Edible Landscaping

[dockhl]

I have always been a fan of the concept of edible landscaping, and have lugged around a (long out of print) copy of Rosalind Creasy's Cooking from the Garden. What a concept it was in the '80's. Seems like people were really just beginning to think of sustainable agriculture and eating local (you should see the picture of Alice Waters......so young! as were we all..... ).

Anyway, I've never been in the right place to make it work but have recently bought a house with a rectangular side yard that I've ripped the grass out of. A blank slate. West facing, and somewhat shaded by Valley Oaks. I'll put in raised beds since our soil is crappy. Sunset Climate Zone 14 (I think) with hot dry summers, and cold winters (20's).

I have some thoughts, and a favorite plant list but would love to talk to someone who has actually done this. I'm thinking expanded kitchen garden..........

[highchef]

This reminds me of a resturant we stopped in, several years ago in wine country. EVERYthing, from the borders (rosemary), mass plantings (artichokes) and ornamentals (lemon grass) was for use in that resturant and it was awsome. I know that in the 'back' somewhere they hid the tomatoe and squash plants, but the landscaping effect was perfect and practical as well as beautiful. I thought they were pretty ballsey because the rosemary flowers really attracted the bees, but the waitress said they have some arrangement w/a bee keep and they utilized that honey in many dishes. If I were blessed enough to live in that area I'd definately put edibles out there as my landscaping. Instead of wisteria on a trellis, I'd do grapes. Olive and almond trees for backdrop. I envy you this opportunity.

[Trishiad]

I don't love the chore of gardening. I like to feel like I'm getting something more than just pretty for all that hard work and dirty clothing. I have begun to sneak things like herbs and artichokes into even my flower borders. We have raised beds for veggies, nearly 20 fruit trees, and a kitchen garden full of herbs and still, I'd rather have 5 parsley plants than a gerbera daisy.

In our raised beds, we are careful about the movement of the sun and the height of the full grown plant which allows us to get a lot of plants into one bed. We also go vertical with things on vines like cukes and grow things around their lower edges.

It's great to wander into the garden for dinner. Even better to watch our young son and his friends forage for afterschool snacks. Sungolds being a fave.

[dockhl]

This reminds me of a resturant we stopped in, several years ago in wine country. EVERYthing, from the borders (rosemary), mass plantings (artichokes) and ornamentals (lemon grass) was for use in that resturant and it was awsome. I know that in the 'back' somewhere they hid the tomatoe and squash plants, but the landscaping effect was perfect and practical as well as beautiful. I thought they were pretty ballsey because the rosemary flowers really attracted the bees, but the waitress said they have some arrangement w/a bee keep and they utilized that honey in many dishes. If I were blessed enough to live in that area I'd definately put edibles out there as my landscaping. Instead of wisteria on a trellis, I'd do grapes. Olive and almond trees for backdrop. I envy you this opportunity.

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highchef~

which wine country? which restaurant? Sounds like the kind of landscaping that I am looking for (in OUR wine country!) I should post my plant list...............very Meditterranean.

[dockhl]

I don't love the chore of gardening.  I like to feel like I'm getting something more than just pretty for all that hard work and dirty clothing.  I have begun to sneak things like herbs and artichokes into even my flower borders. We have raised beds for veggies, nearly 20 fruit trees, and a kitchen garden full of herbs and still, I'd rather have 5 parsley plants than a gerbera daisy.

In our raised beds, we are careful about the movement of the sun and the height of the full grown plant which allows us to get a lot of plants into one bed.  We also go vertical with things on vines like cukes and grow things around their lower edges.

It's great to wander into the garden for dinner.  Even better to watch our young son and his friends forage for afterschool snacks.  Sungolds being a fave.

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Trishiad~

I love the results of gardening but not the process so I'm with you ! I love to cook and entertain and hate buying grocery store herbs, etc. I've always grown my own herbs and tomatoes but not gotten into much more. (Grew some lemon cukes to show my then-little daughter that food comes from plants...)

Can you post pics?

Kathy

[Trishiad]

Sorry, I am without camera for a little while. Nothing's very pretty right now anyway. I think you should go wander the nursery and find what looks yummy.

[melkor]

I've got a 25' x 30' back yard in a city. We grow a lot of stuff in very little space. There are two large fruit trees (apple and plum), a couple of small trees (fig, orange, pomegranate), a small greenhouse, several small raised garden beds, some blackberry vines, and an herb garden. I'm building a chicken coop and getting a couple of chickens to turn my table scraps into eggs.

It's not a lot of work once you get everything in place and you can grow things you otherwise can't easily find. I harvested some fresh green peppercorn spikes from the peppercorn vine in the greenhouse and made steak au poivre vert on Saturday. It's really nice to be able to grow things you otherwise can't buy. There's a small kaffir lime tree in the greenhouse, some pitaya (dragonfruit) cacti, passion fruit, papaya, a couple of mangosteen trees that will take forever to get big enough to produce fruit, a vanilla orchid, and some other random stuff.

[Toliver]

I've never done this and I, too, envy you and your opportunity.

You should make a list of dishes you like to make or would like to make and break them down into a list of herbs, vegetables and fruits and go from there. There's no sense in growing tarragon, for example, if you're not going to use it very much.

I do know that some herbs shouldn't be planted in a bed garden since they like to voraciously expand their territory (I think mint is one of those). These should be planted in containers instead.

Keep us updated on your progress!

[kiliki]

I'm a big fan of raised beds-like Melkor, I manage to cram a lot into my raised bed in my smallish city lot. I grow everything anyone would grow in a regular garden in my beds, though I provide trellises for some things, so they grow up rather than sprawl and take up room (like cucumbers). I'm using this spiral veggie cage for the first time this year:

Veggie cage

So, grow whatever you like to eat! I generally only DON'T grow things that are cheap and abundant at farmer's markets, like garlic or zucchini.

Exactly how shaded will these beds be, though? Most veggies and herbs need full sun, though I've never gardened in as hot a climate as you are in, and so perhaps that makes a difference (maybe another Californian can comment on this).

[andiesenji]

Living as I do in the southern Calif. high desert (above 2000 ft altitude), there are actually four seasons and one has to carefully select what to plant and when to plant it. I envy people who live in the coastal areas and have friends who live in the "banana belt" who have greater latitude in what they grow. (I especially envy my best friends who have lovely avocado trees in their front yard, both decorative and producing fruit.)

This area is ideal for growing herbs and vegetable plants that evolved around the Mediterranean sea as the soil and the climate is nearly identical. We have a very long growing season for an area that does get well below freezing during the short winter.

I no longer maintain the large back garden in which I used to grow many vegetables requiring large spaces but still have a 40' x 90' "side" garden in which I have combined herbs and vegetables and fruits that require less space. Some are in ground, many are in pots and planters both to save water and to make gardening easier for me. Some are started in the greenhouse and moved outside in their pots as soon as all danger of frost has ended.

Also, plants that in other areas require full sun do just fine in partial shade here. I use "screens" made of shade cloth to protect tender plants from the fierce winds during very hot weather. Again, this cuts down on the need for water and protects the plants and fruits.

Rather than have rigid lines, the plants are situated along winding paths planted with a hybrid Bermuda grass that needs little water and rarely needs trimming.

These photos were taken in May '07.

Rosemary in the foreground, bay laurel to the left under an apricot tree.

Sorrel in ground at left - it tends to spread if the seed heads are not cut regularly.

Scented pelargonium, herbs, baby peppers, chives and shallots.

One of the strawberry pots and a strong stand of fennel that has been there for 14 years.

Tomato plants in pots placed in a bed of costmary.

A pot of basil and sage.

[dockhl]

I've got a 25' x 30' back yard in a city.  We grow a lot of stuff in very little space. There are two large fruit trees (apple and plum), a couple of small trees (fig, orange, pomegranate), a small greenhouse, several small raised garden beds, some blackberry vines, and an herb garden.  I'm building a chicken coop and getting a couple of chickens to turn my table scraps into eggs. 

It's not a lot of work once you get everything in place and you can grow things you otherwise can't easily find.  I harvested some fresh green peppercorn spikes from the peppercorn vine in the greenhouse and made steak au poivre vert on Saturday.  It's really nice to be able to grow things you otherwise can't buy.  There's a small kaffir lime tree in the greenhouse, some pitaya (dragonfruit) cacti, passion fruit, papaya, a couple of mangosteen trees that will take forever to get big enough to produce fruit, a vanilla orchid, and some other random stuff.

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Wow, That sounds like a lot! Pix? I love the concept of the greenhouse.

[dockhl]

I've never done this and I, too, envy you and your opportunity.

You should make a list of dishes you like to make or would like to make and break them down into a list of herbs, vegetables and fruits and go from there. There's no sense in growing tarragon, for example, if you're not going to use it very much.

I do know that some herbs shouldn't be planted in a bed garden since they like to voraciously expand their territory (I think mint is one of those). These should be planted in containers instead.

Keep us updated on your progress!

I am working with a landscape architect to specifically make sure I don't mess it up !

Exactly how shaded will these beds be, though? Most veggies and herbs need full sun, though I've never gardened in as hot a climate as you are in, and so perhaps that makes a difference (maybe another Californian can comment on this).

I've not lived here during most of the year so I'm not sure but the LA seems to have a handle on it ! I am a big fan of raised beds, too, so that is the plan.

I may grow my tomatoes in freestanding planters rather than the raised beds.

Also, plants that in other areas require full sun do just fine in partial shade here.

andi~

those pics are awesome. Thanks. Do the plants that you reference here do OK in the shade because it is so hot? We get 95'-100' pretty routinely during the summer, so maybe this shade won't be a bad thing.

Here is a plant list I gave to the LA of things I love. I know they might not all be practical or possible but just to give her an idea.........

FRUITS

meyer lemon

blood orange

strawberries

figs

pomegranates

kaffir lime

lemongrass

HERBS

rosemary

thyme

parsley

basil

dill

oregano

cilantro

mint (spearmint, lime mint)

sage

VEGETABLES

tomatoes

green beans

cucumbers

peppers

Scarlet Runner Beans

TREES

bay laurel

olive

white birch

[andiesenji]

I don't see anything wrong with any of the plants and trees you have chosen.

You should plant different varieties of beans with some distance between them if you plan to harvest any dry and save some for planting next year - cross-pollination can give you some surprises.

If you choose strawberry varieties that produce all year long, you can harvest them almost all year and when they produce rooted scions you can transplant them into new pots and keep expanding. The cultivars I have are: Sunset which are strong and produce large, very flavorful fruit. I also have some Sequoia and Chandler plants which bear heavily in May/June and some Quinault that had fruit well into November.

I have tried a few others, including some "wild" strawberries but had little luck with them.

You can grow a much larger variety in your area.

I would recommend you plant at least two lemon verbena shrubs. It should grow beautifully in your area and the lemon flavored leaves can be used in so many applications. They dry beautifully and retain their flavor for a very long time. It dies back with a hard frost and right now it still looks completely dead but soon the dry-looking branches will begin producing bright green leaves.

I have several varieties of rosemary, also several sages and lavenders, three or four thymes, scented pelargoniums, costmary, anise hyssop.

You should grow some lavender, it is beautiful and well suited for your area and has several great culinary uses.

Pineapple sage is spectacular and attracts butterflies and hummingbirds. It also grows taller than most sages so is a good background plant. I also love Cleveland sage which is a beautiful landscape plant and produces beautiful flower spikes that dry nicely if you like to make dried flower arrangements.

One of my friends who lives in the Santa Ynez valley has planted several varieties of fig trees and has them espaliered which allows her to have more trees in a smaller than normal area.

You can see some ideas here. and here.

Monica's are in the Belgian fence style.

Edited March 17, 2008 by andiesenji (log)

[dockhl]

andie~

thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. These are the sorts of things I need to know !

That Belgian style espalier if a knockout !

[andiesenji]

andie~

thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. These are the sorts of things I need to know !

That Belgian style espalier if a knockout !

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I just called Monica and she said she got the idea from a Mother Earth News article and it is available online.

I just posted the link in my last post.

Monica said she wanted to be able to pick fruit without climbing a ladder! She is my age (69) and not as spry as she used to be.

Edited March 17, 2008 by andiesenji (log)

[C. sapidus]

What about chile plants? The National Herb Garden (click) at the U.S. National Arboretum uses chile plants as an edible/ornamental element. The plants are quite beautiful, especially when laden with multi-colored fruits. Some even have bronzy-purply leaves, beautifully contrasting with bright red chiles.

It sounds like you will have a beautiful edible garden.

[andiesenji]

What about chile plants? The National Herb Garden (click) at the U.S. National Arboretum uses chile plants as an edible/ornamental element. The plants are quite beautiful, especially when laden with multi-colored fruits. Some even have bronzy-purply leaves, beautifully contrasting with bright red chiles.

It sounds like you will have a beautiful edible garden.

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I agree wholeheartedly! I love all types of pepper plants. Even the ornamental ones are edible and some are incredible in shape and color.

This one is lavender to purple when mature

Eggplants are also very colorful - from white to orange to green (when ripe) and of course the lavender/purple varieties.

Edited March 18, 2008 by andiesenji (log)

[dockhl]

What about chile plants? The National Herb Garden (click) at the U.S. National Arboretum uses chile plants as an edible/ornamental element. The plants are quite beautiful, especially when laden with multi-colored fruits. Some even have bronzy-purply leaves, beautifully contrasting with bright red chiles.

It sounds like you will have a beautiful edible garden.

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Yes! In fact, inspired by another thread, I am ordering the Trinidad Perfume and Tobago Somethingorother peppers from CHILEPLANTS.COM

You know, you can only order in lots of 12, and they have eggplants and tomatoes, too..............

[C. sapidus]

Yes! In fact, inspired by another thread, I am ordering the Trinidad Perfume and Tobago Somethingorother peppers from CHILEPLANTS.COM

You know, you can only order in lots of 12, and they have eggplants and tomatoes, too.............. 

←

We coordinate a group order from Chileplants.com every year. With friends, co-workers, and family members involved, the minimum order is not a problem. A friend from Trinidad usually orders Tobago Seasoning and Trinidad Perfume. I prefer chiles with a shorter time to maturity, but length of growing season shouldn't be a problem in your area.

Thanks for the reminder - I need to start putting our chile and tomato list together.

[melkor]

I've got a 25' x 30' back yard in a city.  We grow a lot of stuff in very little space. There are two large fruit trees (apple and plum), a couple of small trees (fig, orange, pomegranate), a small greenhouse, several small raised garden beds, some blackberry vines, and an herb garden.  I'm building a chicken coop and getting a couple of chickens to turn my table scraps into eggs. 

It's not a lot of work once you get everything in place and you can grow things you otherwise can't easily find.  I harvested some fresh green peppercorn spikes from the peppercorn vine in the greenhouse and made steak au poivre vert on Saturday.  It's really nice to be able to grow things you otherwise can't buy.  There's a small kaffir lime tree in the greenhouse, some pitaya (dragonfruit) cacti, passion fruit, papaya, a couple of mangosteen trees that will take forever to get big enough to produce fruit, a vanilla orchid, and some other random stuff.

←

Wow, That sounds like a lot! Pix? I love the concept of the greenhouse.

←

ImageGullet is too horrible to use, so no pics. The greenhouse is from Harbor Freight - they have them on sale from time to time, it's a good cheap solution as long as you don't live somewhere with a lot of wind.

[dockhl]

Yes! In fact, inspired by another thread, I am ordering the Trinidad Perfume and Tobago Somethingorother peppers from CHILEPLANTS.COM

You know, you can only order in lots of 12, and they have eggplants and tomatoes, too.............. 

←

We coordinate a group order from Chileplants.com every year. With friends, co-workers, and family members involved, the minimum order is not a problem. A friend from Trinidad usually orders Tobago Seasoning and Trinidad Perfume. I prefer chiles with a shorter time to maturity, but length of growing season shouldn't be a problem in your area.

Thanks for the reminder - I need to start putting our chile and tomato list together.

←

Bruce~

good idea. The description of the Carribean peppers sounded wonderful~you've had them?

[dockhl]

ImageGullet is too horrible to use, so no pics.  The greenhouse is from Harbor Freight - they have them on sale from time to time, it's a good cheap solution as long as you don't live somewhere with a lot of wind.

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You are so right. I LOVELOVELOVE Harbor Freight and haven't been around one in three years. I have a trip to San Diego coming up in April so, maybe.... *crossing fingers*

(There is so much shopping I want to do, and the point IS to attend the convention ) It does, sometimes, get windy here but it is not a major component of the weather.

[C. sapidus]

The description of the Carribean peppers sounded wonderful~you've had them?

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I am sure that we had them on vacation.

We grew seasoning peppers one year, but have never had much luck with long-season chiles in the habanero family. Many Caribbean dishes use seasoning peppers with lots of fresh herbs in marinades (e.g. “green seasoning”). These dishes often have a wonderfully complex "I'm not sure what's in it but I like it" flavor.

[Raoul Duke]

dockhl, I have a 40' X 40' walled garden space with 3 raised beds 4' X 12' , and 2 beds approx. 6' X 6'. This provides a large amount of veggies for us. For fruit we have 3 apple trees, 2 plum, 2 apricot, 2 peach, 1 necterine, 1 cherry and 2 pear. This amidst 1300 olive trees. pm me to come out for a look see on planning your space. I'm east of Paso.

Raoul

ps. I believe met once at a Chuck Ortman tasting downtown.

[Trishiad]

Yes, we have chix too. Such a happy addition to the garden as long as they aren't free ranging all day long. Last year we didn't get to eat a single tomato from our 8 plants! Chix are voracious eaters!

I have started to add super dwarf trees to my front yard also. They only get about 6 feet tall and produce just enough to eat out of hand and not have to spend time making jam. This allows me a variety without excess. We love them.