What makes something haute cuisine?

[Bux]

Excuse me for saying this but that is incorrect.

You're wrong, but of course we'll excuse you. We always do.

[Bux]

Let me try to make a couple of points. Haute cuisine is not the same thing as French cuisine. Most French cuisine is not haute cuisine. Most restaurant cuisine is not haute cuisine. Basically haute cuisine is a subset of French cuisine, and a subset of French restaurant cooking at it's height of finesse, although excellent arguments could be made that it's now an international style of cooking that bears little resemblance to traditional French cuisine. Nevertheless, it's a style that developed in France. Chefs in this country who might be said to cook haute cuisine range from the French such as Boulud, Delouvrier, Vongerichten, etc. to Americans such as Trotter and Keller. Certainly there are several chefs in Spain now whose restaurants offer haute cuisine.

Cassoulet is most definitely not haute cuisine. It is a traditional regional French dish. Nevretheless, it and other rustic dishes may make an appearance in a restaurant known for it's haute cuisine. Sometimes it appears in these places in it's proper form. Sometimes it's gussied up and ruined. Every once in a while, some chef manages to successfully create an elegant version. More often they have too much respect for the dish to try. A great three star chef can usually turn out a most remarkable version of most rustic dishes. Some chefs in the US and France, Boulud and Guerard are two that come to mind, seem to have their hearts in that rustic food and it's often evident even in the fanciest dishes.

[Nick]

Well, after many beers, I have to say that when I got the Pro Chef and spent some time looking through it I came upon their recipe for cassoulet. I went, holy shit!, it would take me all day to make that! You can talk about your fancy cooking all you want, but I'd love to try a good cassoulet.

Edit: Maybe I'm being a little harsh, but you get my drift.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I think Britcook's explanation does a good job of showing that if you apply that technique to anything you can turn it into haute cuisine. That is why I am puzzled by people saying that not eveything is haute cuisine. And I am especially puzzled by the example of cassoulet. If anyone has Novelli's cookbook, he makes a terrine of cassoulet. That's right, it looks just like it sounds. He makes a cassoulet and forms it into a loaf surrounded by aspic and then it's chilled. He then cuts slices of it and serves it in a beurre blanc I believe. And it looks just like cassoulet that has been molded into a loaf, with cross sections of sausage and bits of duck and beans. That's haute cuisine casssoulet isn't it? I've never tasted it but it is one of the most impressive looking dishes I have ever seen. So I don't think there are any boundries to HC.

[Nick]

Steve, I don't know shit, but the terrine you just described sounds dynamite. Here I was just trying to figure out a good cassoulet and you do that. The longer I stay at this site, the further behind I fall.

[Dave the Cook]

I'm confused. Is this terrine better than the tete de veau at DB Bistro Moderne?

(Nick, I'm with you. The hurrieder I go...)

[Tonyfinch]

It's in teresting that h-c was described as "the creamiest" a while back and that what turns Novelli's terrine into h-c is a beurre blanc.

I have a book called Secrets of the Great French Restaurants by Louisette Bertholle from 1972. There are recipes in it from every Michelin starred French restaurant at the time. At a rough guess I would say that 95% of those recipes contain butter, cream,alcohol or a combination of those and often all three.

I have an Alan Senderens cookbook from the 80s in which every recipe contains cream.

Even allowing that things may not be quite the same now, I still think that h-c is expected to involve certain established ingredients to which the chef's technique is then applied. Other standard ingredients are foie gras truffles and beef fillet. Is there an haut cuisine restaurant anywhere in the world that doesn't have a preparation of foie gras somewhere on the menu?

So a pre-condition for h-c is a very specific set of ingredients which facilitate the creamy,silky finish to a dish so prized bu those who rate French h-c food above all others. A chef who applies all his/her technique to a completely different set of ingredients may produce fine food but in most people's minds it will not be haute cuisine. It will be a different language and,of course,to some an inferior one.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Dave - I think the beure blanc is a secondary issue. The icing on the cake so to speak. What makes it HC (and I am just speculating that it is because I've never had it,) or approaching HC is that he changed the dish from a casserole and gave it form and shape. You need to see a picture of it to understand what I'm talking about (and there is a full page picture of it in the book) because the presentation is really superior. But does it taste exactly like a cassoulet? Did he add or take away certain ingredients to make the flavor or texture more refined? Don't know. But the point is that Novelli has rethought the dish in a way that has raised it's status above a peasant dish. Like Boulud has raised the status of a hamburger from a coffee shop/bar & grill item to a respectable lunch dish. And it's the small details that count. The DB Burger is cut in the middle so that the presentation includes the cross-section showing all of the ingredients (not unlike Novelli eh?) A small and simple, yet material part of the presentation. Most places would have just served the burger on a bun.

Tony - That Louis Bertholle book is the single greatest cookbook ever published.

I think a precondition of H-C is that the food has to look beautiful when presented. And in order to make it beautiful the chefs have to manipulate the food into the shape of the design. And in order to do that they have to puree,, strain etc. to make ingredients pliable. It's the difference between serving fava beans, a pile of fava bean puree that looks like green mashed potatoes, or fava bean puree that is formed into scoops that look like ice cream.

[Jonathan Day]

The English translation of "haute cuisine" seems to be "haute cuisine"....or would someone suggest a better (non-French) rendering?

Does this imply that the concept is essentially French? Do similar concepts exist in other languages (alta cucina, etc.?). Is there a German equivalent?

[schaem]

Perhaps haute cuisine has something to do with the descernible (sic?) influence of a particular human being (the chef)? For example tete de veau can be well prepared by a number of cooks, mothers, tradionalists, but when it is identifiably Daniel Boulud's Tete du Veau it becomes haute cuisine. I know this is rather the Great Man of History theory which I normally shun, but I can't seem to avoid thinking it. My original response was merely going to be a cynical, "Steve, if Alain Passard served roasted mushrooms on a plate at L'Arpege, you would think it was haute cuisine." But then I realized that so would I, and so would everyone else.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Schaem - I don't think that it's the great man theory. What you're saying is that it's a matter of context. That roasted mushrooms served at Arpege seem "better" then ones served elsewhere because of the context. Alain Passard and Daniel Boulud are just part of the context. But what you are also saying is that with some foods the amount of haute cuisine intervention is limited. For roast mushrooms to be haute cuisine they need to be special mushrooms, and they need to be roasted in something like a salt crust at low heat for 40 minutes (ala Passard.) Then he can serve them sliced a certain way (artfully) and he can paint them with some type of sauce, or just put a large pat of artisanal salted on butter atop. There isn't much else to do to them is there? But as long as you brought this particular point up, and not to stray from this thread, isn't this Passard's genius? He has reversed the process of intervention and serves veggies in a way where they should taste and seem just like plain roasted or sauteed vegetables. But they appear at your table and everything about them is haute cuisine. And it's a matter of the texture and amount of flavor he gets out of them. Somehow Passard has figured out how to extract sufficient flavor without manipulating the ingredient out of it's natural form or texture while still expressing the H-C esthetic.

JD - Are you saying that it's the practice of a French tradition .

[schaem]

I don't actually know if Passard is a genius, not having eaten at L'Arpege (yet). But I do think it is more about setting, presentation, and ingredients (and price), than any specific technique. And I mean specific technique, I think good technique is essential, whether it is just shaving a raw product or turning it into a foam, care must be given.

Somehow a quote about Chez Panisse seems appropriate, "That's not cooking, that's shopping."

P.S. When do you sleep, Plotnicki?

[jaybee]

I wonder at the relevance of the answer to this question? As Bux said, I doubt that anyone says "I think we'll eat Haute Cuisine tonight," nor do I think any chef's say, "I think I'll cook Haute Cuisine." If it is meant as a means of grading quality of the food or it's characteristics, it probably lacks universal agreement of definition, so it isn't too useful a term. There was probably a time in history where the distinction between "haute" and "bas" or non-haute was useful to diners. But no longer.

My guess is when most people hear the term in relation to a restaurant, they think "expensive." When they hear it in relation to a recipe, they think "complicated."

[schaem]

Jaybee, I think there's a certain amount of truth to that. At on time HC would denote adherence to a certain tradition, that of Careme, Escoffier, etc. based on codified techniques, master sauces, garnishes, and preparations. Now, due to changing tastes, the "discovery" of other high cooking traditions i.e. Japan, nouvelle cuisine, boredom, appreciation of "bas" cuisine, what goes on in "haute" restaurants, while still influenced by the tradition, is very different from the original definition. However; since arguing is fun, it is useful to have some sort of eGullet definition of HC, so that I have something to do when I can't sleep on Saturday morning.

[britcook]

My guess is when most people hear the term in relation to a restaurant, they think "expensive."  When they hear it in relation to a recipe, they think "complicated."

They would be correct. Talent is never cheap.

[CathyL]

My guess is when most people hear the term in relation to a restaurant, they think "expensive."  When they hear it in relation to a recipe, they think "complicated."

I'm late to this thread, as usual...

We need to distinguish between 'complicated' in execution vs. presentation. Consider a consomme that's been simmered, skimmed, rafted and strained to perfect clarity. It could be presented very simply, but the purity and intensity of flavor - achieved through painstaking technique - make it HC. It's not a matter of molding or garnishing or drowning in cream and butter, although I agree many people would associate all that with haute cuisine.

[Jonathan Day]

JD - Are you saying that it's the practice of a French tradition?

No. I was asking whether the concept of haute cuisine appears, in "native" form, in other languages: Italian, Spanish, German ... or whether the idea is fundamentally a French one. It doesn't seem to translate naturally into English. "Gourmet cooking" doesn't work.

One further definition of haute cuisine might be that it always responds to a need somewhere higher than hunger on a scale (e.g. Maslow's) of basic human needs. In other words, if someone's only (or fundamental) need were to relieve hunger, it's hard to imagine them running down for a quick meal at the Grand Vefour. Haute cuisine might respond to other needs, but not, fundamentally, to satisfying hunger, even though it would also do that.

[Steve Plotnicki]

The way the term is used is to describe the cuisine at offered at a certain type of restaurant. Now that I am thinking about it this way, it is really a term the French used to codify a type of restaurant that serves the "highest form of cuisine." Of course what that means varies from place to place and chef to chef but, if food expresses the philosophy then it qualifies.

Jaybee - This question arises from the discussion on the relevance of Italian cuisine. That question asked why Italy didn't adopt haute cuisine or create a version of its own. And the way that discussion developed, it framed this question. But even if that wasn't the case, people consciously choose haute cuisine as a way to dine all of the time. They just don't express it that way. Nobody says to their wife, "c'mon honey, let's get some haute cuisine tonight." But that doesn't mean that my three meals in Paris weren't haute cuisine

Of course there is the other way to look at this. There are many popular restaurants that do not serve haute cuisine. Take Craft or Chez Panisse as two that have been mentioned. How about some more difficult ones. How about Gramercy Tavern or Union Pacific? Do you categorize GT as haute cuisine? Gee that's a close one in my book. Like a simplified version. Union Pacific? Again a simplified version. But what makes the difference? And how about Daniel vs Cafe Boulud or Jean-Georges vs Nougatine? Where is the line between h-c and bistro food. Anybody? Chefs?

[schaem]

In a way, like haute couture, haute cuisine is self identified. Armani is haute couture, A/X is not. Daniel is HC, DB is not (Cafe Boulud is, I think). Again, what seperates it from bistro food is the ability to identify it with its creator. Just as "Gucci" means something (or more accurately, "Tom Ford" means something) so, too, does "Alain Ducasse". In the same vein, I don't think Alice Waters would be troubled to hear that CP doesn't serve haute cuisine, but I think Rocco DiSpirito might be troubled by the equivication on UP.

[Steve Plotnicki]

But does it really need a personal touch for it to be h-c? How about Tour d'Argent? They serve haute cuisine (even if it's bad) so does Taillevent. Their cuisine isn't so chef driven. There are countless hotels all over the world serving h-c with no-name chefs. The key seems to be, whomever the chef is, they apply h-c techniques when preparing the food. As for the line between what is h-c and what isn't, ala Union Pacific and Cafe Boulud, I think both of those places serve food that implement many of the techniques used in h-c. I just wouldn't categorize those places as restaurants that practice h-c in every instance. As opposed to Daniel which ensures that whatever they serve you it goes through the h-c grindrer.

[Fat Guy]

The way the term is used is to describe the cuisine at offered at a certain type of restaurant.

I agree entirely. Haute cuisine today is defined by restaurants and professional chefs. It doesn't exist in any meaningful way outside that arena. And within that arena it is incredibly diverse. The most accurate definition of haute cuisine -- aside from the literal one, "high cuisine," -- is simply "the kind of food served at fancy restaurants." What kind of food do they serve at fancy restaurants? It's hard to say. There have been some suggestions above but I doubt any one rule applies in all instances. I think a particular dish or product or preparation can become haute cuisine simply by virtue of being served in a certain critical mass of fancy restaurants -- and an important enough chef can extend the boundaries of haute cuisine all alone. Usually we expect an added level of refinement to occur when something like macaroni and cheese is brought into a haute cuisine restaurant (as in Ducasse's notorious canneloni). Still, I'm sure there are many dishes served in haute cuisine restaurants today about which a chef from 70 years ago would have said, "This isn't haute cuisine; it's a bistro dish," but because the standard changes with what the restaurants are serving, that assessment would be anachronistic. Still, it is possible for a haute cuisine restaurant to serve a dish that doesn't work or qualify as haute cuisine. It happens.

[jaybee]

In a way, this discussion reminds me of an experience we had in a small Pennsylvania town where we were attending a large antiques fair. We asked someone at the motel

for suggestions for restaurants, and he began to describe the options (Chilis, Steak & Brew etc.), all of which we rejected. He asked what we were looking for and we said a place that serves really good French, "continental" or Italian food or had a very good chef. He then brightened and said "Oh, you want fine dining, and sent us to a place that came as close to what one would call haute cuisine as was available in the town. The meal was excellent. "Fine dining" was a new appellation for us, but I guess it is the operative way to say Haute Cuisine or expensive.

[Fat Guy]

Jaybee, to continue that point, it's important to remeber that haute cuisine doesn't have to be good. It's still haute cuisine even if it sucks. Haute cuisine is a description of a style rather than an assessment of quality.

Also, we're using a term that came into being well before nouvelle cuisine and culinary minimalism. These movements make it far more difficult to generalize about haute cuisine than it would have been in the days of Careme and Escoffier. Minimalism, in particular, cuts the heart out of the concept of elaborateness that we could have used to describe haute cuisine in days of yore. Haute cuisine is an overarching category that encompasses many schools of cuisine. The one thing that seems to connect them all is that they're served in "fine dining" restaurants.

[Jinmyo]

Actually, "fine dining" is the common appelation in Canada, I think.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Well in France you would go up to the "Haute de Cagnes," which is what they call the old walled in town of Cagnes-sur-Mer because it is up on the top of a mountain. The heights of Cagnes is what they are saying. When they say haute cuisine or haute couture, what they are trying to express is that this is design or cooking at the highest level. And to use my favorite peasant/haute cuisine example, and this goes to Fat Guy's point as well, the Robuchon mashed potatoes are haute cuisine because that is how he is trying to present them. That he happened to be super successful at it has nothing to do with the fact that it is a h-c presentation. They could have been lousy but still h-c.

Fat Guy - This is why I think regardless of how one considers offshoots of h-c like nouvelle cuisine, as long as the dish properly expresses the goal, cuisine expressed at the highest level, it fits the description. A bistro does not intend to express food at its highest level. It intends to express it on a level that is comforting and homelike (hamische is a better word.) As a technical matter, and maybe some of the chefs here can chime in, how much of the difference rests on h-c being built around pre-existing stocks and bistro cuisine creating gravys and liquids based on the actual braising of what is going to be served?