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McDuff

raw apples on a fruit tart?

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I saw a picture of a fruit tart that people were positively being obnoxious about...So beautiful...can we all make them like this.... It had a fan of raw apples and a couple of slices of orange or tangelo on it. With the pith. Peeled, but with the pith. I had to bite my tongue. Kind of amateurish, in my exalted opinion.

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Pierre Herme uses a fan of (glazed) raw apples for his Melody cake. What exactly is it about the raw apples that bothers you? Is it specifically the pairing with a fruit tart?


Edited by sanrensho (log)

Baker of "impaired" cakes...

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I think of soft berries, ripe peaches, mango, that kind of thing on a fruit tart. I just don't think raw apples belong there. I've been looking through some books and can't find one reference or picture of a fruit tart with raw apples. Some suggest poaching them. And isn't the Melody the one with the 20 hour apples and cinnamon caramel mousse? I've made those 20 hour apples and when they come out right, and you basically have to ignore his amounts of sugar and adjust it to the apples in front of you, it's delicious. Makes sense to have those apples on that cake. I'll tell you what level of insight we're dealing with....I got a baked French apple tart with pastry cream filling added to our product line, and it was spotted in the pastry case at another location made with raw apples. Again, amateurish.


Edited by McDuff (log)

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I have absolutely no problem with the concept of raw apples in a fruit tart...the crunch of them against pastry cream (or even better, with caramel pastry cream!) sounds really good to me, inventive even, not amateurish.

However, I would probably slice apples skins on, and remove the pit, not the other way around. Although I have seen beautiful tarts with thin apples sliced horizontally with the pits. Orange sliced horizontally with their skins can make nice garnishes, but not as the main part of the dessert.

I think why it may seem weird to put apples on a fruit tart is you usually see fruit tarts in the spring, where apples, although readily available year round, are usually reserved for the fall.


Edited by sugarseattle (log)

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I saw a webdemo a while back (can't remmeber who, was in the early days of the web, '94 or so) where the chef did apple fans. He did a layer of frangipane then pastry cream, So the guy wasn't a novice or anything. Strawberries and kiwis were placed vertical, with apple fans and some other fruit, then blueberries dipped in powdered sugar right before service. Looked pretty neat to me.

sanrensho refers to the decoration of the melody - PH puts a fan of apples on the top along with cinnamon sticks.

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I think it's just a matter of personal preferance and not skills or anything like that.

Raw apples would lend a clean and chic look to the tart, while cooked/caramelized apples would give it a more rustic look. Also, cooked apples tend to look a little wonky sometimes.

The apple is a wonderful fruit, raw or cooked. :o)

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Raw apples, yes......citrus with pith, no......

I think that instead of a fan, I would brunoise the apples though and hide them under other fruit for a nice suprise crunchy apple texture and flavor, but thats just my opinion.

The most important part of a fruit tart is the pastry cream and crust, if those are great you can pretty much put any fruit on top.

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I don't use raw apples on my fruit tarts because of the fact that they brown when exposed to air.

Even if I brush them with lemon juice they brown eventually. My fruit tarts need to last at least a day or two because they sit in a case waiting to be sold.

There is also the issue of slice-ability. It's easier to get a nice clean, neat slice with soft fruit on top, as opposed to trying to cut nicely through crunchy fruit. :wink:

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I think uncooked fruits on pastry while they look so pretty ..just do not taste as good nor do I find the texture appealing...I do not care for the contrast texture of raw fruits with rich cooked pastries and cakes .I want my raspberries, peaches, apples, blueberries, whatever, cooked on or in a pastry.... they taste so much better ...(I adore fresh raw fruits in general) ..I know that I am not the expert of baked goods this is just my opinion for whatever it is worth .. ..but while I will stand there and appreciate the beauty of the raw fruit with the glaze or whatever on the pastry ..I will always go for the pastry with the cooked fruit filling or topping..warm goes with warm where sweets are concerned to me ...

except with strawberry shortcakes those should be shortcake warm ..fruits raw macerated in sugar and room temp ....minted whipped or ice cream ice cold ..(I do have exceptions to every made up rule in my life)

(it is just an inch from strawberry season! :smile: )


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We used raw apples in a fan when I worked at Jean Philippe Patisserie at Bellagio, also all other fruit was raw too. Key Lime juice was used on the apples to keep them from browning, then the tart was glazed.

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I don't use raw apples on my fruit tarts because of the fact that they brown when exposed to air.

Even if I brush them with lemon juice they brown eventually. My fruit tarts need to last at least a day or two because they sit in a case waiting to be sold.

I'm wondering how well that Sosa antioxidizing gel works. I may have to order some just to check it out. Worst case, it won't work any better than lemon juice but at $12 lb. and no juicing required that won't be a huge disappointment. If it works significantly better then it'll be a nice thing to have around.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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I'd also like to add that I don't use apples or even pears on fruit tarts because of lack of color.

I make apple and pear tarts, but the apples and pears, of course are cooked into the tart....usually with frangipane.

I've wondered about that anti-oxidizing stuff, but I'm not curious enough to spend the money.

Bottom line is, whatever floats your boat I guess. Some people like the apple concept....some people don't.......there's always somebody to fill the niche.....and plenty of people willing to eat it.....

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I've wondered about that anti-oxidizing stuff, but I'm not curious enough to spend the money.

I have a couple orders I'm getting together anyway so I'll spend the $12 for the team and report back with the results. Sosa has a few interesting things I'm trying strictly out of curiosity so one more won't hurt. :biggrin:


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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I adore raw fruit on a tart, but not kiwi... I just don't don't care for the flavor of kiwi alongside pastry- feh.

I really like raw apples, they are so fragrant and CRUNCHY! It's a great experience.

I think it's kind of denigrating in an amateurish way to use the word amateurish when we're describing other cooks' work, myself. :raz:


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I adore raw fruit on a tart, but not kiwi... I just don't don't care for the flavor of kiwi alongside pastry- feh.

I really like raw apples, they are so fragrant and CRUNCHY! It's a great experience.

I think it's kind of denigrating in an amateurish way to use the word amateurish when we're describing other cooks' work, myself. :raz:

go ahead then...find and quote me a recipe in any pastry book other than The Golden Sunset Book of Pastries that describes using raw apples in a fruit tart. I've got a summa cum laude degree in pastry arts and 33 years of culinary experience. I meant amateurish.

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go ahead then...find and quote me a recipe in any pastry book other than The Golden Sunset Book of Pastries that describes using raw apples in a fruit tart.

I'm not arguing against your right to your opinion or questioning your experience but, just for the sake of discussion, cooked apple tarts weren't in the books either until someone tried it and put it there. Where would food be if nobody ever thought outside the book? Books are guidelines, not rules. I very rarely use books. I don't have your credentials or experience but I don't get many complaints either.

I've got a summa cum laude degree in pastry arts and 33 years of culinary experience. I meant amateurish.

Your credentials make it inappropriate to consider you amateurish. However, the fact that there is your way and anything else is wrong does make it difficult not to picture you as "arrogant and closed-minded" even if that's not actually the case. How do you create if anything you don't already know can't possibly be acceptable?


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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never tried the sosa gel, but ascorbic acid works way better than citric acid for preventing oxidation.....we used to make a granny smith apple juice, with citric acid it'd be brown in an hour, ascorbic would keep it bright green till it was used up.

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go ahead then...find and quote me a recipe in any pastry book other than The Golden Sunset Book of Pastries that describes using raw apples in a fruit tart.

I'm not arguing against your right to your opinion or questioning your experience but, just for the sake of discussion, cooked apple tarts weren't in the books either until someone tried it and put it there. Where would food be if nobody ever thought outside the book? Books are guidelines, not rules. I very rarely use books. I don't have your credentials or experience but I don't get many complaints either.

I've got a summa cum laude degree in pastry arts and 33 years of culinary experience. I meant amateurish.

Your credentials make it inappropriate to consider you amateurish. However, the fact that there is your way and anything else is wrong does make it difficult not to picture you as "arrogant and closed-minded" even if that's not actually the case. How do you create if anything you don't already know can't possibly be acceptable?

Believe me, I am not putting down anybody at any level who cooks and bakes. There are lots and lots of people who don't do it for money, but for the love of it, and there is every possibility they have better skills than I do. My point is that every dish has a tradition, that countless people have made it before us, and more than likely every variation has been tried, adopted, discarded and so on. You really won't find examples of raw apples on fruit tarts in any book or source that understands and respects the essence of a fresh fruit tart, or an apple. The person who made the fruit tarts in the photos I referenced had very good skills...the item was beautiful. I don't want to provoke another personal attack, but the photo also showed, to me, an unknowing of the manner in which a fruit tart is traditionally made. I repeat, look through the literature, apples are most often baked in a fruit tart. Doesn't make me closed-minded and arrogant...just perhaps a little more informed.

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No personal attack intended. Apologies if it seemed that way. I wasn't saying you are closed-minded and arrogant, I don't know you, just that that was the image that came to mind based on the way you were arguing your point. My point was that you started the post by saying "is this wrong or is it just me" then followed that up by calling the person who did it amateurish and telling everybody who suggested that it's just your viewpoint that they were wrong too. That cast an arrogant light on you in my opinion, even if that's not the case. I don't doubt that you're a nice person and very good at what you do and I'd probably get along great with you in person and learn a lot from you but when you ask a large group of people a question you're likely to get answers that don't all agree with your point of view. I was just discussing, not attacking.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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I guess it depends on weather your talking about a Fresh Fruit Tart or just a fruit tart. I usually make seasonal Fresh Fruit tarts being in CA we get great fruit here, and yes in the Fall i would use apple, or even pear. I find it unfortunate when something is labeled as a fresh fruit tart and uses canned fruit, nothing wrong with canned fruit but do not call it a fresh fruit tart.

BTW I also have a Summa Cum Laude degree in Baking and Pastry. With 20 years experience, and I also have a art background which i guess makes it easier for me to see that in Season, the texture, flavor, and color ( yes white is a color) of an Apple can be a good thing. But like all things that is just my opinion, and everyone is free to enjoy their fruit tart as they like. :biggrin:


Eric

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