Options for Duplicating a Recipe

[Josho]

Here's the situation.

There's a Japanese restaurant near us called Koto. Apparently it's one of a small chain.

They serve a sauce there that my wife and I find absolutely sublime. My wife, in fact, would use it every day if she could. So I've been trying to duplicate it.

I've identified most of the ingredients: a mayonnaise base (likely Kewpie), grated onion, horseradish, mustard (probably Dijon), soy sauce. But I'm pretty positive there are one or two other things, too.

I have tried offering to pay the chef for the recipe. I've tried approaching him through the manager. I've tried reconstructing the recipe at home...I don't know how many times I've attempted that, but I know I've gone through several bottles of horseradish and mayo and mustard.

At this point, I'm getting way frustrated. I've heard of labs analyzing food, but I'm skeptical that this can be done for an actual recipe...and even more skeptical that this can be done for a reasonable cost.

I'm looking for creative solutions to duplicating (or acquiring) the recipe. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be delighted to hear them.

--Josh

[Fat Guy]

Have you tried adding MSG?

[kreed]

Here are some similar recipes I found doing a search:

"Bombay sauce" :

1 T sugar 1 t each garlic salt curry powder horseradish grated onion cider vinegar 1/2 c sour cream 1/2 cup mayo

Maybe this with mayo mixed in?

Horseradish Mustard

* ½ c mustard powder

* ½ c hot water

* ½ c white wine vinegar or rice vinegar

* 2 tsp salt

* 1 tblsp prepared horseradish

* 2 cloves garlic, finely minced

* 1 tsp sugar

* 1/8 tsp black pepper

* 1/8 tsp ground allspice

* additional vinegar, if necessary

Mix the dry mustard and water and let stand for 20 minutes, stirring once or twice. In a blender container, combine the vinegar, salt, horseradish, garlic, sugar, pepper, and allspice. Process until the garlic and horseradish have been pureed, then strain through a fine-meshed strainer, pressing out the juice from any pulp in the strainer. Discard the material in the strainer. In the top of a double boiler, combine the strained liquid with the mustard-water paste. Cook over simmering water for about 5 minutes, until the mustard has begun to thicken (it will continue to thicken as it cools). Remove from heat and allow to cool. If the mustard is too thick, thin it with a few drops of additional vinegar. Place in a glass jar with a tight lid, and let sit in a dark cupboard for 4-5 weeks before using. Refrigerate after opening. Makes about ½ cup.

"Donn's Delight"

Donn’s Delight

4 oz Maytag blue crumbled

1 cup of mayo ( I use Kraft)

3 oz ( about 1/3 cup) milk or cream

2 tsps sugar

2 tsps dried parsley

1 ½ Tablespoons lemon juice

1 ½ Tablespoons cider vinegar

1 Tablespoon fresh grated onion

1 Tsp Lee and Perrins worchestershire

1 tsp horseradish

½ tspoon garlic powder.

Mix gently so as to leave some lumps, and serve over a green salad or on sliced tomatoes or cukes and onions or as a dip for raw veggies.

Serves about 6 to 8

"spicy shrimp sauce"

1 cup Kewpie mayonnaise

1/2 cup Sriracha chili sauce

1 tsp ground hot mustard

1 tbsp bottled horseradish ( bottled in water, vinegar and salt only )

> (usually have to get this in a gourmet market)

1/8 tsp ground cayenne pepper

2 pieces of fresh garlic ( place in garlic press ) (not the whole garlic clove, unless you REALLY like garlic)

Juice from 1/2 of a fresh lime

What I do when I am trying to recreate a recipe is look for recipes that may be close to the desired recipe and see what other people use in them. Sometimes I put my guessed ingredients into google and see what comes up. All of the above recipes were found that way and all are readily available on the internet.

[kbjesq]

Here's the situation.

There's a Japanese restaurant near us called Koto. Apparently it's one of a small chain.

They serve a sauce there that my wife and I find absolutely sublime. My wife, in fact, would use it every day if she could. So I've been trying to duplicate it.

I've identified most of the ingredients: a mayonnaise base (likely Kewpie), grated onion, horseradish, mustard (probably Dijon), soy sauce. But I'm pretty positive there are one or two other things, too.

I have tried offering to pay the chef for the recipe. I've tried approaching him through the manager. I've tried reconstructing the recipe at home...I don't know how many times I've attempted that, but I know I've gone through several bottles of horseradish and mayo and mustard.

At this point, I'm getting way frustrated. I've heard of labs analyzing food, but I'm skeptical that this can be done for an actual recipe...and even more skeptical that this can be done for a reasonable cost.

I'm looking for creative solutions to duplicating (or acquiring) the recipe. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be delighted to hear them.

--Josh

←

What is the name of the sauce and how is it served? It seems like there are a lot of people out there trying to find recipes for white sauce/yum-yum sauce/shrimp sauce as served in American Japanese Steakhouses (I'm doubting that these same sauces would actually be served in Japan). For example: http://japanese-steakhouse-white-sauce.com/

[Josho]

Wow!

Well, the sauce doesn't have a name. In fact, they call it "Mustard Sauce" (and it's served primarily at the Hibachi tables, for dipping vegetables and shrimp). But I think the predominant flavor is horseradish, and there's definitely grated onion in it.

The sauce's color is about as pale as straight mayonnaise; there are no colored flecks in it at all, and I don't detect any garlic either. There might be some Sriracha, but if so, it would have to be a very tiny amount since there really is no hint of redness to the sauce.

I've tried a few of the "horseradish/mustard"-type sauces on the web, and none of them come close.

Hey, if anyone out there considers him/herself an expert at recreating these things, maybe I can arrange to ship a little of the sauce.

--Josh

[Fugu]

Maybe it's daikon and not horseradish mixed with the mayonnaise?

[FastTalkingHighTrousers]

I like this one:

2 tablespoons dry mustard

1 1/2 teaspoons sugar

5 tablespoons milk

2 tablespoons cream

2 tablespoons hot water

1 tablespoon sesame seeds, lightly toasted

1/4 cup soy sauce

1 garlic clove, minced

Blend and drink ... or dip some deliciousness in it.

[ChefCrash]

Well, the sauce doesn't have a name. In fact, they call it "Mustard Sauce" (and it's served primarily at the Hibachi tables, for dipping vegetables and shrimp). But I think the predominant flavor is horseradish, and there's definitely grated onion in it.

2 T mayo

1 tsp yellow mustard (French's)

1 tsp prepared horseradish

thin with red wine vinegar

soy sauce to taste.

[Josho]

Well, the sauce doesn't have a name. In fact, they call it "Mustard Sauce" (and it's served primarily at the Hibachi tables, for dipping vegetables and shrimp). But I think the predominant flavor is horseradish, and there's definitely grated onion in it.

2 T mayo

1 tsp yellow mustard (French's)

1 tsp prepared horseradish

thin with red wine vinegar

soy sauce to taste.

←

That's the closest-sounding one so far -- although the manager confirmed for me the presence of grated onion. I'll give this a try and see how it work.

Actually, the manager confirmed for me ALL the ingredients I've mentioned (mustard, horseradish, soy, mayo, onion), but wouldn't go any farther than that. I'm doing everything I can to cajole him to wrest the recipe from the chef.

--Josh

[mcohen]

At this point, I'm getting way frustrated. I've heard of labs analyzing food, but I'm skeptical that this can be done for an actual recipe...and even more skeptical that this can be done for a reasonable cost.

Yep, it would be pretty expensive. I remember listening to a food podcast about a similar situation with the person who writes 'table manners' on chowhound. And, if I recall correctly, it was going to cost tens of thousands, maybe a hundred thousand, to do that.

[Jon Savage]

I'd venture to guess there is also a touch of Dashi in the mix as well.

[nickrey]

My bet is that the mayonnaise is made with rice vinegar and a small amount of MSG. They've also added karashi (Japanese mustard) and soy sauce. You say they also add grated onion. If it has a bit more complexity in heat on the palate, try some wasabi as well.

There is a very popular Japanese mayonnaise called Kewpie brand in a plastic squeeze bottle. They may potentially have used this and added some ingredients to it to make it their house sauce.

ps. why not try the Japanese cooking and recipes section of the forum? People reading there are likely to have a deal of knowledge in this area

Edited July 1, 2008 by nickrey (log)

[Josho]

Hi, Nick,

I do use Kewpie whenever I'm cooking an Asian dish that calls for mayonnaise. I know it's got MSG already in it...

I will check out the Asian section as you suggest. That totally slipped my mind!

Thanks,

Josh

[jgm]

My sympathies. I went through this trying to get a local restaurant's mushroom soup recipe. I became almost desperate; my husband and I just could not get enough of the soup. I tried several recipes at home and could not duplicate it.

A co-worker actually had a sister who was divorced from a guy who used to cook at the restaurant. After I approached her a few times about the possibility of staging a reconciliation (with the idea of using that connection to get the recipe), she looked at me one day and said, "I've just realized you're serious about this. What part of 'no' don't you understand? They hate each other and even thinking about each other makes both of them homicidal. Forget it." <sigh> <dejected walk back to my desk>

Then I tried to get several young friends to get jobs there. That didn't work, either. "But...but....I hear the tips are good! Maybe you could just work weekends until someone tells you!"

I did get a waitress to tell me it had a "mushroom base" that they purchased, plus white wine. Finally, I stumbled onto Bourdain's recipe in the Les Halles cookbook; substituting white wine for the sherry and adding a little cream did the trick. You can't tell the difference. Victory!

Moral of the story: when ordinary means won't work, resort to subterfuge. Bribes. Spies. Whatever it takes. Just persist.

And do share the recipe with us when you finally figure it out.

And for a little humor to amuse you while you're working at it, go to Recipe Gullet and search for "Divorce Salad Dressing."