Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

Richard Kilgore

Kitchen Cleanup: sponges and alternatives

Recommended Posts

This may be of interest to some.

Via Dr. O. Peter Snyder's website.

THE MICROBIOLOGY OF DISHCLOTHS IN THE HOME KITCHEN

 

  • Like 1

~Martin

Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist, contrarian and natural born skeptic who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim D.   
On 8/20/2017 at 8:20 AM, DiggingDogFarm said:

This may be of interest to some.

Via Dr. O. Peter Snyder's website.

THE MICROBIOLOGY OF DISHCLOTHS IN THE HOME KITCHEN

 

It is indeed of interest, and I think this thread is very Important, but I am confused by the final statement:

 

Quote

Among other answers to this problem is the FDA food code recommendation: "Keep the cleaning cloths in the sanitizer bucket." This practice does not prevent the microbial population from increasing, because after an hour or so, the organic material obtained from cleaning neutralizes the sanitizer and the microorganisms begin to multiply. 

 

My first reaction is to ask why keep the cloths in the sanitizer bucket if it does NOT prevent the microbial population from increasing. Am I missing something?

 

I may have missed it, but I didn't notice any statement in the thread about whether keeping a cloth or sponge constantly submerged in sanitizer solution (such as bleach and water) takes care of things.

 

 


Edited by Jim D. (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

It is indeed of interest, and I think this thread is very mportant, but I am confused by the final statement:

 

 

My first reaction is to ask why keep the cloths in the sanitizer bucket if it does NOT prevent the microbial population from increasing. Am I missing something?

 

I may have missed it, but I didn't notice any statement in the thread about whether keeping a cloth or sponge constantly submerged in sanitizer solution (such as bleach and water) takes care of things.

 

 

 

That would be a good question for Dr. Snyder, but, unfortunately, he's now retired.

Maybe there's something more to be found somewhere on his website.


~Martin

Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist, contrarian and natural born skeptic who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Porthos   

" "Keep the cleaning cloths in the sanitizer bucket." This practice does not prevent the microbial population from increasing, because after an hour or so, the organic material obtained from cleaning neutralizes the sanitizer and the microorganisms begin to multiply. "

 

I am having a problem with this statement since it runs counter to California's standard practice of keeping "sanitizing solution with a rag in it" for santizing surfaces. When the health inspectors come to the facility that my wife works in seasonly, the inspectors check to make sure the sanitizer solution in the bucket with a cloth are prepared and ready for use. I can't find any entry in CURFFL stating that it has to be dumped and prepared fresh again every hour.

 

Edited for clarity.


Edited by Porthos (log)

Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may have been an old FDA food code recommendation. And the exact context, in terms of the code, isn't clear.

 


Edited by DiggingDogFarm (log)
  • Like 1

~Martin

Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist, contrarian and natural born skeptic who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gfweb   

I don't have any idea what code is, but It would depend on what the sanitizer is, I think.

 

Some eg chlorine  are volatile and eventually will lose their zip. Detergents are less-so, but will be inactivated by too much biologic material in solution.  I cannot imagine a sanitizer that is active forever.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Porthos   

@gfweb Agreed.

 

Over the past several years I have asked various small kitchen operators here in California what they use for their sanitizer. Every last one has used bleach. Bleach is cheap, can be purchased just about anywhere and requires less contact time than other sanitizers save water that has been raised to a sanitizing temperature and I've only seen that in machines.

 

I keep a supply of chlorine test strips (retail operations that use bleach are required to have them) and test my sanitizer when made up and after that as circumstances warrant. I don't keep a perfect kitchen at home but I do take care with food contact surfaces. My DW has a weakened immune system and I don't care to cause her harm.

 

Each one of us has to choose what they deem the best. Bleach water sanitizer is my personal choice.

  • Like 1

Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dcarch   

There are many types of sponges, including natural sponges.

Interesting to read about natural sponges from WiKi:

 

"-------------------------------

Antibiotic compounds

Sponges have medicinal potential due to the presence in sponges themselves or their microbial symbionts of chemicals that may be used to control viruses, bacteria, tumors and fungi.[89][90]

Other biologically active compounds 

Lacking any protective shell or means of escape, sponges have evolved to synthesize a variety of unusual compounds. One such class is the oxidized fatty acid derivatives called oxylipins. Members of this family have been found to have anti-cancer, anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties. One example isolated from the Okinawan plakortis sponges, plakoridine A, has shown potential as a cytotoxin to murine lymphoma cells ----------------"

 dcarch

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gfweb   
47 minutes ago, Porthos said:

@gfweb Agreed.

 

Over the past several years I have asked various small kitchen operators here in California what they use for their sanitizer. Every last one has used bleach. Bleach is cheap, can be purchased just about anywhere and requires less contact time than other sanitizers save water that has been raised to a sanitizing temperature and I've only seen that in machines.

 

I keep a supply of chlorine test strips (retail operations that use bleach are required to have them) and test my sanitizer when made up and after that as circumstances warrant. I don't keep a perfect kitchen at home but I do take care with food contact surfaces. My DW has a weakened immune system and I don't care to cause her harm.

 

Each one of us has to choose what they deem the best. Bleach water sanitizer is my personal choice.

So how long does your bleach soln last?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Porthos   

I did a poor job of expressing myself by mixing faire kitchen and home kitchen items. Truly my bad.

 

At home if I choose bleach solution instead of using Clorox Anywhere once I am done with the sanitizing I dump the bleach water and use Clorox Anywhere for spot sanitizing as I go while cooking.

 

I would have to ask my wife about how long it lasts them in the commercial kitchen operation that I mentioned above.

 

In my faire kitchen we use bleach water for sanitizing at the dish-washing station and disposable cleaning/sanitizing wipes from Costco for counters and such. I do a bleach water wipe down of all the counters when I first open the kitchen on Friday evenings but dump the solution when I am done.

 

Next month I will try monitoring the sanitizing solution while my DW is working.  I normally steer clear of that operation. 

 

Rotten answers, I know. Best I can do at the moment. 

  • Like 1

Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, gfweb said:

I don't have any idea what code is

 

The 'official' government code of regulations and such.

They can be found somewhere on their website—it's been a long time since I've researched them and the website and such has changed a lot. https://www.fda.gov/Food/default.htm

  • Like 1

~Martin

Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist, contrarian and natural born skeptic who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the dairy farm(s) we used a LOT of bleach!!!

I don't use much at home—a container lasts a year or so.


~Martin

Unsupervised rebellious radical agrarian experimenter, minimalist penny-pincher, self-reliant homesteader and adventurous cook. Crotchety cantankerous terse curmudgeon, nonconformist, contrarian and natural born skeptic who questions everything!

The best thing about a vegetable garden is all the meat you can hunt and trap out of it! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Porthos said:

I did a poor job of expressing myself by mixing faire kitchen and home kitchen items. Truly my bad.

 

At home if I choose bleach solution instead of using Clorox Anywhere once I am done with the sanitizing I dump the bleach water and use Clorox Anywhere for spot sanitizing as I go while cooking.

 

I would have to ask my wife about how long it lasts them in the commercial kitchen operation that I mentioned above.

 

In my faire kitchen we use bleach water for sanitizing at the dish-washing station and disposable cleaning/sanitizing wipes from Costco for counters and such. I do a bleach water wipe down of all the counters when I first open the kitchen on Friday evenings but dump the solution when I am done.

 

Next month I will try monitoring the sanitizing solution while my DW is working.  I normally steer clear of that operation. 

 

Rotten answers, I know. Best I can do at the moment. 

Here in my neck of the woods, the rule is that you make up a fresh batch of bleach sanitizer each day. I used quaternary ammonia sanitizer at my restaurant and mixed a fresh batch...um...monthly, IIRC. 


Fat=flavor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×