Top Chef Season 4

[pax]

And one more thing -- are the "winners" of the elimination challenges not receiving anything but bragging rights? Didn't the guest judges used to bring some sort of a trinket for the winners?

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The guest judges used to award a prize, I'm not sure if they donated it. Sometimes the disparity was quite a lot....someone won a trip to Italy, the next one a coupon for lunch at Mom's Diner, or some such.

[ulterior epicure]

I want to know, and thereby publicly admit that I watch this show on some consistent basis, whether or not Andrew (who I find frightening and disturbing) is a "Sous Chef at Le Cirque," as sometimes, but not always, credited on his byline flashes.

[kiliki]

That was stupid and insulting...as was what his name's comment about Mexican food cannot be fine dining!!

I totally agree-I bet Bayless about had a heart attack if he watched last night's show. Hey, all Mexican people are poor, right? There can't be any fine dining there! He probably thinks the same about Chinese food. (Who was it, Spike?)

I am not into this group and the shows have been pretty boring IMO. Maybe it's just because it's still new and I don't "know" everyone, but there was zero anticipation on my part about who got kicked off.

[Vinotas]

No great sadness to see Rick go, he really hadn't showed that much. And Ryan just has to go, every dish he's made has been a flop. Nikki could be a close 2nd, luckily she was on the winning team this episode.

I really think that Richard is the one to watch.

Oh, and when Andrew said it was "His house" I wanted Colicchio to look at him and say "No, Andrew, this is MY house. Now go and wait while we decide your fate."

BTW, I forgot, are GE MonoGram, Toyota and Glad sponsors?

Cheers!

[Siouxsie]

Hi all. New here. What I've noticed is that the various airings of the episodes seem to have some different editing. There's snippets you see in some airings of a particular episode that aren't in another airing of the same show, but they always fit into the hour time slot. Wonder what's up with that. Yeah, this outs me as someone who'll catch a rerun if I'm home and it's on!

I agree that it is early yet, far too early for any real interpersonal issues to arise. But also, as with Project Runway, I think the contestants are getting more media savvy and although there are still personalities who get longer running time before being offed, there just don't seem to be any real conflicts. Season 2 of Top Chef and Season 3 of Project Runway were great to watch because the conflicts seemed so real. Last season of both Top Chef and Project Runway were kinder, gentler, and tamer. The talent still came out, but much less drama.

Siouxsie

[tmgrobyn]

Oh ugh. Last nights episode was a mishmash of editing!

Watching Andrew fidget my therapist husband said "the guys on meth". Don't know if it's the case but man Andrew, chill! Then he has the nerve, guts, b*lls, to say "this is my house and I'm not leaving" What???!!?!

Moving on to Jennifer's "pasta salad doesn't win you Top Chef comment. Gah. Maybe not, but fried wontons rarely do either. However, Stephanie ran away with it again because of those wontons.

The rest is just a product placement nightmare. The glad wall, velveeta mountain and spicy italian dressing, oh my! Yes, shows do get ad dollars for product placement but this one takes the cake.

Richard was surprised at the suggestion of his product now being on the menu at Bayless' place it seems after reviewing last night's episode. I really think it caught him by surprise.

And, wow you could almost see how led the cast was by the neighbors pantries. I can hear Colocchio saying, "okay some mac and cheese, some pasta salad, a bbq dish, some hotdogs for good measure". We'll see how bad they do with this one. Because it was obvious they were looking for the chefs to step up and take ordinary foods and make something better from the example of the quick fire challenge. No one really did that. And then the cheftestants comment how it's just mom and pop america and they don't care what they eat. aaaack!

[monavano]

Regarding all the speculation that the food in the homes was staged, check out Lee Anne's blog: http://www.bravotv.com/Top_Chef/season/4/b...he_block&page=4

WYSIWYG

[cathrynapple]

I guess this is a stupid question, but I'm gathering that Lee Anne now works for Top Chef? That's kind of neat, I think. Probably a fun job.

[Doodad]

I guess this is a stupid question, but I'm gathering that Lee Anne now works for Top Chef? That's kind of neat, I think. Probably a fun job.

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Dale from last year does too. He went straight from last season to production on Chicago (from what I heard).

We watched the episode again last night. Lots of melodrama in such a bad episode. Agreed that Andrew could not pass a drug test. He was tweaking so bad it made me grind my teeth for him. I can't see him leaving without getting in Collichio's face with a string of f bombs.

And the quickfire food was even worse than I remembered. My gosh some of that looked terrible.

[nakji]

Is it just me, or is the product placement in tonight's episode particularily egregious? I mean, if some TV crew came into my kitchen and said "Hey, we want to film a segment in here, can we plant some KC Masterpiece in your pantry" I'd tell them where they can put their KC Masterpiece! tongue.gif It feels to me like that's a different level of product placement than just having those items conspicuously on camera in the Top Chef kitchen.

Not only was it egregious, it was sooo infuriating that I'm deliberately remembering the names of those sponsors so I can avoid their products in the future. The brand-whoring made me cranky.

I'd like to nominate another show tic for the drinking game: whenever the cheftestants are describing their dishes, almost everyone prefaces their ingredient run-downs with "a little" this, and "a little" that. Watch it back - it's ridiculous.

"Yes Chef. Well, we've got a little sundried maple serrano ham, mixed up with a little yogurt whisky reduction, and garnished with a little poppy pollen." Egads. Have they listened to themselves? What's wrong with some?

[grayelf]

I'd like to nominate another show tic for the drinking game: whenever the cheftestants are describing their dishes, almost everyone prefaces their ingredient run-downs with "a little" this, and "a little" that. Watch it back - it's ridiculous.

"Yes Chef. Well, we've got a little sundried maple serrano ham, mixed up with a little yogurt whisky reduction, and garnished with a little poppy pollen." Egads. Have they listened to themselves? What's wrong with some?

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Or how about no qualifier at all: "We have a sundried maple serrano ham with a yogurt whisky reduction and a poppy pollen garnish."

[tino27]

Is it just me, or is the product placement in tonight's episode particularily egregious? I mean, if some TV crew came into my kitchen and said "Hey, we want to film a segment in here, can we plant some KC Masterpiece in your pantry" I'd tell them where they can put their KC Masterpiece! tongue.gif It feels to me like that's a different level of product placement than just having those items conspicuously on camera in the Top Chef kitchen.

Not only was it egregious, it was sooo infuriating that I'm deliberately remembering the names of those sponsors so I can avoid their products in the future. The brand-whoring made me cranky.

I'd like to nominate another show tic for the drinking game: whenever the cheftestants are describing their dishes, almost everyone prefaces their ingredient run-downs with "a little" this, and "a little" that. Watch it back - it's ridiculous.

"Yes Chef. Well, we've got a little sundried maple serrano ham, mixed up with a little yogurt whisky reduction, and garnished with a little poppy pollen." Egads. Have they listened to themselves? What's wrong with some?

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Not to egregiously borrow from another source, but methinks someone's "little chef" is a bit cranky.

Edited March 28, 2008 by tino27 (log)

[markemorse]

I guess this is a stupid question, but I'm gathering that Lee Anne now works for Top Chef? That's kind of neat, I think. Probably a fun job.

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We watched the episode again last night. Lots of melodrama in such a bad episode. Agreed that Andrew could not pass a drug test. He was tweaking so bad it made me grind my teeth for him. I can't see him leaving without getting in Collichio's face with a string of f bombs.

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Just saw Andrew for the first time, and he is indeed painful to watch...my money's on amphetamine psychosis before the season's over...

[dougw]

I was really hoping for Tom or Ted to put Andrew in his place when he said "This is my house!"

Um, no. It ain't your house yet. If you win, call it your house, but not when you're pissed because you didn't win the challenge with your mini burgers and sorry-ass corndogs.

[David Ross]

I agree with you. Those were sorry-ass corn dogs for sure. I think Erik said "There isn't much you can do with hot dogs." Yes there is Erik, you wiener, you leave the hot dogs in the neighbor's fridge and don't turn them into soggy, little weinie's coated in pancake batter.

I had to watch Episode 3-"Block Party"-a third time this afternoon to see if repeated viewings would change my mind about this episode. It didn't. Personally, I think this was one of the weakest efforts from the Top Chefs that I've seen. The food was for the most part very average.

I guess it is safe to assume that the Top Chef contestants don't read our opinions on these pages. If they did, they might gain a better understanding of what they should be doing in the kitchen in order to be successful at the judges table.

We’ve already agreed that in previous episodes, the chefs committed the ultimate sin by not tasting their food before it went to the judges. Falling in line with that seasoning failure is another fundamental error in judgement that we see committed on a regular basis by the Top Chefs-willingly or unwillingly-to understand the specific challenge before them.

Since I’ve just opened the first bottle of wine, my version of the Top Chef Commentator’s drinking game, I’ll focus on the “Quickfire Challenge” tonight. (It could take more bottles of wine than I have in the house to get through the entire episode tonight).

Here are a few suggestions for the “Top Chefs:”

-Rather than creating a dish in your mind while you barrel like a bull through the kitchen, I’d suggest you just take a deep breath and put a few moments of thought into your dish. Andrew was quoted as saying he felt like he was “running around like a New York rat.” Yes Andrew, you were. (Andrew fidgeted like he was over-medicated on drugs that he purchased through the internet from a foreign pharmacy. How Andrew produced one of the top taco dishes is beyond me).

Don’t create a dish as you go because that can be a recipe for disaster on the other end. You’ll hear that call for “2 minutes left” and wish you had taken those 2 minutes up front to plan your dish appropriate to the challenge.

-You’ve got 30 minutes in the Quickfire Challenge, so make sure you keep the dish simple in terms of just a few, but exceptional, ingredients. Choose a cooking method that you can do in say 25 minutes, and then you’ll have 5 minutes for plating. If you create a complicated dish on the fly as you race through the pantry gathering a plethora of ingredients, you just may be surprised 30 minutes later when Padma barks “knives down, hands-up Chefs.”

-On this point of timing and following the specifics of the challenge, I’ve got a hint for the Top Chefs-follow the example set by the winners. Richard used just three main ingredients-Jicama (as the "tortilla" in the taco), Avocado and Papaya-in his thoughtful, perfectly executed “upscale” taco dish. And Richard gave me a “gotcha guys” moment when he graciously asked the judges if he could taste one of the tacos with them. That was a crafty move. A Chef who is excited to taste his dish shows me that he’s confident in his food. And he won.

(I do have a small criticism for Richard and the Judges-“upscale” tacos should not be served off a wet cutting board. A nice white plate with a few sprigs of cilantro would have been nice.)

-Present a dish that speaks to the challenge you have been given. Please, please, don’t rant on and on about how your personal interpretation of the “taco” conflicts with the challenge before you to create an “upscale” version of the taco. That’s not what has been asked of you. You’ve been challenged to create an upscale version of a taco that would be suitable on the menu at TOPOLOBAMPO in Chicago-a restaurant owned by one of the country’s foremost Chefs of Mexican cuisine and the winner of “multiple James Beard Awards.” If you are conflicted between your personal opinions and the challenge before you, (Erik and Spike), it just might cloud what you put forward on the plate for the judges. (Erik). What you might think is “street food” in Cabo is not what you were asked to present to the judges table.

It would have been funny if Chef Bayless overheard Erik say that Chef could “go screw himself” in response to the judge’s criticisms. But I don’t think Chef Bayless was watching that interview of Erik slamming the judges critique of his taco mess. Chef Bayless put Erik’s taco drek in simple terms without the aid of an edited clip when he said quite simply that “it was a mess.” And not the winner.

A few more glasses of wine tonight and I might just comment on Padma’s culinary revelation at the judges table for the Elimination Challenge when she proclaimed that “I love the wonton…The wonton is genius!”

[gfweb]

At the risk of inflaming the board, I have to agree that I cannot see 'Mexican cuisine' and 'fine dining' in the same sentence. Same goes for Greek. (Steingarten agrees)

I've eaten widely and well over the years and I've never had classic Greek or Mexican dishes that were not pretty crude.

Note that I say "classic"...meaning the traditional dishes of that country. While I have had Mexican-influenced meals that were in the fine dining category, the classic dishes miss widely. Perhaps I've eaten in the wrong restaurants.

Let me defang all those who'd introduce an element of racism etc into my thoughts. There is none. This is a matter of taste. I actually like mexican food a lot, the stuff is great...just not fine dining.

[nakji]

Same goes for Greek. (Steingarten agrees)

Oh, well then. If Steingarten says so.

I've eaten widely and well over the years and I've never had classic Greek or Mexican dishes that were not pretty crude.

Is "fine dining" defined by how complex the dishes served are? Actually - what elements make something "fine dining" by definition?

At any rate, I think David Ross is correct: their assignment was to translate a taco to fine dining - the very nature of the challenge admits that a taco is not, by definition, fine dining. They weren't supposed to sit around and say, "Well, Mexican food is street food, and can't possibly ever be fine dining, so I'm just going to sit around and roll my eyes about how this guy knows nothing about Mexican food." They were supposed to think about it, and offer a dish that was inspired by the form and ingredients of a taco, but with elements of fine dining (nice plating? luxury ingredients?) I mean, it wasn't a trick question. Rick Bayliss (Bayless?) wasn't going to pop up at the end and say "Fooled you! Mexican food is street! Only those with authentic tacos win!" Which is how it seemed half of the contestants expected it to play out, based on the dishes they presented, which looked a lot like....regular tacos. It seemed to me that Richard was the only one who really thought about it, and responded to the challenge at hand without thinking about any of his own biases. It also looked like the only one I wanted to try.

And it kills me to say that, because I hate that guy's hair.

[David Ross]

If you would like an idea of what "upscale" Mexican cuisine looks like, I recommend going to Chef Bayless's website. Go to his Topolobampo Restaurant and click on the menus.

One example of what I would call upscale Mexican cuisine is this dish from the Spring Dinner Menu:

"Langosta en Crema al Almendra: pan-roasted Maine lobster in velvety almond-thickened guero chile cream. Red quinoa and garlicky braised mustard greens. 38.00" I'd say that is a pretty good example of an "upscale" dish.

Maybe I am naive, but I would have thought that the Top Chef contestants, knowing the competition was going to be in Chicago, would have studied the menus at Rick Bayless's restaurants. Surely they would have anticipated he was going to be one of the judges and would have prepared by familiarizing themselves with his cuisine and the dishes he serves at his restaurants. Wouldn't they?

[Reignking]

And man, Richard got hit pretty hard for the lack of soccarat on his paella! They even said it tasted good, then continued hitting on him to "make sure he knew what a paella is"! Jeez... I'd totally get my butt handed to me... 

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Hey, I learned a new term -- soccarat. Thanks I can't stand it when they nit-pick on the names, such as Casey's Coq au vin last year, because she didn't use an old rooster. I'm sure they'd rail on them if they presented the exact same traditional dish, as well.

As for Andrew's beer-fueled, Underarmor-inspired "We Must Protect This House" tirade, I'm assuming that there was some editing done to get the Tom C reaction they needed. Seemed disjointed.

As for Mexican food being upscale, I think that we don't think about it because of the abundance of awful Americanized Mexican food that works with about 5 ingredients. Bringing traditional cooking techniques together with the distinct flavors of Mexico -- huit-la-coche aka cornsmut for example -- is wonderfully flavorful, but the progress of it is as slow as "Mexican time", seemingly.

On that note, I wish I could be in Mexico City for tacos al pastor -- now that is a great street taco!

[handmc]

This is only for the truly hard core. Gird your livers! The product placement drinking game. See a label take a drink. I bet when the time comes to text into Bravo your favorite, whatever for the week, you will not even be able to see the keypad.

Bayless was the type of judge I expected, tough.

I think Mexican and Greek food can be fine dining I don't care what Stiengarten says. He is just pissed Mexican and Greek food are not centered around bacon.

Erik, the day you can cook like Bayless is the day you can tell him to screw himself. Any time before then you are just a silly soggy corndog making punk.

"This is my house" Please. What's next the cage match elimination challange? The first to make flavored mayo, shank his opponent and get over the top of the cage wins!

Pasta salad? They screwed up Pasta salad. I know it can be done and it can be gastly but wasn't the point (patronizing as it was) to show these folk from the neighborhood how real chefs can make food that is the highlight of the block party. There is no excuse for handing over a poorly made Pasta salad with the pantry of flavors they have access two. Actual cooking time is what 8 - 10 minutes to get the pasta made. The rest of the time is figuring out what to toss in and to make a dressing. Thankfully Mr. soggy dog was still in town or I suspect the happy couple would have been spilt up.

I don't enjoy this part of Top Chef all that much because too much time is spent focused on the goofballs and the goofy chanllenges. But it is worth the wait to see the cooking to follow.

Still is seems none of the contestant has read TC's book he offers a lot of insight to his personal likes and dislikes.

edited because I cannot spell

Edited March 29, 2008 by handmc (log)

[gfweb]

If you would like an idea of what "upscale" Mexican cuisine looks like, I recommend going to Chef Bayless's website.  Go to his Topolobampo Restaurant and click on the menus. 

One example of what I would call upscale Mexican cuisine is this dish from the Spring Dinner Menu:

"Langosta en Crema al Almendra: pan-roasted Maine lobster in velvety almond-thickened guero chile cream. Red quinoa and garlicky braised mustard greens. 38.00"  I'd say that is a pretty good example of an "upscale" dish.

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Looks delicious.

But you are, in a way, sort of making my point. To me this would be a Mexican Influenced dish, not classic Mexican cuisine.

[David Ross]

If you would like an idea of what "upscale" Mexican cuisine looks like, I recommend going to Chef Bayless's website.  Go to his Topolobampo Restaurant and click on the menus. 

One example of what I would call upscale Mexican cuisine is this dish from the Spring Dinner Menu:

"Langosta en Crema al Almendra: pan-roasted Maine lobster in velvety almond-thickened guero chile cream. Red quinoa and garlicky braised mustard greens. 38.00"  I'd say that is a pretty good example of an "upscale" dish.

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Looks delicious.

But you are, in a way, sort of making my point. To me this would be a Mexican Influenced dish, not classic Mexican cuisine.

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You might be right. I'm certainly not the expert on Mexican cuisine and I was merely looking at the issue from what I found on Chef Bayless's website and the posted menu for Topolobampo. It would be interesting to hear how the Chef would answer the question. This is certainly an interesting topic and one that would be appropriate as a new topic in another forum.

But in terms of Top Chef, either way you look at the issue of whether or not there is an upscale or classical Mexican cuisine, most of the Top Chef contestants still didn't follow the directions for the Quickfire Challenge.

[Gruzia]

i think that it is pretty, for lack of a better word, "western-centric" to say that mexican, greek etc food can't be upscale. what does that mean, exactly? that those cuisines can't produce dishes with elegant, refined flavors and innovative presentations? or that they cannot be served in expensive white linen napkin restaurants? i mean, are we talking about food or our perceptions of the countries? personally, i think its ignorant to say, as Erik did, that Mexican food is street food only. and damn disrespectful to the range and variety of culinary traditions of the country.

As for classic versus influenced cuisine - i mean, when French chefs deconstruct French country cooking and serve it in expensive little portions no one is going "Well, that's not quite French. To me, that's more French-influenced."

If you would like an idea of what "upscale" Mexican cuisine looks like, I recommend going to Chef Bayless's website.  Go to his Topolobampo Restaurant and click on the menus. 

One example of what I would call upscale Mexican cuisine is this dish from the Spring Dinner Menu:

"Langosta en Crema al Almendra: pan-roasted Maine lobster in velvety almond-thickened guero chile cream. Red quinoa and garlicky braised mustard greens. 38.00"  I'd say that is a pretty good example of an "upscale" dish.

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Looks delicious.

But you are, in a way, sort of making my point. To me this would be a Mexican Influenced dish, not classic Mexican cuisine.

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You might be right. I'm certainly not the expert on Mexican cuisine and I was merely looking at the issue from what I found on Chef Bayless's website and the posted menu for Topolobampo. It would be interesting to hear how the Chef would answer the question. This is certainly an interesting topic and one that would be appropriate as a new topic in another forum.

But in terms of Top Chef, either way you look at the issue of whether or not there is an upscale or classical Mexican cuisine, most of the Top Chef contestants still didn't follow the directions for the Quickfire Challenge.

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[gfweb]

Our perceptions of the countries should have nothing to do with a judgement on the refinement of their native food. And I would note that Mexico is far more developed and cultured than the average American appreciates.

There is always discomfort when someone makes a judgement of quality. It is by its nature subjective and doesn't have to be fair.

BTW Both Greece and Mexico are part of the West....

Not that I am comparing Greek or Mexican food to caveman cuisine...but as an aid to thinking about this issue....would it be "western -centric" or unfair in some way to say that roast tyranosaurus is a primitive dish? I think not. Similarly, classic Philadelphian cuisine( cheesesteak, hoagie, scrapple, soft pretzel), while delicious, just ain't refined. Doesn't make it bad. So then if this kind of judgement is possible, I think that one may legitimately apply it to cuisines.

[David Ross]

Speaking to our Top Chef topic, this debate first came to light on Wednesday's episode when some of the top whiners on Top Chef snorted that they didn't think a taco was upscale. While their soapbox rants added to portraying them, (Erik and Spike), as the bad boys of the Top Chef clan, they were clearly missing the objective and goal of the Quickfire Challenge. Spike apparently contained his personal thoughts on tacos and presented Chef Bayless with an appropriate dish that met the challenge-and Spike was awarded a spot for creating one of the top three upscale taco dishes.

Well, isn't it curious how the saying "what goes around comes around," sometimes rings true in the end. One of the Top, Top Chef whiners was Erik-he failed miserably in even coming close to meeting the challenge he was told to attempt. It wasn't about the philosophical aspects of the challenge. Erik was roundly booed by Chef Bayless for his feeble taco attempt. Erik's gone now and the competition moves on.