The future generation of French stars...

[julot-les-pinceaux]

Absolutely. 29 is an age for three stars, not two. See Le calandre. In any case, those records never last. Heinz Winkler was once the youngest three stars (in Tantris), and he now is the longest holding three-star restaurants out of France.

[Ptipois]

You don't think 42 euros - $63 USD is peanuts?  Or perhaps I don't have the right numbers?  Robyn

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For the average Parisian diner that I am, and for thousands of others like me, it is certainly not peanuts. And I'm not particularly in the underprivileged category.

[MichaelCE]

Hey everyone! Considering most people on here are fairly avid diners and have an obvious interest in food (if you don't then you took a really bad turn when searching for the latest football results on google!), what/who do you think are the next generation of stars in France? I don't just mean two stars waiting to become three stars, I also mean the local restaurant waiting for their first star or the new bakery/patisserie who are producing some really good stuff etc etc.

I'm sure there are similar threads to this one but I haven't managed to find one!

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Going back to the original question of young no-star chefs with star potential: I suggest Mickaël Gracieux at L'Aromate and Benjamin Bruno at Le Diamant Noir, both in Nice, and Laurent Poulet at La Table du Cap in St-Jean-Cap-Ferrat.

[robyn]

You don't think 42 euros - $63 USD is peanuts?  Or perhaps I don't have the right numbers?  Robyn

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For the average Parisian diner that I am, and for thousands of others like me, it is certainly not peanuts. And I'm not particularly in the underprivileged category.

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Let me rephrase what I said. 42 euros isn't peanuts - but it's peanuts for a really fine dining experience anywhere - even in Jacksonville FL ("hicksville" compared to Paris) - where one of our better restaurants will cost you $65 ++ (tax and tip). Perhaps one additional reason why Spring is relatively inexpensive is that it only serves a single menu to everyone - and it knows how many covers it will have on a given night. That way - it minimizes waste in terms of food costs.

If you were to recommend a single up and coming chef for me to try in Paris - preferably the kind with one star who might be on his/her way to three - who would you recommend? Robyn

[Ptipois]

Let me rephrase what I said.  42 euros isn't peanuts - but it's peanuts for a really fine dining experience anywhere - even in Jacksonville FL ("hicksville" compared to Paris) - where one of our better restaurants will cost you $65 ++ (tax and tip).  Perhaps one additional reason why Spring is relatively inexpensive is that it only serves a single menu to everyone - and it knows how many covers it will have on a given night.  That way - it minimizes waste in terms of food costs.

If you were to recommend a single up and coming chef for me to try in Paris - preferably the kind with one star who might be on his/her way to three - who would you recommend?  Robyn

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Well simply I think the reason for Spring being medium-priced is that it is more in the néobistrot category, with a tiny dining-room, no ambition whatsoever to walk on the path of what is called "fine dining", and a highly personal philosophy.

As for your recommendation, I think you should try Alexandre Bourdas at Sa.qua.na in Honfleur, but I do not see anyone fitting your description in Paris, at least no one that I know of.

[John Talbott]

Host's Note: I would like to redirect this back to the topic title "The future generation of French stars". A discussion of whether 32 or 42 or 50 Euros constitutes a lot or a little so depends on where you live, what your income/budget is, your expectations, etc., that I think it is almost an unanswerable query. Thanks

[robyn]

...As for your recommendation, I think you should try Alexandre Bourdas at Sa.qua.na in Honfleur, but I do not see anyone fitting your description in Paris, at least no one that I know of.

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That is a somewhat depressing statement about Paris. Sounds like things are kind of stagnant. We are actually considering spending a few days outside of Paris at the end of our trip - so I looked up Sa.qua.na. Best I can tell (my French isn't that terrific) - the restaurant only offers fixed menus. Is that correct? There are certain things I can't eat - so I prefer restaurants which also offer the option of a la carte.

I realize he doesn't exactly fit into the category of this topic - but what about Nicolas Le Bec in Lyon (he is still pretty young - in his 30's I believe)? Or any other chef in the Lyon area for that matter. Robyn

[Ptipois]

That is a somewhat depressing statement about Paris.  Sounds like things are kind of stagnant.  We are actually considering spending a few days outside of Paris at the end of our trip - so I looked up Sa.qua.na.  Best I can tell (my French isn't that terrific) - the restaurant only offers fixed menus.  Is that correct?  There are certain things I can't eat - so I prefer restaurants which also offer the option of a la carte.

I realize he doesn't exactly fit into the category of this topic - but what about Nicolas Le Bec in Lyon (he is still pretty young - in his 30's I believe)?  Or any other chef in the Lyon area for that matter.  Robyn

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Well, I wrote "not that I know of". I am far from knowing all the young talents in Paris. I would not say things are stagnant, they probably are if what you're looking for is hot young chefs, but not if you just want to eat well. But as a general rule, in Paris, I prefer other types of cooking (bistrot, brasserie, regional, Asian, Maghrebi, etc.) over much high end dining and I am no longer very interested in "innovative talents" unless they are graced with a strong, poetical personality, which is the case of Spring and Daniel Rose. When I come across what could be described as a "promising new talent", eight times out of ten it is in the regions, not in Paris. As a matter of fact many of the most promising young chefs picked by the latest Omnivore guide are not in Paris. Still I think there are interesting young Parisian chefs, like Daniel Rose, Petter Nilsson, Inaki and a few others. And sometimes the map has to be updated, for instance I have been warmly recommending Le Pré Verre until recently, and negative recent experiences have led me to stop recommending it, much to my disappointment. Paris is a difficult place. Some nice restaurants eventually turn bad (Comptoir de l'Odéon syndrome).

About Sa.qua.na, they do offer fixed menus but you can tell them in advance what you can eat or not.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Ptipois (log)

[robyn]

If you live in Paris - it is natural that you would want to try a variety of places - and eat well. After all - you are probably dining out more in a month in Paris than I - as a visitor - will do in a decade. As a visitor - I have a very specific goal - to eat excellent ---> great *French* food. If I want Asian - I will go to Asia. E.g., we had fantastic Japanese food in Japan - so I have no desire to find the best Japanese restaurants in France - much like I didn't even bother to try any French restaurants in Japan - although I'm sure some of them are quite excellent - the goal of eating in Japan was to learn about Japanese cuisine. Similarly - when at home - if I can find decent Chinese food - I'll eat it. If I waited to find excellent Chinese food here - I'd probably go 20 years between Chinese meals .

As for ordering off a fixed menu - I always find it awkward - even at home. And don't like to do it when abroad. Robyn

[Ptipois]

If you live in Paris - it is natural that you would want to try a variety of places - and eat well.  After all - you are probably dining out more in a month in Paris than I - as a visitor - will do in a decade.  As a visitor - I have a very specific goal - to eat excellent ---> great *French* food.  If I want Asian - I will go to Asia.  E.g., we had fantastic Japanese food in Japan - so I have no desire to find the best Japanese restaurants in France - much like I didn't even bother to try any French restaurants in Japan - although I'm sure some of them are quite excellent - the goal of eating in Japan was to learn about Japanese cuisine.  Similarly - when at home - if I can find decent Chinese food - I'll eat it.  If I waited to find excellent Chinese food here - I'd probably go 20 years between Chinese meals .

As for ordering off a fixed menu - I always find it awkward - even at home.  And don't like to do it when abroad.  Robyn

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Well, this is not because I want to try a variety of places. It is just that the places I mentioned do interest me more than the current buzz. I like "innovative" cuisine but it is not my favorite (and by the way it is not really a style, it's a feeling).

Actually if you want great French food in the exact sense of the term, hot young chefs in Paris are not what you are looking for. They do not represent "great French food" but a certain style of increasingly internationalized, stylized cuisine — exciting as it may be.

Apart from the use of local produce there is very little that differentiates a hot young chef in Copenhagen, in Paris or in Singapore. They all make espumas and dashi, they all include foie gras here and there, they have all discovered the finger lime. As France goes, this is particularly true in Paris. "Great French" is represented by the bistrot, néobistrot, brasserie, traditional restaurant trend and by some starred chefs but it is rare that the "promising young chefs" do offer anything specifically French. Which explains why I tend to prefer those who work in the regions, because they are somewhat still attached to the land by a few strings.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Ptipois (log)

[robyn]

Well, this is not because I want to try a variety of places. It is just that the places I mentioned do interest me more than the current buzz. I like "innovative" cuisine but it is not my favorite (and by the way it is not really a style, it's a feeling).

Actually if you want great French food in the exact sense of the term, hot young chefs in Paris are not what you are looking for. They do not represent "great French food" but a certain style of increasingly internationalized, stylized cuisine — exciting as it may be.

Apart from the use of local produce there is very little that differentiates a hot young chef in Copenhagen, in Paris or in Singapore. They all make espumas and dashi, they all include foie gras here and there, they have all discovered the finger lime. As France goes, this is particularly true in Paris. "Great French" is represented by the bistrot, néobistrot, brasserie, traditional restaurant trend and by some starred chefs but it is rare that the "promising young chefs" do offer anything specifically French. Which explains why I tend to prefer those who work in the regions, because they are somewhat still attached to the land by a few strings.

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I like "innovative" cuisine as long as it doesn't involve eating as if one's meal is a chemistry experiment .

I understand what you mean about "increasingly internationalized stylized cuisine" - and it really isn't my cup of tea. It is one thing to have gone to Nobu when it first opened in New York - which I did (lucked out with reservations - the chef's kids were my cousin's dental patients ) - but I don't have to go to Nobus all over the world. Philippe Starck has remarked that even though he has to travel a lot - for business - he really doesn't like to these days - because everything everywhere is starting to look the same. So he might as well stay home.

And I thank you for your observation that the promising young chefs in France who do still offer a sense of "terroir" tend to be outside Paris. I am not a total "locavore" when I travel - but I like places with a distinct sense of "terroir". Perhaps that is one reason I enjoy trips to California for "California cuisine" so much - or trips to places like Texas to eat real Texas BBQ. If you were to visit where I live - I'm sure you'd prefer to try a good local chef's take on our local shrimp and grits than have a steak at a national chain restaurant.

I am rethinking our trip as we speak - and will definitely plan to spend time outside Paris. Probably in Lyon - because it is a quick easy train trip from Paris (my husband's days of driving in Europe are over) - and a distinctive culinary area of France. In past trips to France - we have been to many places near Lyon - but have never been in Lyon proper. So it will be a new experience for us. Which is always fun. I am not sure what we will find - but we will explore.

As an aside to anyone who is planning a trip - I was surprised that the roundtrip first class TGV from Paris to Lyon for 2 "seniors" (60+) was only about $190. It is certainly a heck of a lot cheaper than renting a car and driving. Robyn

[PhilD]

Hey everyone! Considering most people on here are fairly avid diners and have an obvious interest in food (if you don't then you took a really bad turn when searching for the latest football results on google!), what/who do you think are the next generation of stars in France? I don't just mean two stars waiting to become three stars, I also mean the local restaurant waiting for their first star or the new bakery/patisserie who are producing some really good stuff etc etc.

I'm sure there are similar threads to this one but I haven't managed to find one!

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How about Jerome Legras who is cooking at La Veranda? I also imagine Simone Zanoni is also very good and cooking at Gordon Ramay au Trianon.