Saratoga Springs - '08, '09 Racing Seasons

[ELA]

I believe Mare has been sold twice; not sure of its present incarnation. Unlikely Paradiso will open but Villa Balsamo probably will. Definitely Max London's. Today's Saratogian has an article stating that a "popular restaurant" will be opening in the condominium portion of the new Hampton Inn hotel on lower Lake Ave. Who knows? Probably a chain. Don't forget Hattie's. They are working furiously on a rebirth of Limoncello in the old KFC/Indian restaurant location on Route 50. Never went to the old Broadway location, so I can't comment on it.

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Hmmm, sold twice? So, DZ sells the restaurant, I remember hearing about it, reading about the people who bought it, etc. Actually, last summer, someone I knew had a party there and I met one of the owners. I don't remember the guys name. Recently, I heard (and read) that the place was up for sale, but at the same time they were looking for a "strategic partner" who would take over management (I think). The article was in one of the local papers, maybe the Saratogian.

The place is certainly nice -- very chic, unique, kind of that "South Beach" think going on a bit. Outside, the couches, tables, bed/cabana-type set up is cool, as long as the weather cooperates. The upstairs veranda is nice too. The club in the back, the one time I went in -- I couldn't breathe. I am telling you the place was like a sauna. Unbearable, and it wasn't because it was crowded. The upstairs "apartment" 3rd floor -- very nice.

However, the food -- was more show than go. Four of us went there to eat. We were rushed by the waiter right from the get-go. He was standing there waiting for us to sit down and tried to take drink orders before we even sat down. We order drinks, and he's right back (without drinks) asking us if we've looked at the menu and wanting to tell us about the specials. Note -- First, I didn't expect the drinks as it was far too quick, and that tells you how quickly he came back, and secondand, all 4 of us still had the menu's closed on the table. After telling him twice we weren't ready to order, it just started getting uncomfortable.

Anyway -- nice presentation, small portions, food (overall) somewhat bland, and service I already addressed.

I don't know the overhead, economics, costs, etc. -- but a place like this should be able to do super! A split personality -- a very nice restaurant, and then a very nice club.

So, for those of you who know the area . . . why not? What's going on here?

Thanks.

Eric

[docsconz]

Fans of Lanci's should make a point of getting there as much as possible this summer s they will be closing after the season.

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Why? What's the story? Thanks.

Eric

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I think that John Lanci is just looking to do other things.

[docsconz]

I believe Mare has been sold twice; not sure of its present incarnation. Unlikely Paradiso will open but Villa Balsamo probably will. Definitely Max London's. Today's Saratogian has an article stating that a "popular restaurant" will be opening in the condominium portion of the new Hampton Inn hotel on lower Lake Ave. Who knows? Probably a chain. Don't forget Hattie's. They are working furiously on a rebirth of Limoncello in the old KFC/Indian restaurant location on Route 50. Never went to the old Broadway location, so I can't comment on it.

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Hmmm, sold twice? So, DZ sells the restaurant, I remember hearing about it, reading about the people who bought it, etc. Actually, last summer, someone I knew had a party there and I met one of the owners. I don't remember the guys name. Recently, I heard (and read) that the place was up for sale, but at the same time they were looking for a "strategic partner" who would take over management (I think). The article was in one of the local papers, maybe the Saratogian.

The place is certainly nice -- very chic, unique, kind of that "South Beach" think going on a bit. Outside, the couches, tables, bed/cabana-type set up is cool, as long as the weather cooperates. The upstairs veranda is nice too. The club in the back, the one time I went in -- I couldn't breathe. I am telling you the place was like a sauna. Unbearable, and it wasn't because it was crowded. The upstairs "apartment" 3rd floor -- very nice.

However, the food -- was more show than go. Four of us went there to eat. We were rushed by the waiter right from the get-go. He was standing there waiting for us to sit down and tried to take drink orders before we even sat down. We order drinks, and he's right back (without drinks) asking us if we've looked at the menu and wanting to tell us about the specials. Note -- First, I didn't expect the drinks as it was far too quick, and that tells you how quickly he came back, and secondand, all 4 of us still had the menu's closed on the table. After telling him twice we weren't ready to order, it just started getting uncomfortable.

Anyway -- nice presentation, small portions, food (overall) somewhat bland, and service I already addressed.

I don't know the overhead, economics, costs, etc. -- but a place like this should be able to do super! A split personality -- a very nice restaurant, and then a very nice club.

So, for those of you who know the area . . . why not? What's going on here?

Thanks.

Eric

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This story defines DZ's places to me. I'm not surprised if it continued that way since being sold.

[ELA]

Fans of Lanci's should make a point of getting there as much as possible this summer s they will be closing after the season.

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Why? What's the story? Thanks.

Eric

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I think that John Lanci is just looking to do other things.

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I really like this place. This is the obvious one -- that if they moved to a larger space (slightly larger, still keeping everything "under control") they'd do great! I know, I know -- easier said than done, and not always true.

I don't know how they do year-round, but during the summer they are packed every night.

Eric

[ELA]

This story defines DZ's places to me. I'm not surprised if it continued that way since being sold.

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I don't know him at all. I met him once in the place at the end of Broadway. A few years ago I saw him working the room at Chianti (the old location of course), and I saw him a Mare a few times. Apparently he's become very well known though. What's the new Chianti like? My wife always liked the old one, so now that it's in our building, I'm afraid she'll want to eat there every night, LOL.

Anyway, sometimes, you get those places that struggle between a club/lounge and a restaurant. They have an "identity crisis" so to speak. Or, it's on purpose. Hey, I am not an industry expert so I am not throwing stones. I think very often when you see places that truly lead with the club/lounge thing, or they get to that point, the food, restaurant, chef, etc. never really get to grow, mature, progress, strut their stuff, and so on. Sometimes, the restaurant becomes, almost, an afterthought.

So, did the people sell it or find a management partner (like they were looking for)? I think the asking price was $550k -- and that was in the article. No other details. I don't know enough about downtown Saratoga, year-round, to speak to anything about the economics.

Peppers Deli was for sale at one time as well.

Eric

Edited July 6, 2008 by ELA (log)

[markabauman]

Pepper's Deli has reopened. I believe a cousin of the previous owner now runs it.

According to the article in the Saratogian about Lanci's Ristorante closing, the Lanci's themselves will launch a new venture in leading food and wine tours to Italy, most specifically to the region of Le Marche, little known to most tourists in terms of place and food. It promises to be an "insider" tour introducing the participants to places that otherwise would not be known, discerned or available to the usual tourist. I'm waiting to hear more details, but seems a little intriguing, as I'm not usually a "tour" person. I recently read Franco Romagnoli's "Italy, the Romagnoli Way" and it certainly presents an off the beaten path, less travelled, more interesting, more local approach to travel in Italy.

[ELA]

Pepper's Deli has reopened. I believe a cousin of the previous owner now runs it.

According to the article in the Saratogian about Lanci's Ristorante closing, the Lanci's themselves will launch a new venture in leading food and wine tours to Italy, most specifically to the region of Le Marche, little known to most tourists in terms of place and food. It promises to be an "insider" tour introducing the participants to places that otherwise would not be known, discerned or available to the usual tourist. I'm waiting to hear more details, but seems a little intriguing, as I'm not usually a "tour" person. I recently read Franco Romagnoli's "Italy, the Romagnoli Way" and it certainly presents an off the beaten path, less travelled, more interesting, more local approach to travel in Italy.

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Interesting. Like I said, Lanci's always did well during the racing season. I don't how the place did economically, but they were always busy. Personally, I think this is a loss for Saratoga dining.

I didn't know Pepper's was closed. Are they closed throughout the year? Seasonally? Anyway, don't get me wrong -- I really like the place. Their breakfast sandwiches are super, and some of their wraps are great. The service wasn't the greatest, and sometimes you feel uncomfortable asking questions, requesting a substitute, etc., but it's a very good local deli to go to. The other thing is that sometimes, I've gone in there and even though there is nobody else in there, or someone else has already ordered -- I've had to wait to just put in my order. I understand waiting before they start it or something of the like, but to wait to have to just put in my order? Seemed a bit odd. Don't get me wrong -- I'll always go back if the menu hasn't changed, LOL.

Thanks.

Eric

[docsconz]

I didn't get the impression that Lanci's is closing because it is not doing well. My impression was that John Lanci simply wants to do other things at this point in his life.

[ELA]

I didn't get the impression that Lanci's is closing because it is not doing well. My impression was that John Lanci simply wants to do other things at this point in his life.

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Glad to hear -- and good for him. That's a great thing.

Eric

[djzouke]

So, I hope I am not the only one interested in the Saratoga Springs happenings. I got up there a few times over the fall/winter/spring -- and was very busy so I didn't have to to "check things out" as much as I do during the racing season.

So what's new? Is Brindisi's back open, up and running? What about Chianti's new location? I've heard there are a few new spots worth going to? Any new night spots? Did Saratoga lose any places?

Anyone else getting ready?

Thanks.

Eric

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Eric, if being a winter hot-spot is any indication, Max London's Restaurant on Broadway will continue to be the place to dine and deservedly so. The food is well done Mediterranean featuring tapas style small plates from Spain, pastas and wonderful wood-fired pizze from Italy and a number of French inspired dishes as well. The wine list is interesting and reasonable. In addition, they probably have the most serious and possibly the best cocktail program currently in Saratoga. The space is lovely. The normally very good service will likely be stretched thin like everywhere else in Saratoga in the summer.

Beekman Street Bistro, Chez Sophie and Springwater Bistro continue as tried and true. Chianti is in a new location (ho-hum), though the restaurant never really appealed to me. I always saw t as more glitz thn substance. I'm suspicious when they take expensive wine bottles from the wine racks within the warm dining room.

Mouzon House has a wonderful space. It is a restaurant that I really, really want to love, but I have been disappointed the last few times that I have been.

Perhaps this will be the summer that I finally make it to Ciro's, however, living in the area, their season coincides with the time I try to avoid dining in Saratoga.

I have heard good things about Lanci's though I haven't been. Saratoga National Golf Course has a new restaurant, Prime, that surprise, features steaks. It replaces Sargo's and is related to Angelo's 677 Prime in Albany that I have heard positive comments about.

Speaking of golf courses, my favorite summer restaurant in the region is Farmhouse at Top of the World, overlooking beautiful Lake George. It is worth the trip for well prepared seasonal and local ingredients, much of which is grown on site. No restaurant in the area does more or better with local food.

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[djzouke]

Doc

Sorry to hear about Lanci's. We have yet to get there. It's now or never. How's the food at Tiz Now?

[docsconz]

Doc

Sorry to hear about Lanci's. We have yet to get there. It's now or never.  How's the food at Tiz Now?

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I've heard mostly good things about Tiz Now, though I haven't been personally.

[ELA]

Doc

Sorry to hear about Lanci's. We have yet to get there. It's now or never.  How's the food at Tiz Now?

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Here's what I am not certain of, and I might be confusing Tiznow with another place. Did they change chefs, redo the menu and change things up a bit? That's what I thought I heard. If that's the case, I don't know if it's recent, post-last season, or what. Maybe some web surfing will turn up some answers.

Regardless, I've been there several times. Nice place, open space, and a very nice bar area. I am somewhat of a picky eater and I found myself fighting the menu just a bit. Regardless, the food is good. I liked some of the appetizers, although without looking at the menu, I might not be able to tell you what I had -- but I know I enjoyed it.

It wasn't my "I want to go there every week" kind of place, but for a couple of times during the season, yes, I like it. I meet people there for a drink as well -- like I said, nice bar area, good drinks (of course that's reflective of the bartenders) and I think they have a martini menu so that's a selling point for me, LOL.

Eric

[djzouke]

Thanks doc & ella. We'll give it a try after the madness. Though Beekman is before in the sampling.

[djzouke]

Eric,

Tiznow (http://www.tiznowrestaurant.com/?gclid=CNqyguW7zJQCFQSwFQodd3Twlg) is across from The Parting Glass and near Scallions.

Doc,

take out a 2nd mortgage if you plan to go to Siro's.

[ELA]

Eric,

Tiznow (http://www.tiznowrestaurant.com/?gclid=CNqyguW7zJQCFQSwFQodd3Twlg) is across from The Parting Glass and near Scallions.

Doc,

take out a 2nd mortgage if you plan to go to Siro's.

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Thanks. I know exactly where it is, and like I said, I've been there numerous times. I just don't remember whether or not I fought the menu a bit, etc. It's one of the go to spots for the season.

I'll probably be there opening week -- at least for a drink.

Thanks.

Eric

[ELA]

So, how many people are local to Saratoga Springs?

First, I will be at the races on opening day in the event someone wants to say "hello", meet up for a drink, etc.

Second, how about meeting up in town for a drink later in the week? Hattie's? 9 Maple?

Does anyone know a place called "The Alley Bar" or something like that?

Eric

[docsconz]

So, how many people are local to Saratoga Springs?

First, I will be at the races on opening day in the event someone wants to say "hello", meet up for a drink, etc.

Second, how about meeting up in town for a drink later in the week? Hattie's? 9 Maple?

Does anyone know a place called "The Alley Bar" or something like that?

Eric

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I live in the area. Next weekend will be a busy one for me as we have our first events for our new Saratoga Region Slow Food Convivium.

Our events next weekend are based around the 6th Annual Salem Courthouse Al Fresco Dinner, which is modeled after the Sienese neighborhood dinners before the Palio race. We have organized a number of events around that dinner including a Slow Food dinner on Friday night (25th) at Farmhouse at Top of the World that will be attended by Erika Lesser, the Executive director of Slow Food USA. This very "slow" dinner will be prepared by Chef Kevin London, who will be part of the 2008 Terra Madre Chef delegation. Kevin will source foods locally, including vegetables from the Farmhouse garden. Reservations for Dinner and Accommodations (limited) should be made directly with Top of the World at 518.668.3000. Mention the "Slow Food Weekend" when making your arrangements. The dinner, which will be at 7:30PM, will cost $35 for Slow Food members and $40 for non-members not including alcoholic beverages or gratuity.

Saturday morning, a visit to Nettle Meadow to meet the farmers and their animals and taste their wonderful cheeses will take place. Reservations for this free but limited event can be made here. Later in the afternoon we will be heading over to Cambridge, New York for a Slow Food reception at Maple Ridge. Tickets and information for this event, which will be attended by Erika Lesser and Slow Food leaders from the northeast are available here.

On Sunday morning, we have organized a north country breakfast at Sheldon Farms before members head out on Washington County Farm Tours and demonstrations. Information and tickets for the breakfast are available here.

Tickets for the Al Fresco dinner are sold out, but I am aware of at least a couple still available at this moment. PM me if interested.

[docsconz]

I like the bar at Max's on Broadway for cocktails. While not quite Tailor, Pegu Club or The Violet Hour in terms of mixologic creativity or detail, they do a nice job with classic and newer cocktails alike. Time coordinating permitting, I would be happy to meet someone for drinks or dinner. PM if interested.

[markabauman]

I will be at Max London's early this Wednesday (5:30) for dinner.

[ELA]

I like the bar at Max's on Broadway for cocktails. While not quite Tailor, Pegu Club or The Violet Hour in terms of mixologic creativity or detail, they do a nice job with classic and newer cocktails alike. Time coordinating permitting, I would be happy to meet someone for drinks or dinner. PM if interested.

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EMS -- at least to the address I had last year.

Eric

[ELA]

I will be at Max London's early this Wednesday (5:30) for dinner.

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Enjoy! Wednesday of course is opening day. I will be partaking in my post-races activities and haven't yet decided where we'll be having dinner. We talked about ML's, but the conversation was running a bit. I'll keep you posted. If we do decide on ML's, anywhere for that matter, it won't be until much later -- so if you will still be in downtown let me know.

Opening day is always a mad house, LOL.

Eric

[markabauman]

Boston Globe article about Max London's

[markabauman]

Sad to see reported today the closing of the Springwater Bistro on Union Avenue near the track. Was once great, reports lately indicated a quick decline. Second restaurant closing in Saratoga in a couple of weeks (Lime Restaurant a few weeks ago). Nothing like the closings in NYC, but still unfortunate to see anyone anywhere go out of business, still knowing the odds.

Springwater Bistro closing

[docsconz]

Sad to see reported today the closing of the Springwater Bistro on Union Avenue near the track. Was once great, reports lately indicated a quick decline. Second restaurant closing in Saratoga in a couple of weeks (Lime Restaurant a few weeks ago). Nothing like the closings in NYC, but still unfortunate to see anyone anywhere go out of business, still knowing the odds.

Springwater Bistro closing

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Unfortunately, it probably won't be the last either. Interestingly, David Britton did not blame the economy for the closure. He anticipates taking a "sabbatical" then returning to the area with a new project.