Ph 10 Pâtisserie Pierre Hermé

[John DePaula]

Recently, I’ve gone through my copy of ph10 and selected some recipes try out. Fairly often, I come across an ingredient or specialized pastry term that I have no idea what it is. I want to start defining some of these terms here so that we may all get better use out of the book. So, please post your questions about ingredients, sources, and/or techniques here. Sometimes I just making an educated guess so if you know better, please speak up!

I’ll begin:

végétaline : hydrogenated coconut oil

beurre de La Viette : a French AOC demi-sel (?) butter

pectine Ruban Jaune : yellow pectin

[tan319]

According to Wikipedia (French Style) " végétaline is composed of coconut oil hydrogenated. The hydrogénisation of coconut oil can raise the melting temperature and thus a more hard at room temperature."

Is it being used in a bon bon?

Or a creme?

My copy shold be here tomorrow.

the buerre de la Viette is his preferred butter it seems, the "Macaron" book uses it everywhere.

The demi sel means "half salt" salted butter.

Is that being used in a caramel type of preparation?

The pectin I see listed often, in his recipes and other French chefs.

After googling everywhere it hust seems like pectin as in a good apple pectin.

It DOES make me think that maybe it has a reddish tint and maybe could have some citrus pectin in it again.

really interested in what you're cooking!

Good Luck!

[John DePaula]

According to Wikipedia (French Style) " végétaline is composed of coconut oil hydrogenated. The hydrogénisation of coconut oil can raise the melting temperature and thus a more hard at room temperature."

Is it being used in a bon bon?

Or a creme?

My copy shold be here tomorrow.

the buerre de la Viette is his preferred butter it seems, the "Macaron" book uses it everywhere.

The demi sel means "half salt" salted butter.

Is that being used in a caramel type of preparation?

The pectin I see listed often, in his recipes and other French chefs.

After googling everywhere it hust seems like pectin as in a good apple pectin.

It DOES make me think that maybe it has a reddish tint and maybe could have some citrus pectin in it again.

really interested in what you're cooking!

Good Luck!

←

Yes, the vegetaline and beurre de la viette is being used in a caramel bonbon.

I knew that 'demi-sel' means 'half-salt' but I wasn't sure that this particular butter is 'demi-sel.' Do you know for sure?

I was a little skeptical about the vegetaline being coconut oil because it's often used to make french fries, so that seems kind of odd...

I think that the pectin is just regular apple pectin but I'm not positive about that. Ruban Jaune may just be the brand name.

Edited December 2, 2008 by John DePaula (log)

[tan319]

RE: Buerre: "Demi" =half, as in "je voudrais un demi de beirre"

Salted butter is all over the place in the "mac" book.

Apple pectin will do you right.

[John DePaula]

RE: Buerre: "Demi" =half, as in "je voudrais un demi de beirre" 

Salted butter is all over the place in the "mac" book.

Apple pectin will do you right.

←

I'm gonna need 2 demi's of bierre after my day in the kitchen today; maybe even 4...

But about the butter, in one recipe he specifies "beurre demi-sel." One of the last ingredients in the same recipe is "beurre de La Viette."

My question is: is this a salted (demi-sel) butter?

[Ptipois]

végétaline : hydrogenated coconut oil

beurre de La Viette : a French AOC demi-sel (?) butter

pectine Ruban Jaune : yellow pectin

←

I did the editing on PH10 and I can answer a few questions (but please bear in mind that the job feels pretty remote in time to me now, that I don't have a copy at home - or none that I can locate - and it might be tricky to search for the original texts I worked on in my computer files).

You're right for Végétaline (I am not sure it is hydrogenated though, but I haven't checked).

Edit: okay, it is hydrogenated. It is, indeed, used for french fries (and makes the best french fries beside animal fat) but I suppose it is used in the chocolate bonbons for its texture and hypersaturation which makes it solidify in the cold.

Beurre de La Viette used by Pierre Hermé, unless mentioned otherwise, is not demi-sel but sweet (doux). There is no mention of that because butter in French pastry is nearly always sweet. La Viette is a brand of Charentes butter (very dry and pure, quite tasteless IMO).

Demi-sel is not "demi" as in "un demi de bière" but means that the butter is lightly salted. There used to be "beurre salé" (salted butter) and beurre demi-sel (less salted). Now only demi-sel remains aside from doux. The practice of salting butter heavily to preserve it has disappeared long ago.

Hermé uses two different pectins, Ruban Jaune and NH. Ruban Jaune is said "irréversible" and NH is "thermo-réversible". Thermo-réversible means that the pectin may be reheated again and will solidify. Irréversible means that once solidified, it cannot be melted and solidifed one more time. Thus I am not sure Ruban Jaune, being a brand name, means "yellow pectin".

Edited December 2, 2008 by Ptipois (log)

[John DePaula]

végétaline : hydrogenated coconut oil

beurre de La Viette : a French AOC demi-sel (?) butter

pectine Ruban Jaune : yellow pectin

←

I did the editing on PH10 and I can answer a few questions (but please bear in mind that the job feels pretty remote in time to me now, that I don't have a copy at home - or none that I can locate - and it might be tricky to search for the original texts I worked on in my computer files).

You're right for Végétaline (I am not sure it is hydrogenated though, but I haven't checked).

Edit: okay, it is hydrogenated. It is, indeed, used for french fries (and makes the best french fries beside animal fat) but I suppose it is used in the chocolate bonbons for its texture and hypersaturation which makes it solidify in the cold.

Beurre de La Viette used by Pierre Hermé, unless mentioned otherwise, is not demi-sel but sweet (doux). There is no mention of that because butter in French pastry is nearly always sweet. La Viette is a brand of Charentes butter (very dry and pure, quite tasteless IMO).

Demi-sel is not "demi" as in "un demi de bière" but means that the butter is lightly salted. There used to be "beurre salé" (salted butter) and beurre demi-sel (less salted). Now only demi-sel remains aside from doux. The practice of salting butter heavily to preserve it has disappeared long ago.

Hermé uses two different pectins, Ruban Jaune and NH. Ruban Jaune is said "irréversible" and NH is "thermo-réversible". Thermo-réversible means that the pectin may be reheated again and will solidify. Irréversible means that once solidified, it cannot be melted and solidifed one more time. Thus I am not sure Ruban Jaune, being a brand name, means "yellow pectin".

←

Thank you very very much, Ptipois; that was a very helpful post! By the way, ph10 is a gorgeous book and very well written. I, for one, am grateful for your contributions to make it so!

to recap:

• Végétaline : hydrogenated coconut oil
  Characteristics: Good for French fries; makes fillings firmer at room temperature
  
• beurre de La Viette : a French AOC butter from Charentes
  Characteristics: low-moisture, neutral, unsalted butter
  
• pectine Ruban Jaune : pectin
  Characteristic: thermo-irreversible
  
• pectine NH : pectin
  Characteristic: thermo-reversible
  

Edited December 2, 2008 by John DePaula (log)

[John DePaula]

I am looking at another recipe, one for a Coffee Anise bonbon, that uses mélange PH. I have no idea what that is. Anyone?

[lapin d'or]

Just a guess but if you look at his web site http://www.pierreherme.com/e-gourmandises/...194316ph8429570 there sems to be a coffee blend called melange PH.

[John DePaula]

Just a guess but if you look at his web site http://www.pierreherme.com/e-gourmandises/...194316ph8429570 there sems to be a coffee blend called melange PH.

←

Ok, well, duh! Thanks, Lapin d'or. I did not see that when I did a google search.

From the link above: A mixture of top quality coffees and complementary flavors selected by Pierre Hermé. The mocha of Ethiopia associated with Colombian coffee.

So:

• mélange PH : Coffee blend selected by Pierre Hermé
  Characteristics: The mocha of Ethiopia associated with Colombian coffee
  

[tan319]

Spending some time on PH's website will tell you a lot about his ing.

The editing notes are a bonus, thanks!

I did have my tongue a bit in cheek about the butter.

Sel = salt, correct?

[dougal]

...

Demi-sel is not "demi" as in "un demi de bière" but ...

←

I'm not quite sure anything is like 'demi' as in 'un demi de bierre'.

Particularly since it refers (nowadays) to a quarter litre of beer.

The French seem to love old unit names, while adjusting them to the modern day. For example, market traders may price their fruit and veg by the "livre" (pound), but they don't mean 453.6 grams (1lb) by that term, they actually mean 500 grams - an exact demi-kilo.

However I'd suggest that 'demi-sel' was pretty much in the same direction as 'demi-sec', where 'demi' doesn't mean an exact half, but simply a partial fraction, anywhere between "a bit" and "less than fully". (In the same sort of way that the English term for an inadequate response, a 'half-measure', implies no precision whatsoever. Its probably significant this example also refers to a somewhat archaic useage of the word 'measure'!)

I wonder if we could clarify another detail more explicitly?

Does 'beurre doux' merely mean 'unsalted'?

Or does it imply an unsalted sweet-cream (ie not cultured) butter? (Which would have a very much less "buttery" flavour... some might even say "tasteless"... )

I can imagine that the creamy, rather than buttery, taste of a non-cultured butter could be desirable when using it as the vehicle for other flavours - is that what PH is doing with his "La Viette"?

[tan319]

My copy of PH10 finally came...

Wow, still absorbing.

It covers so much ground, this is going to be good!

Only one slight gripe...

The layout is a bit confusing.

Some times the composition layout, ingredients list will start on a half page and I find myself not quite sure of what I'm looking at.

I had "Macaroon" first ( as well as PLAISIRS SUCRÉS) and both are a bit easier to follow, to me at least.

But what the hell, It's PH10 , mates!

I can't wait to try out some of this...

[John DePaula]

Yes, it's a gorgeous book but I agree about the layout. I have taken to creating my own index for recipes that I want to try so that I'll be able to find them at a glance. Also, I think there may have been a poor job of editing? For example, for many (but not all) of the Pates de fruits recipes, the method says (translating from the French), "Mix the 120g of crystal sugar and the pectin. ... add the sugar-pectin mixture, bring to a boil then incorporate the rest of the sugar and glucose." (e.g. p462)

However, the ingredients list two quantities of sugar:

• 60g crystal sugar, and
  
• 600g crystal sugar
  

So, I assume the method should read: "Mix the 60g of crystal sugar" right?

[tan319]

Yes, it's a gorgeous book but I agree about the layout.  I have taken to creating my own index for recipes that I want to try so that I'll be able to find them at a glance.  Also, I think there may have been a poor job of editing?  For example, for many (but not all) of the Pates de fruits recipes, the method says (translating from the French), "Mix the 120g of crystal sugar and the pectin.  ...  add the sugar-pectin mixture, bring to a boil then incorporate the rest of the sugar and glucose."  (e.g. p462)

However, the ingredients list two quantities of sugar:

• 60g crystal sugar, and
  
• 600g crystal sugar
  

So, I assume the method should read: "Mix the 60g of crystal sugar"  right?

←

'Hope so...

Is sugar & glucose referenced in any other pate de fruit recipe?

Usually, those kind of typos just require you charging thru it.

You make pate de fruit all of time, yes?

The only thing I've noticed in my light scan was he likes to use pectin NH also.After I look thru some more I'll get back to this.

BTW, did you notice any others.

I also was wondering if pitipois could throw any theory forth on why they didn't do an English version?

[John DePaula]

Yes, it's a gorgeous book but I agree about the layout.  I have taken to creating my own index for recipes that I want to try so that I'll be able to find them at a glance.  Also, I think there may have been a poor job of editing?  For example, for many (but not all) of the Pates de fruits recipes, the method says (translating from the French), "Mix the 120g of crystal sugar and the pectin.  ...  add the sugar-pectin mixture, bring to a boil then incorporate the rest of the sugar and glucose."  (e.g. p462)

However, the ingredients list two quantities of sugar:

• 60g crystal sugar, and
  
• 600g crystal sugar
  

So, I assume the method should read: "Mix the 60g of crystal sugar"  right?

←

'Hope so...

Is sugar & glucose referenced in any other pate de fruit recipe?

Usually, those kind of typos just require you charging thru it.

You make pate de fruit all of time, yes?

The only thing I've noticed in my light scan was he likes to use pectin NH also.After I look thru some more I'll get back to this.

BTW, did you notice any others.

I also was wondering if pitipois could throw any theory forth on why they didn't do an English version?

←

Yes, in many (all?) he uses glucose and sugar. In some, he has 60/60 and in others he has 60/120. I do make PdF all the time but his recipes are significantly different from the Boiron recettes.

I didn't notice any other typos but will be on the lookout for them.

[tan319]

Wow, that's significant!

Why would the one leave it out?

I'm new to the whole pate de fruit thing so I'm hoping to catch up.

I just looked at page 462, the "Satine" Pate de Fruit and couldn't really see what you are talking about.

However, I did notice that most every if not all of the recipes had that 60 grams of ... listed, it's almost a standardized approach so, to me, it's just a case of an editor missing it.

'Hope that helps.

Edited to add: Hope I didn't sound flip.

I just meant "go for it"!

Edited December 15, 2008 by tan319 (log)

[tan319]

A question for any of you ph10-ers.

The cake au voyage, like "carrement" or Isaphan, the ones that almost look like they're baked in a "pain de mie" loaf pan with lid.

Are they?

I can't find anything in the recipe specifying it.

I did read him talking about silicone loaf pans.

When I was in France last year (very southwest, Angouleme) many pastry shops were doing the same look.

I wish I would have asked

Any info appreciated

PS: I have an extra of ph10 if anyone is interested.

PM me?

[Scout_21]

Does anyone know that the "HF 66" is on page 311?

Cheers

[John DePaula]

Does anyone know that the "HF 66" is on page 311?

Cheers

←

This is an emulsifier - possibly a cellulose gum, according to one site that I found.

[Scout_21]

Thanks. I could only find links leading to various glazes and dialysis info from the HF 66.

[ejw50]

thanks to Ptipois for those notes and also to John for putting it all together!