professional induction ranges like this one:

http://tools.professional.electrolux.com/M...lish/CAD010.pdf

But I don't think the electrical wiring in my new apartment can take anything like that.

Any suggestions?

I can of course buy a stove (which usually have classical controls), but then I might be stuck with an oven I don't want.

Edit: My bad, Viking do sell in Europe - but maybe not the induction range? Still interested in all opinions.


Edited by TheSwede (log)

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... Almost all inductions rangetops have two features I absolutely hate: They have touch controls (very slow to operate and prone to malfunction if your hands or the top is dirty) and they turn themselves off (or starts to beep/blink) if you remove the pot. ...

Yes, touch controls are a nuisance with wet fingers. A towel at one's waist is one simple solution to the problem created by the technology. But touch controls are super-easy to keep super-clean longterm. Just don't use them with wet/greasy fingers! Its not so much that they "malfunction" - its just that they may ignore you until your fingers and that area of the glass ceramic is wiped over.

Blinking and "turning themselves off", hmm.

There's scope for misunderstanding here.

Without a pot in place, all induction 'rings' use almost zero power and generate no heat at all. (Some writers call this 'switching off' - but it isn't!) They generally try to indicate that no-power-being-delivered-because-there's-nothing-there-to-work-with condition by flashing something. My (six years ago's basic model) deDietrich wasn't in any hurry to set the control back to zero or off. You could remove a pan, add or remove something, and return it to the stove. The indicator for that ring would flash while the pan was away, but replacing the pan resumed the power delivery at the previous level and stopped the LEDs flashing. IIRC it might have had a feature to set the control to 'off' after some minutes of flashing - but that is different from the instant drop in power consumption during the temporary removal of the pan.

Controls. AFAIK all induction hobs use click-stepped power levels rather than the infinite analogue variability of gas knobs. (Though because the electronic output power regulation 'dims' the power by switching it several times every second, they do give at least as steady a simmer as gas does.)

So its good to have lots of "click-steps".

And generally the more steps, the more the manufacturer will provide "shortcuts" to get to specific power levels (which you might then adjust from) - this is much quicker than scrolling from 1 to 15 for example...

Maybe try and find somewhere with the things on demo, so you can actually use them, rather than having to interpret what a brochure-writer means.

I believe deDietrich and Brandt come out of the same factory, like Siemens and Neff are twins.


Edited by dougal (log)

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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I have cooked a fair amount on induction ranges. This is why i have concluded that I really really hate touch controls. There is a reason why all professional models have sturdy old school dial controls.

As for the turning off/beeping/blinking: That varies between between manufacturers. Blinking is clearly the least offensive, but still bothers me somewhat. Most offensive are the ones that turn themselves off (really off) if you don't replace the pan in 15 seconds or so.

Once again, professional ranges doesn't do anything like that. From what I've seen, they silently turn themself off after ten minutes or so if no pan is on.

Thanks for the tips on the brands, I will check them out.


Edited by TheSwede (log)

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What I want is a simple, high wattage range similar to this Viking one:

http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/produc...?id=prod3690160

As far as I know, Viking doesn't sell their stuff in Europe.

Edit: My bad, Viking do sell in Europe - but maybe not the induction range? Still interested in all opinions.

Actually Viking does seem to sell their induction cooktops (controls on the side) in Europe...though I'm not sure about the induction rangetop (controls on the front)

http://www.viking-inventum.com/hobs.php

The cooktop and the rangetop seem to have the same "burners" based on diameter and wattage. This distributor is based in Malmö. :smile:

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Interesting Viking site Cats2 !

The product details and prices are to be found under the "Support" heading - they are in the PDF "Price List".

There, on page "50" (its actually number 34 within the PDF) there is detail given for the "“Professional” induction cooking table from 80 cm width EVICU105-4B"...

“No Contact” safe device for switching off the element if the pan is removed

and not replaced on the element within two minutes

So this Pro model (and its 6-burner, 95 cm wide, sister) DOES switch hard off with no pan present, and after two rather than ten minutes.

However, the shocker for me was the price, €5000... for the four-burner hob alone... which makes deDietrich seem positively cheap! (Or makes those knobs terribly expensive!)

Another point is that the 10cm thickness would mean no drawer immediately beneath. Typically the deDietrichs, etc, are thin enough (and run cool enough) to allow use of a standard kitchen unit with a top drawer...


"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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...

However, the shocker for me was the price, €5000... for the four-burner hob alone... which makes deDietrich seem positively cheap! (Or makes those knobs terribly expensive!)

...

Yeah, the Viking price is ridiculous. In the US, the same model cost less than half of that. You also get the switching off, but two minutes is is probably approaching ok even for me.

A better buy in the prosumer segment is the Gaggenau modular 400 series. Still very expensive, but cheaper than the Viking and actually used in restaurant kitchens.

If you can accept slightly flimsier construction, the Gaggenau 200 series is almost affordable. Still has knobs and very high wattage (for a consumer range).

All the above models need space underneath for extra cooling, but that is the price you pay for cooking with high effect.

http://www.gaggenau.com/SE_sv/Modular-Cook...w.do?protocol=*


Edited by TheSwede (log)

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Hmmm, I do wonder what Gaggenau actually mean by this -

The cooking zone switches off whenever a cooking vessel is pushed off the cooking zone during operation.
http://www.gaggenau.com/GB_en/Modular-Cook...tField=feature2 (about the VI 421 'domino' induction hob)

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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Hmmm, I do wonder what Gaggenau actually mean by this -
The cooking zone switches off whenever a cooking vessel is pushed off the cooking zone during operation.
http://www.gaggenau.com/GB_en/Modular-Cook...tField=feature2 (about the VI 421 'domino' induction hob)

According to the actual manual (available on the site), it turns off the effect (and flashes a small led) when no pot is present but it doesnt turn off for real.

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According to the actual manual (available on the site), it turns off the effect (and flashes a small led) when no pot is present but it doesnt turn off for real.

Maybe it says that in other languages, but the English version just has the rather imprecise wording -

The indicator light on the display panel flashes and

the cooking zone does not operate, if no pan or an

unsuitable receptacle (too small, non-magnetic) has

been placed on the cooking zone.

And to me, especially considering the marketing comment quoted previously about "switching off", the English manual is not confirming that "does not operate" really means "does not turn off for real"...

Like I said originally, the only way to clarify these points absolutely is with one's hands on the actual kit. Much of the written info is just not specific enough. (With Viking a clear exception.) And after you've filtered the brochure and manual through a salesperson, well, it usually doesn't lead to an authoritative answer! :cool:


"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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...

A better buy in the prosumer segment is the Gaggenau modular 400 series. Still very expensive, but cheaper than the Viking and actually used in restaurant kitchens.

If you can accept slightly flimsier construction, the Gaggenau 200 series is almost affordable. Still has knobs and very high wattage (for a consumer range).

All the above models need space underneath for extra cooling, but that is the price you pay for cooking with high effect.

...

But those aren't particularly high power (wattage) models.

Compare with the cheap (well, cheapish) 60cm deDietrich DTI 704 (about £400 is achievable nowadays in the UK). It has one 3100 watt burner, two at 2800 watts, and a 2000 watt one. However, you can't use more than 7600 watts total, at any one time... (from the supply requirement)

Whereas that Gaggenau VI 421 has one at 2200 watts ("boost" 3300) and one rated 1400 watts ("boost" 1800). The "boost" function reduces the power available to the other ring - its 3600 watts "total connected load" for electrical supply.

I know Gaggenau think that "if you need to ask the price, then you can't afford us" but it seems as though that two-ring 'domino' unit is about £1000. For two burners, totalling only 3600 watts?

The DD is just 6cm thin. Easily mountable above a drawer. When I installed my old DD, I made a few holes in the cabinet front above the drawer opening (and therefore hidden under the worktop lip) for vent air inlet and ensured that it could share the vent exit of the adjacent under-counter fridge.

I'm referring to DD only because that's what I bought, installed and used. And enjoyed. I gather that in the UK they can be awkward for service, but I never needed any.

The Gaggenau VI 421 at a mere 5cm is actually even slimmer than the DD. Its just those knobs that steal your drawer space!

The 200 series induction domino looks as though it could be mounted above a drawer...

In my case, the price to "pay for cooking with high effect" was just buying the thing !! :biggrin:

But I fear your requirement for knobs could push your cost up considerably, and maybe also rob you of some drawer space.

Incidentally, AFAIK, Gaggenau is part of the Bosch/Siemens/Neff group...


"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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Just wondering what brands people have had good experiences with? Have just received an insurance payout of €800 euros so that's approximately our budget. We had a De Dietrich but it was a bit iffy with the electrics.

Are there any brands people swear by? I heard somewhere that most induction cookers are made by two or three companies, and then packaged and sold under different brand names... Is this true?

Any thoughts would be most gratefully received.

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Just wondering what brands people have had good experiences with? Have just received an insurance payout of €800 euros so that's approximately our budget. We had a De Dietrich but it was a bit iffy with the electrics.

Are there any brands people swear by? I heard somewhere that most induction cookers are made by two or three companies, and then packaged and sold under different brand names... Is this true?

Any thoughts would be most gratefully received.

What is a hob? It is not a term used in Canada. We have cooktops and we have ranges. Ranges have a cooktop and an oven(s).

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As previously stated, I had zero trouble of any sort with my de Dietrich induction hob.

I believe the under-counter ventilation requirement is similar, regardless of the brand.

Don't ask the salesperson's opinion -- look it up in the installation instructions!

Brandt come out of the same factory as de Dietrich, usually look more utilitarian, lack the fanciest features and are a bit cheaper.

I had a fairly basic, 4 ring hob.

Only feature I'd look to add would be finer (more steps) control. What I had was great, but that would be one of the few possible improvements.

If comparing brands be aware that different makes quote peak power differently. Be aware of what any inter-dependencies (and 'boost' options) actually mean, in daily use.

Don't expect salespeople to understand detailed questions! ADDED - so be prepared to look up stuff in the user manual while in the showroom.


Edited by dougal (log)

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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. . .

What is a hob?  It is not a term used in Canada.  We have cooktops and we have ranges.  Ranges have a cooktop and an oven(s).

Hob = cooktop for all intents and purposes.


Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

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I have a Miele which I love. Has boosters on every element, and a timer. Couldn't tell you all the technical details, but generally everything Miele we've ever bought has been excellent. I was also lucky to get one for around 750 Euros a few years ago, I suspect the previous year's model.

I see you can still get them online in France for around 800 Euros.

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We went to the Wolf-Sub Zero distributor's scratch & dent sale in Auburn Hills a week ago, and ended up with a current Wolf 36" induction cooktop, as new, for ~ $1,600 off!

I'm waiting for new quartz countertops to be delivered, and I'll report back after I've had a chance to try it out.


Carpe Carp: Seize that fish!

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