Where to eat in Philly?

[ulterior epicure]

Schweet-haht, you just allowed your open can of worms to go on one terrific reproductive binge: by that particular definition, virtually every restaurant, river to river and Vine to Christian, fits the bill. Probably some others.

And that's with just two Capogirae. I shudder to think of the domination they could achieve if they really put their shoulder to the wheel, metastasis-wise.

I think at this point you need to ask yourself which dinner spot you really feel for, and pick a Capogiro to match.

You're right. Who am I kidding? I might as tell my friend that we're having dinner at Capogiro.

So, friend, however tried and true he is, has just admitted to being Philly pork sandwiched-out. So, if DiNic's doesn't happen on Saturday, can you all offer an alternative non-brunch mid-day meal? I love pancakes and waffles. But, I can make them at home. If I can't get my local eats on, then I might as well get something semi-sophisticated.

[andanand]

Schweet-haht, you just allowed your open can of worms to go on one terrific reproductive binge: by that particular definition, virtually every restaurant, river to river and Vine to Christian, fits the bill. Probably some others.

And that's with just two Capogirae. I shudder to think of the domination they could achieve if they really put their shoulder to the wheel, metastasis-wise.

I think at this point you need to ask yourself which dinner spot you really feel for, and pick a Capogiro to match.

You're right. Who am I kidding? I might as tell my friend that we're having dinner at Capogiro.

So, friend, however tried and true he is, has just admitted to being Philly pork sandwiched-out. So, if DiNic's doesn't happen on Saturday, can you all offer an alternative non-brunch mid-day meal? I love pancakes and waffles. But, I can make them at home. If I can't get my local eats on, then I might as well get something semi-sophisticated.

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Quite honestly, there are approximately a million things to eat in Reading Terminal Market. So while you get your Roast Pork with Rabe and Provolone, your friend can find something else and you can sit together and you can mock his inevitably inferior lunch.

[ulterior epicure]

Are there places to sit? The last time I was in RTM (which was about four years ago, now), I literally ran through it just to get a sense of the place (it was one of those pit-stop business trips and I had like 2 hours to get Philly cheese steaks at Geno's/Pat's and see RTM.

[philadining]

There are central seating areas, so indeed, you could go get a DiNic's Roast Pork, and your friend could get a pastrami sandwich from Hershel's, or a hoagie from Carmen's or Salumeria, or making things even easier, a brisket sandwich at DiNic's... or any of a hundred other things. If a guy can't find something appealing to eat at the Reading Terminal, he may have lost his will to live.

As to your dinner plans, don't get lost in excessive Capogyrations. Center City Philly just isn't all that big, and a moderate walk or short cab ride will get you to one of the Capogiros pretty quickly from anywhere you're likely to be.

Their summer hours are

Mon-Thurs - 7:30am-11:30pm

Fri - 7:30am-1am

Sat - 8am-1am

Sun - 10am-11:30pm

I suspect you might be able to squeeze in there... (although earlier is better than later, they can run out of certain flavors.) The appeal of just stumbling out of Tinto and into Capogiro is strong, and I think you'd like Tinto in any case, but I wouldn't let its location dominate your decision-making.

Edited June 21, 2008 by philadining (log)

[Bluehensfan]

There are central seating areas, so indeed, you could go get a DiNic's Roast Pork, and your friend could get a pastrami sandwich from Hershel's, or a hoagie from Carmen's or Salumeria, or making things even easier, a brisket sandwich at DiNic's... or any of a hundred other things.  If a guy can't find something appealing to eat at the Reading Terminal, he may have lost his will to live.

As to your dinner plans, don't get lost in excessive Capogyrations.  Center City Philly just isn't all that big, and a moderate walk or short cab ride will get you to one of the Capogiros pretty quickly from anywhere you're likely to be. 

Their summer hours are

Mon-Thurs - 7:30am-11:30pm

Fri  - 7:30am-1am

Sat - 8am-1am

Sun - 10am-11:30pm

I suspect you might be able to squeeze in there...  (although earlier is better than later, they can  run out of certain flavors.)  The appeal of just stumbling out of Tinto and into Capogiro is strong, and I think you'd like Tinto in any case, but I wouldn't let its location dominate your decision-making.

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Watch out about coming to Capogiro too early in the day. Today I stopped in at high noon for my bacio fix and was left hanging. (And my second choice, the hazelnut was too frozen for them to scoop out).

I feel like Seinfeld and his marble rye about now.

[ulterior epicure]

Thanks for the warning. I'm not too worried since I usually tend toward the more "acquired taste" flavors.

Have they ever made a blue cheese gelato, by any chance (e.g. Roquefort or Gorgonzola)? How about yogurt?

As an aside, yogurt gelato is the benchmark by which I measure all gelateria. Last time I was in Capogiro, I don't remember there being any. Then again, every time I've been, I tend to become so overwhelmed that I can't think straight. Too. Many. Exciting. Flavors.

[katbert]

Thanks for the warning.  I'm not too worried since I usually tend toward the more "acquired taste" flavors.

Have they ever made a blue cheese gelato, by any chance (e.g. Roquefort or Gorgonzola)?  How about yogurt? 

As an aside, yogurt gelato is the benchmark by which I measure all gelateria.  Last time I was in Capogiro, I don't remember there being any.  Then again, every time I've been, I tend to become so overwhelmed that I can't think straight.  Too. Many. Exciting. Flavors.

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Last Saturday there was a vanilla yogurt flavour at the 20th St Capogiro- and I've never seen them do a blue cheese flavour. You can check online to see which flavours are at which location. I had the strawberry tarragon and the lemon opal basil (everyone else in my party found this too tart but I like the awake flavour). My personal favourite is the rosemary honey goat's milk.

Also, the a/c at the 20th street location doesn't work too well.

[ulterior epicure]

Okay, all of this Philly talk has nearly convinced me to augment my trip by two nights (read: two more dinners and lunches, each).

Thus: Lunch beyond DiNic's at RTM is now possible.

In addition to Tinto and Vetri, I can have two more dinners. I'm thinking about doing Vetri twice - advisable?

Other considerations are:

Zahav

Ansill

James (still feel rocky given the luke-warm response)

Matyson

Cochon

Any votes as to this last group? Are any of these just as enjoyable/feasible for lunch?

Edited to add: This also means two more blissful days of Capogiro.

Edited June 24, 2008 by ulterior epicure (log)

[Bluehensfan]

Okay, all of this Philly talk has nearly convinced me to augment my trip by two nights (read: two more dinners and lunches, each). 

Thus: Lunch beyond DiNic's at RTM is now possible.

In addition to Tinto and Vetri, I can have two more dinners.  I'm thinking about doing Vetri twice - advisable? 

Other considerations are:

Zahav

Ansill

James (still feel rocky given the luke-warm response)

Matyson

Cochon

Any votes as to this last group?  Are any of these just as enjoyable/feasible for lunch?

Edited to add: This also means two more blissful days of Capogiro.

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I know that none of the places under "other considerations" are open for lunch on Saturday if it helps and quite possibly are closed on Sunday as well.

Zahav just got a rocking review in Philadelphia Magazine and Matyson's been good for years. Cochon seems to be the "hot" BYO these days and Ansill is always reliable. And then there is James.

[ulterior epicure]

Zahav just got a rocking review in Philadelphia Magazine and Matyson's been good for years. Cochon seems to be the "hot" BYO these days and Ansill is always reliable. And then there is James.

It's good to know that I'm in good company. See my confusion?!

[Bluehensfan]

Zahav just got a rocking review in Philadelphia Magazine and Matyson's been good for years. Cochon seems to be the "hot" BYO these days and Ansill is always reliable. And then there is James.

It's good to know that I'm in good company. See my confusion?!

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I guess it depends on what type of cuisine you're after. Honestly I know of no other place in Philly serving Israeli cuisine in a setting like Zahav, so in that respect it's unique and much different than your other choices. But it has been getting mixed reviews on other sites as has James. And the food at James is more like your other choices that have been more reliable, so maybe I'd suggest axing that one?

Maybe I should be asking you if I made the right choice booking at Gotham Bar and Grill for lunch in NYC for an upcoming trip.

[andanand]

If you do try Zahav, I would suggest going on a Thursday night if at all possible. Solomonov just started doing his "Quarter Kitchen" $65 tasting menus and they look amazing. Those are similar to (and actually some of the classics from) the old Marigold Kitchen.

This is not to say that the other food isn't great, because I don't know. But I could never say no to those sweetbreads with crispy chicken skin. Amazing.

[jm chen]

In addition to Tinto and Vetri, I can have two more dinners.  I'm thinking about doing Vetri twice - advisable? 

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Not in my opinion. But you could then consider Osteria. Though personally, if this is a Taste Philadelphia trip, I think you need a BYO. Wait, four dinners? Yeah, Vetri, Tinto, Osteria/Cochon/Ansill (haven't been to Cochon or Ansill so can't vouch) and then Matyson if day 4 is a Monday. Their tasting menu is only available Monday-Thursday. It's hardly shabby on other nights, but the tasting menu is a step up.

If you're adding a Sunday, I hear the brunch at Lacroix at the Rittenhouse is pretty incredible. Though I'm not sure it leaves a person hungry for dinner. Brunch at Lacroix and then a 10pm pizza at Osteria, maybe?

I get so hungry reading this thread.

[ulterior epicure]

If you do try Zahav, I would suggest going on a Thursday night if at all possible. Solomonov just started doing his "Quarter Kitchen" $65 tasting menus and they look amazing. Those are similar to (and actually some of the classics from) the old Marigold Kitchen.

This is not to say that the other food isn't great, because I don't know. But I could never say no to those sweetbreads with crispy chicken skin. Amazing.

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This sounds great. I don't know anything about what Solomonov was doing at Marigold, but it seems that there is a consensus that it was good, if not great. This "Quarter Kitchen" is only offered on Thursdays? So, it's different than the "Mesibah" ("Party Time") menu offered for $50 p/person in the lower right hand corner of the regular menu (I'm assuming this is something of a family-style eating?)?

I love Israeli food. Their regular menu looks great as it is.

[Buckethead]

If you do try Zahav, I would suggest going on a Thursday night if at all possible. Solomonov just started doing his "Quarter Kitchen" $65 tasting menus and they look amazing. Those are similar to (and actually some of the classics from) the old Marigold Kitchen.

This is not to say that the other food isn't great, because I don't know. But I could never say no to those sweetbreads with crispy chicken skin. Amazing.

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This sounds great. I don't know anything about what Solomonov was doing at Marigold, but it seems that there is a consensus that it was good, if not great. This "Quarter Kitchen" is only offered on Thursdays? So, it's different than the "Mesibah" ("Party Time") menu offered for $50 p/person in the lower right hand corner of the regular menu (I'm assuming this is something of a family-style eating?)?

I love Israeli food. Their regular menu looks great as it is.

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I've been to Marigold under Michael's tenure a few times, and I've been to Zahav a few times, and I have to say that I like the food he's making at Zahav much better. I would skip the Thursday night dinner and just go to Zahav and order off the regular menu.

The 'party time' (which I haven't done there yet) is part of the regular Zahav menu, not the same thing as the tasting menu in the private room.

James has been a disappointment on each of my two visits, though on the second visit I was just eating the canapes at the bar.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Buckethead (log)

[MarketStEl]

If you are making a stop at the RTM, d'ya think you could (a) do it on Saturday midday and (b) give me a heads-up as to rough time?

That's my usual grocery shopping day, and I wouldn't mind reconnoitering if that's possible, seeing as how you are also familiar with my hometown and all. I could certainly work my swing by the RTM in around your schedule.

I'm hard up for serious dinner money of late, what with travel to Seattle and Miami and some past obligations to clear up, so most of my non-lunch dining has been at places well below the ones you've been recommended here on the quality/novelty/excitement scale, but they all have the virtue of being places I can afford on a regular basis. Lunch at the RTM is therefore a better option for me if this can happen.

[ulterior epicure]

I know, I know. You all probably can't wait for my trip to happen so that I'll shut up with my questions:

1. Plans have changed slightly for Saturday night. We're now a party of three friends who want to catch up. Although Tinto did sound great (especially its proximity to Capogiro), Amada's menu looks more interesting (the difference in the cheese selection was especially noteworthy; I'm a cheesehead). So, for a Saturday night, will Amada be too loud/busy for three long-lost friends to catch up on conversation? I need to look at a map, but I'm pretty sure Amada isn't going to be *that* far from *a* Capogiro.

2. Osteria Vetri/Amada: is lunch a good consolation prize, if dinner at either isn't feasible? I mean, I see that the much-touted Lombardo pizza is offered at lunch. I'm also assuming Amada doesn't have a seperate (watered-down) lunch menu.

3. Looking at Vetri's "Degustazione" menus online: does one get all of the courses listed (I think there's something in the order of 12-15 per menu)? Or, does one choose from the different sections (in which case, I think the menu ceases to be a "chef's tasting menu" in the strictest sense of the phrase)?

4. A quick pulse vote: Matyson or Zahav (tasting menu)?

Thanks for all of your patience and help.

[mattohara]

amada's about 10 blocks east of the closest Capogiro.

i'm going to Matyson tonight! i'll get around to Zahav at some point but i don't want to miss this lobster menu.

i'm sure Vetri doesn't do lunch. not sure about Amada.

Amada is guaranteed to be busy/noisy. that's one of the things that makes it fun.

not sure about 3 as i still haven't been there despite having a gift certificate.

[philadining]

1. ...Amada's menu looks more interesting (the difference in the cheese selection was especially noteworthy; I'm a cheesehead). 

Just in general, other than cheese, I tend to think of Tinto's menu as offering more unusual stuff, but you've seen both places offerings, and if Amada appeals more, go there. Except...

So, for a Saturday night, will Amada be too loud/busy for three long-lost friends to catch up on conversation? 

I like Amada a lot, but on saturday nights, it's freaking loud.

I need to look at a map, but I'm pretty sure Amada isn't going to be *that* far from *a* Capogiro.

Not exceedingly so, although it's about as far as you can get from one and still be in Center City!

2. Osteria Vetri/Amada: is lunch a good consolation prize, if dinner at either isn't feasible?  I mean, I see that the much-touted Lombardo pizza is offered at lunch.  I'm also assuming Amada doesn't have a seperate (watered-down) lunch menu.

Lunch can be good at either place, many of the items are the same (like pizzas at Osteria) but you'll miss out on dinner specials, which can occasionally be spectacular (like Osteria's Roast pig.)

3. Looking at Vetri's "Degustazione" menus online: does one get all of the courses listed (I think there's something in the order of 12-15 per menu)?  Or, does one choose from the different sections (in which case, I think the menu ceases to be a "chef's tasting menu" in the strictest sense of the phrase)? 

I think this has been covered in recent posts somewhere, if I remember correctly, diners do get some choice from the larger list.

4. A quick pulse vote: Matyson or Zahav (tasting menu)? 

Sorry, not qualified to vote. Matyson is excellent. Haven't been to Zahav, but it's been getting good notices. Zahav would be the more stylistically distinctive of the two.

[jm chen]

You know what you need at this point? More options!

#1 cheesehead destination in Philly isTria. The 18th & Sansom location is open for lunch during the week and on Saturdays. (Capogiro Proximity Factor: 2 blocks.) Sandwiches (w/cheese) and salads (w/cheese) and cheese (w/condiments).

Amada and Tinto are only open for lunch on weekdays. Osteria lunch is Thursdays and Fridays from 11:30 to 2 according to their website.

Somehow this is turning into a story problem.

[philadining]

Excellent concept Jael: from now on, I think all recommendations for Ulterior Epicure should include a CPF number.

[ulterior epicure]

Excellent concept Jael: from now on, I think all recommendations for Ulterior Epicure should include a CPF number.

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That is *awesome* jm chen/philadining. I'd be honored to be the man for whom the CPF index was invented.

Excellent suggestiosn, jm chen.

This isn't a story problem at all, as I will be in Philly for a number of weekdays and weekend days. Now, it becomes a mind-bender puzzle - how to fit them all in perfectly. I'm sure it will work, one way or another.

Edited June 30, 2008 by ulterior epicure (log)

[Capaneus]

4. A quick pulse vote: Matyson or Zahav (tasting menu)? 

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Matyson has been doing amazing food, though Philadining is absolutely correct to point out it isn't terribly novel - just delicious. The absolutely only complaint I've heard is that their weekly tasting menus tend to be structured the same, week after week. Some of the more... discriminating, let's say, among us, have found this a problem. Me, not very much. And since you won't be doing multiple weeks' worth, not a concern for you at all.

Zahav... I just don't really like the base cuisine all that much, so I'm a poor judge. Others' opinions are bound to be more enlightening.

[ulterior epicure]

The absolutely only complaint I've heard is that their weekly tasting menus tend to be structured the same, week after week.

What is this "structure?"

Zahav... I just don't really like the base cuisine all that much, so I'm a poor judge. Others' opinions are bound to be more enlightening.

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See, I love Israeli cuisine.

[Capaneus]

The absolutely only complaint I've heard is that their weekly tasting menus tend to be structured the same, week after week.

What is this "structure?"

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For a few weeks running, the menus would consist basically of soup (often with dumpling), charcuterie (this course varied most often, though), scallop dish, lamb dish, and dessert. Now, to be perfectly clear: as far as I'm concerned, the variations made every menu entirely distinctive - I was not one of those this bothered.

Others have lower thresholds for tedium.

And, in any case, this has not been true in recent weeks.