Proof box

[Peggylicious26]

Is a proof box necessary when making croissants?

[Chris Hennes]

When I make them at home I do not use one, and in fact tend to let them rise at a quite low temperature to ensure that the butter does not melt before hitting the hot oven. No proof that this matters, of course, it's just the way I do it .

Edited to add: and welcome to the eGullet Forums!

Edited March 4, 2008 by Chris Hennes (log)

[CanadianBakin']

Is a proof box necessary when making croissants?

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I haven't found it necessary. I use my oven and put a pan of very warm water on the bottom, only warm enough to have a tiny bit of steam. I tried using boiling water once and it just melted all the butter. VERY frustrating after all that work but that's what my recipe had suggested.

[Peggylicious26]

Thank you Chris and candianbakin. I'm going to be making the croissants at my new bakery. Pastries aern't my forte. I run a custom wedding cake business from my home and I've out grown my kitchen space hence the need to move into a bakery. I want to take advantage of the drive through coffee shop that will be next door to my bakery tha's why I plan on opening as a walk in bakery. Can I apply the methods both of you suggested to a large scale production of croissants or other pastries that need proofing?

[alanamoana]

if you keep your ovens on all the time, you should have a warm enough space near them to proof your pastries. often, a proof box is too extreme for danish and croissants (too moist and too warm, even on low settings). just keep them lightly covered so that they don't get a skin, or egg wash before proofing and egg wash again right before going into the oven.

[CanadianBakin']

I didn't realize it was for commerical. In that case, the chef where I took some pastry classes used a regular racking system with a clear plastic zip-on cover that looked a bit like a green house. I'm not totally sure on this but I think I saw a pan of warm water on the bottom rack. He proofed everything in it.

[Chris Hennes]

In a commercial setting my slow-proof technique is probably not efficient enough, but I definitely wouldn't use a proof box like you would for bread, it will be much too warm for the puff pastry. The key for efficient commercial production will be to rise them in an environment that is humid and as warm as possible before melting the butter. The precise melting point will depend very much on your specific butter, but will probably be between 85F and 90F for a typical U.S. mass-produced butter.

[PastryGuru]

I didn't realize it was for commerical. In that case, the chef where I took some pastry classes used a regular racking system with a clear plastic zip-on cover that looked a bit like a green house. I'm not totally sure on this but I think I saw a pan of warm water on the bottom rack. He proofed everything in it.

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Proof boxes are helpful when you are limited on time. But you should also be doing enough volume to justify the costs. I would say that if you're only baking off a couple dozen daily, you really don't need a proof box.

I've used the above method when I was working on a shoestring budget and it worked quite well. I made up my croissant and danish dough once a week and kept it in the freezer. Before I left for the day, I pulled what I needed and set it on a rack that was covered with a heavy duty zip-on cover...no warm water. Nothing ever over-proofed but I had to keep a watchful eye because the temperature was not controlled. During the summer, I had to start my day earlier because the kitchen was warmer. During the winter, I had to adjust my baking schedule and bake the croissants after the bread because the kitchen was cooler.

[Peggylicious26]

Thank you all for your input. I plan to keep my bakery temperature at 65F year round so I don't know how much role that would play, the butter I use has 83% butterfat content.I made some puff pastry dough earlier today(my first attempt) and I plan on baking them tomorrow. I'll post pictures of the finished product.

PastryGuru, my plan is to start out with very limited quantities of pastries as I'm very new to making pastries although I own a custum wedding cakes company pastries aren't really my forte. I was born and raised in Nigeria where pastries aren't a big part of our cuisine. I've actually only tasted croissants once while I was living in London!

[DessertsByDesign]

Not at all!

Obviously, if you are doing volume, it will make proofing much more consistent and efficient.

The method I use currently is a speedrack with a commercial rack cover (heavy clear vinyl with a zippered door. I place the washed croissant near the top of the rack with a hotel pan full of hot tap water (120*F) near the bottom. Heat rises and the water keeps them moist. The pans are rotated top to bottom every hour or so. We use a probe thermometer to monitor temperature at the top, and if it exceeds 85*F it can unzip and vent out some heat, or if it drops below 75*F we replace the water. Its not the most effecient method in the world, but its pretty cocsistent and a regular routine, and it does not take much time or effort. We produce 2 doz croissant, and 1 doz pain au chocolate daily, sometimes Danish. BTW, my croissant and Danish are bulk fermented overnight before lamination, and the average final proof is about 4-5 hours. Room temp is usally 72-76*F.

If you are needing a faster method, I have done a similar method with small holes punched in the top of the clear rack cover, a full hotel pan of water in the bottom with a lid and a sterno under the pan of water, you can adjust the sterno flame as well as adjust the cover on the hotel pan to allow steam and heat out, to keep the "proof rack" at a consistent 80-85*F.

I've been using these methods at every restaurant/resort that did not have a proofer. All the hotels I've been at have had proofer-retarders, life's much easier with one of those!!

Just don't go too hot for too long or you'll melt your butter, and end up with dry, greasy, delaminated glorified crescent rolls

Hope that helps...

[Peggylicious26]

I obviously have alot to learn about pastries. The recipe books I'm using didn't specify how long the croissants need to proof. I allowed mine to proof for about 30mins ( they were almost twice thier original size) before baking them and I think I baked them too long. I bakes them at 425F for 10mins and they looked overly brown on top. I've attached a photo of the finished croissants. Not sure what they're supposed to look like.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Peggylicious26 (log)

[gfron1]

Peggy - many of in this forum think people usually underbake their goods, so I'm glad you didn't do that But, yeah, they look a bit over baked - I would say on both the top and bottom. I've taken to using two airbake pans under my "delicate" pastries like croissants, and dropping them to a lower rack. Seems to be working for me.

[alanamoana]

Peggy, I think they're barely overbaked. Maybe by one or two minutes at the most.

They don't look bad considering your lack of experience. There's good layering inside and you can see the flakiness. I think you might have proofed them a bit warm as I can see the inside layers are a bit stuck together or there is a small bit of raw dough - that would indicate that the outside was proofed but the inside stayed cold and didn't proof along with the outside.

There are no hard and fast rules regarding baking and proofing. It becomes a "it feels right" kind of thing. I never worry about times and temps with these things and just rely on look, feel and smell. The croissants should about double in size and when you touch them they should be soft without deflating. You still want them to have some oven spring when they hit the heat. If it works for you, you can start the oven off a little higher to get your oven spring and then turn it down to brown the croissants more evenly. Always make sure to rotate the trays front to back and top to bottom about halfway or two thirds of the way through baking as there is no such thing as a perfect oven.