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Rubs: The Topic


Chris Amirault
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Katie--

I let the meat sit till well enough moistened which most often means about 10-15 minutes, tops.

Generally, I am a 'last minute' guy--I decide not long before I cook what I'm cooking--so, usually, I salt the meat then go out to start coals. While the coals are igniting I make the rub. By the time the rub is made the meat is moist and I apply it, then I dump the coals and get the grill or smoker ready, cart out the meat, and cook.

As to your other questions, I think the ratios used in the first recipe work very well for slower cooked items like roasts, or for cuts that will be smoked and cooked fairly slowly, and the variation has better ratios for grilled foods. Note, though, that the grilled items I used the rub on (bison rib-eyes and tri-tip) I mostly cooked indirect with minimal direct time. For some things cooked mostly direct I would have cut back the sugar dramatically.

Were I to pick one set of ratios over the other--if I had to pick one over the other--I would pick the second (the ratios in the variation) as I think it is more widely able to be tweaked in the way you seek and is more 'available' to more cooking options.

Edited by klkruger (log)

Kevin

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For our French 4th of July I ended up using the rub from Mark Bittman's recipe for Spiced Winter Ribs, which started in the oven and finished on the grill. Pictures and details are here.

This is a great recipe when you have a ton of ribs to make and not enough grill space to really cook them there.

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Can't resist adding my friend Leo's rub recipe. It works well.

Leo’s Dry BBQ Rub

5 T Paprika

4 T Salt

4 T Garlic Powder

2 T Ground Black Pepper

2 T Onion Powder

2 T Cayenne Pepper

2 T Dried Leaf Oregano, Ground

2 T Dried Thyme

Combine all ingredients and place in a shaker container that can be sealed.

Shake and rub on to any cut of pork. Place meat in covered pan and roast for one hour at 300° prior to cooking on the BBQ.

Brown the meat and baste both side with your favorite BBQ sauce.

I like simple & this is that & it works.

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  • 6 months later...

This works on pork and chicken, but its highest and best use is as follows:

1. Brine chicken wings (1/2 C Diamond Crystal Kosher salt to one quart water) for two-three hours.

2. Remove wings from brine, pat dry, and allow to air-dry on racks for two hours.

3. Cold-smoke the wings over fruitwood for three hours. Remove from smoker and sprinkle generously with rub.

4. Roast wings at 250F for 45 minutes.

5. Increase oven temperature to 375 F. Once you reach temperature, roast for 15 more minutes, or until skin is brown and brittle.

have a question about this method, a variation, will it work?

(i dont have access to smoke these)

alton Brown recommends par-steaming wings before air drying, then roasting, then typical "buffalo" sauce, my wife likes this because the skin comes out nice and crisped...

if i

1)brine and or marinade (i was thinking jerk style)

THEN

2) par-steam....

then

3) air dry in the 'fridge

4) roast

5) glaze/coat when done with an appropriate sauce (i want a sweet/hot/sticky wing)

will this work? i.e. flavorful meat, with nice crisped skin, with a coating of sauce

I am concerned that par-steaming after the brine/marinade may be a problem by diluting the spice/flavor, but i am not sure.

thanks for any input

shanty

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This works on pork and chicken, but its highest and best use is as follows:

1. Brine chicken wings (1/2 C Diamond Crystal Kosher salt to one quart water) for two-three hours.

2. Remove wings from brine, pat dry, and allow to air-dry on racks for two hours.

3. Cold-smoke the wings over fruitwood for three hours. Remove from smoker and sprinkle generously with rub.

4. Roast wings at 250F for 45 minutes.

5. Increase oven temperature to 375 F. Once you reach temperature, roast for 15 more minutes, or until skin is brown and brittle.

have a question about this method, a variation, will it work?

(i dont have access to smoke these)

alton Brown recommends par-steaming wings before air drying, then roasting, then typical "buffalo" sauce, my wife likes this because the skin comes out nice and crisped...

if i

1)brine and or marinade (i was thinking jerk style)

THEN

2) par-steam....

then

3) air dry in the 'fridge

4) roast

5) glaze/coat when done with an appropriate sauce (i want a sweet/hot/sticky wing)

will this work? i.e. flavorful meat, with nice crisped skin, with a coating of sauce

I am concerned that par-steaming after the brine/marinade may be a problem by diluting the spice/flavor, but i am not sure.

thanks for any input

shanty

A couple of things that you may be fighting mostly due to penetration. When you’re dealing with wings your dealing with skin. It’s a protective covering. Not that a marinade has that much penetration to begin with (1/8” to 3/16” at the most) on porous surface like a skinless breast, I’m thinking that you’d be rinsing it off on the par steam. Check the run off (color) after you’ve steamed them and you’ll see what’s left. I’m also thinking that steaming will break the marinade’s emulsion.

Having never brined wings with food coloring or weighing them afterwards for a percentage of “water” retention I really can’t predict what you’d get flavor wise.

You’re better off with a glaze after the fact.

Jim

Jim Tarantino

Marinades, Rubs, Brines, Cures, & Glazes

Ten Speed Press

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This works on pork and chicken, but its highest and best use is as follows:

1. Brine chicken wings (1/2 C Diamond Crystal Kosher salt to one quart water) for two-three hours.

2. Remove wings from brine, pat dry, and allow to air-dry on racks for two hours.

3. Cold-smoke the wings over fruitwood for three hours. Remove from smoker and sprinkle generously with rub.

4. Roast wings at 250F for 45 minutes.

5. Increase oven temperature to 375 F. Once you reach temperature, roast for 15 more minutes, or until skin is brown and brittle.

have a question about this method, a variation, will it work?

(i dont have access to smoke these)

alton Brown recommends par-steaming wings before air drying, then roasting, then typical "buffalo" sauce, my wife likes this because the skin comes out nice and crisped...

if i

1)brine and or marinade (i was thinking jerk style)

THEN

2) par-steam....

then

3) air dry in the 'fridge

4) roast

5) glaze/coat when done with an appropriate sauce (i want a sweet/hot/sticky wing)

will this work? i.e. flavorful meat, with nice crisped skin, with a coating of sauce

I am concerned that par-steaming after the brine/marinade may be a problem by diluting the spice/flavor, but i am not sure.

thanks for any input

shanty

A couple of things that you may be fighting mostly due to penetration. When you’re dealing with wings your dealing with skin. It’s a protective covering. Not that a marinade has that much penetration to begin with (1/8” to 3/16” at the most) on porous surface like a skinless breast, I’m thinking that you’d be rinsing it off on the par steam. Check the run off (color) after you’ve steamed them and you’ll see what’s left. I’m also thinking that steaming will break the marinade’s emulsion.

Having never brined wings with food coloring or weighing them afterwards for a percentage of “water” retention I really can’t predict what you’d get flavor wise.

You’re better off with a glaze after the fact.

Jim

Jim,

thanks, thats just what I was thinking may be the issue...

(not sure a brine is neccesary either as the fat in the wings keeps them moist, was just hoping it would bring a flavor infusion)

so, any suggestions for a Jerk glaze, that will provide a good coating to my wings?

Or simply, how can i easly modify a rub and turn it into a glaze/sauce to toss the wings in...i am inexperienced in this realm (amongst many others)

thanks again

shanty

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Shanty,

Any glaze would work during last five to ten minutes of roasting. I'd look to build up some nice crackling on the wings first. As far as as adding a rub - go for it, use it as a spice mix if you're adding it to a glaze. I've make a quicky glaze with a 1/2 cup maple syrup, 1/4 cup pomegrante molasses, and 1/3 cup olive oil. Flip it into a blender. It lends itself to add-ons like citrus zest, rubs, curries, hot sauces, etc...

Even if you're using a fruit based glaze like raspberry or mango, you can have some fun by spiking it with rubs.

Jim

Jim Tarantino

Marinades, Rubs, Brines, Cures, & Glazes

Ten Speed Press

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  • 5 months later...

I keep tinkering with this rub from the classic Behold My Butt! topic, and feel like it's solid enough to publish here. Basically, it's more tart than its predecessor: it includes a hefty dose of asafoetida and I've switched the zataar to sumac straight up. I think it's a great foil for pork in particular (I'm making St Louis ribs this weekend) but it works with chicken as well. Smoke improves it -- as it improves most everything.

Mix:

40 g salt

40 g turbinado sugar

10 g powdered mustard (Coleman's)

8 g ancho chile*

8 g New Mexico chile*

10 g sumac

5 g asafoetida

Grind:

10 g black pepper

5 g white pepper

5 g cinnamon stick

4 g allspice

4 g nutmeg

2 g anise seed

2 g cloves

Combine.

Chris Amirault

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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I have been using a variation of a Bobby Flay chile/coffee rub:

2 tbs ground coffee (very fine)

2 tbs ancho chile powder

1/2 tsp chile de arbol powder (or more if you like it hotter)

1 tsp sea salt

1 tsp ground black pepper

1 tbs dark brown sugar

I use it on London Broil and chicken. I didn't like it on ribs.

For ribs (and chops) I my own recipe:

Dry rub:

2 tbs five spice powder

1/2 tsp star anise powder

1/2 tsp ground black pepper

1/2 tsp sea or kosher salt

And baste with this sauce:

4 tbs hoisin sauce

1/2 tbs sesame oil

1/2 tbs low sodium soy sauce

And when I'm feeling lazy I actually quite like McCormick's Montreal Steak Rub (for steaks and London Broil).

Mark

My eG Food Blog

www.markiscooking.com

My T shirt site: Guy Bling

My NEW Ribs site: BlasphemyRibs.com

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Chris,

Thanks for your Inner Beauty hot sauce knock-off recipe.

The recipe has:

15 habanero chilies

Chris, there are some things I know how to do in life, but as anyone who looked at my posts on eG would quickly conclude, cooking is NOT one of them. Yup, I know that. That's why come to eG, to LEARN. I started with eG early on, and am STILL coming and STILL trying to learn to cook. So far haven't learned much. I can still boil hot dogs and slather them with yellow mustard and sweet pickle relish.

So, I looked at your recipe with interest. Maybe I'll learn to make a good rub instead of just using what is left in a likely too old bottle of Emeril's Essence.

Yup, never made a rub.

So, the first line in your recipe is:

15 habanero chilies

Tilt. Halt. Full stop.

I never saw a habanero chili. I wouldn't know a habanero chili from something the neighbor's dog left in my yard. In particular, I wouldn't know a tiny, small, medium, large, or jumbo habanero chili. I don't know dip squat about habanero chilies. I have a lot to learn. Did I mention that I'm here to learn?

In cooking, I have learned one lesson very well: Without really, REALLY VERY highly detailed recipes from just fantastically excellent sources written with brilliant clarity and just exhaustive completeness, I know what will happen 99% of the time: I will devote a lot of time, effort, ingredients, and money and flush the results. Been there; done that; got the T-shirt; wore it out; NOT going back.

So, for your rub recipe, for me there's no hope.

Now I concede: When YOU make YOUR recipe, YOU do count the habanero chilies. I do believe that. But I also believe you do more: You know what a habanero chili looks like and how to compensate if the last batch you bought had chilies too large, too small, too dry, too mild (if that is possible), etc. For me, since I never saw a habanero chili, I just CANNOT do that. Did I mention, I never saw a habanero chili and wouldn't know one from ....

Is there a solution to this conundrum, this dilemma, this societal mud hole? Hmm .... Well, we could use weights or volumes. Would that make the specification perfect? Nope. But it will nearly always make the specification more accurate.

Chris, just counting chilies, with the rest you know that I don't, tells YOU what to do but does not communicate to me what to do.

Similarly for your 25 cloves of garlic. In all my cooking, in ALL my own notes, in everything I've posted to eG, just ALWAYS I specify garlic by volume after mincing.

Do such measurements make me a good cook? Nope. But the measurements do give me a basis for an iteration from the last trial that I didn't have to flush to maybe a better trial.

Improvise? I've tried that. I can make scallops pass the KFC FLG test, but ONLY by following a recipe I have and developed some decades ago. When I've tried to do something simpler, with butter, garlic, white wine, lemon juice, and whipping cream, the scallops were editable but no more. Lesson: I CANNOT just dump, hope, and get good results.

Q. But, but, but, good cooks just do NOT measure.

A. I just do NOT believe this. Maybe they measure by eye or by feel, since they cooked the dish 100 times a day each day for the past four years, but they DO measure. If they are going to communicate to others, or to themselves for three years later, then they will also have to take the extra step to measure with weights and/or volumes. Sorry 'bout that. Escoffier included measurements. 'The American Woman's Cookbook' from the 1930s my mother got from somewhere was just excellent on measurements. We're in the 21st century where we can measure the time to the big bang at 13.7 billion years ago. Maybe we can also measure the volume of minced garlic or the weight or volume of chilies, maybe minced chilies.

Chris, I just can't use a recipe that has "medium potatoes", a "medium onion", "25 cloves of garlic", or "15 habanero chilies". I've flushed FAR too much, and I'm NOT doing that anymore.

Edited by project (log)

What would be the right food and wine to go with

R. Strauss's 'Ein Heldenleben'?

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Here's one that's excellent on chicken breast fillets or pork chops; I typically let it sit maybe 15-20 minutes, then either sear in a hot skillet, or grill or broil. Can double or treble the recipe with no ill effects that I've found. I keep saying I'm going to try it on fish and see what it does.

2 tbsp. Kosher salt

2 tbsp. ground black pepper

2 tbsp. ground cumin

2 tbsp. chili powder

2 tbsp. ground coriander

1 tbsp. ground cardamom

1 tbsp. ground ginger

The original recipe called for minced fresh ginger, but I found the ground works better for purposes of blending and adhering.

Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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  • 9 months later...

I keep tinkering with this rub from the classic Behold My Butt! topic, and feel like it's solid enough to publish here. Basically, it's more tart than its predecessor: it includes a hefty dose of asafoetida and I've switched the zataar to sumac straight up. I think it's a great foil for pork in particular (I'm making St Louis ribs this weekend) but it works with chicken as well. Smoke improves it -- as it improves most everything.

Mix:

40 g salt

40 g turbinado sugar

10 g powdered mustard (Coleman's)

8 g ancho chile*

8 g New Mexico chile*

10 g sumac

5 g asafoetida

...

Chris, what do the asterisks denote?

 

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One of my faves is Cavenders all purpose greek seasoning, in the bright yellow tube. It's got msg in it, maybe that's why i like it so much! Chops, burgers, steaks - goes great on just about anything.

PastaMeshugana

"The roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowd."

"What's hunger got to do with anything?" - My Father

My eG Food Blog (2011)

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I use the same rub on pork and beef almost all the time.

1 Tbs Ancho Chile Powder

1 Tbs Hungarian Paprika

1 ts Smoked Paprika

2 ts Garlic Powder

2 ts Onion Powder

1 ts Finely Ground Coffee

1 ts Cayenne (optional)

3 Tbs Dark Brown Sugar

I've just estimated the brown sugar because I usually mix the other stuff together and rub the meat and then sprinkle the meat LIBERALLY with brown sugar. I've found that brown sugar tends to make everything clump up if I mix it all together.

I add the cayenne when I don't have any "sissy mouths" or small children in the group. If it's my chile head friends, I triple it.

Edited by BadRabbit (log)
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I keep tinkering with this rub from the classic Behold My Butt! topic, and feel like it's solid enough to publish here. Basically, it's more tart than its predecessor: it includes a hefty dose of asafoetida and I've switched the zataar to sumac straight up. I think it's a great foil for pork in particular (I'm making St Louis ribs this weekend) but it works with chicken as well. Smoke improves it -- as it improves most everything.

Mix:

40 g salt

40 g turbinado sugar

10 g powdered mustard (Coleman's)

8 g ancho chile*

8 g New Mexico chile*

10 g sumac

5 g asafoetida

...

Chris, what do the asterisks denote?

Sorry -- I think that it's supposed to refer to a missing endnote. I've been using a store-ground chile powder I got at a tiny shop in Douglas AZ (the closest nixtamal grinder to my in-laws place in Bisbee) instead of combining those two chiles in particular lately, and it's turned out great. But I can't really use it as a stated ingredient for those outside the greater Bisbee/Douglas area. :wink:

Chris Amirault

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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At the risk of being drummed out of EG ,,,For pork baby backribs in the Komado, Night before cooking, a rub of "Johnnys Seasoning salt" and Spice Islands "Beau Monde" easy, but very good....

Bud

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