Using Margarine

[Pam R]

I feel like I'm outting myself here.

As you read through the forums, you might get a general sense of anti-margarine feelings. Many might suggest using butter, lard, olive oil, or another fat instead. All great suggestions, but there are times when that doesn't work.

This obviously does not apply to the majority, but for anybody who keeps kosher or needs to adhere to the kashrut laws for any reason, butter or lard just won't work. If a meal will contain meat at any point, no dairy products can be used -- at any point. And there are some recipes that don't lend themselves to olive oil use.

Next, lactose intolerance. Same issue as above - can't use dairy, fluid oils and/or lard won't work in a recipe. Margarine (or shortening) is called for.

Surely we can see that margarine has a place in some (not all, just some) kitchens. If it helps, I'm fairly picky about my margarine. I've posted this in other topics, but my choice is always Earth Balance. It's non-hydrogenated, no trans-fats, good for vegan diets and the sticks are great for baking.

Please tell me I'm not alone. What recipes do you use that call for margarine -- and don't work with anything else? What situations call for it?

[FoodMan]

Sorry, I never use it. There is nothing like butter. I can see why you would need to though if it is not kosher. So, is butter not kosher at all? I thought you could not use it too cook meats, but other than that it's ok.

As for lactose intolerance, butter has very little lactose left in them. Most people would have to eat enough to get sick for other reasons before they ate enough lactose to affect them.

[paulraphael]

I would forsake any god that demanded eating margarine.

[Chris Hennes]

My mother insists that Kraft Mac n Cheese made with Parkay margarine is the one true mac and cheese...

ETA: My understanding of Kosher was that you could have either meat or dairy in your meal, but not both. That would explain why no butter with the steak. Is that not the correct interpretation here?

Edited February 5, 2008 by Chris Hennes (log)

[Pam R]

So, is butter not kosher at all? I thought you could not use it too cook meats, but other than that it's ok.

Butter is kosher -- but if you're using meat in a meal, in any course, then dairy products can't be used at all in any dish or course of that meal.

If it's a dairy meal, butter is fine.

[Pam R]

My mother insists that Kraft Mac n Cheese made with Parkay margarine is the one true mac and cheese...

I don't think she's alone. I think there are people who feel that certain recipes work best with margarine. I want to hear about those.

[Chris Amirault]

Though I haven't used the stuff since I moved out of the house for college, I can see that it might be a nice fat for different applications, particularly if you're keeping kosher. Paul Prudhomme uses margarine in a few dishes in his original Louisiana Kitchen. I haven't it handy, but I seem to remember that he finds it the right oil for certain rouxs or étouffées.

I'd also bet dollars to donuts that you'd find a lot of margarine lurking in the kitchens of many restaurants. A butter-flavored fat that doesn't burn at high heat is a lot cheaper and easier to deal with than ghee or clarified butter.... I'm pretty sure that I saw a stainless tub of it at an open kitchen here in Providence the other day; the line cook got all nervous when I was staring at it.

[FoodMan]

Though I haven't used the stuff since I moved out of the house for college, I can see that it might be a nice fat for different applications, particularly if you're keeping kosher. Paul Prudhomme uses margarine in a few dishes in his original Louisiana Kitchen. I haven't it handy, but I seem to remember that he finds it the right oil for certain rouxs or étouffées.

I'd also bet dollars to donuts that you'd find a lot of margarine lurking in the kitchens of many restaurants. A butter-flavored fat that doesn't burn at high heat is a lot cheaper and easier to deal with than ghee or clarified butter.... I'm pretty sure that I saw a stainless tub of it at an open kitchen here in Providence the other day; the line cook got all nervous when I was staring at it.

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Yeah, I never understood why Paul B. does that. I love that book but, I replace ever margarine based roux with a butter one.

Thanks for the explanation Pam. I was I guess only thinking of baked goods (cakes, muffins,...) where butter is essential an no oil can be substituted. With meats and savory meals, I'd use oilive oil or vegetable oil depending on the meal.

I also just remembered that Alton Brown uses butter-flavored margarine in his yellow sponge cake recipe. HE claims that it tastes more like butter than butter .

Edited February 5, 2008 by FoodMan (log)

[Pam R]

I was I guess only thinking of baked goods (cakes, muffins,...) where butter is essential an no oil can be substituted. With meats and savory meals, I'd use oilive oil or vegetable oil depending on the meal.

But what will you use to bake the cake and make the buttercream for the dessert following the steak main?

[FoodMan]

I was I guess only thinking of baked goods (cakes, muffins,...) where butter is essential an no oil can be substituted. With meats and savory meals, I'd use oilive oil or vegetable oil depending on the meal.

But what will you use to bake the cake and make the buttercream for the dessert following the steak main?

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I see, good point. I guess chicken fat might not taste too good in a frosted cake.

[Chris Hennes]

I was I guess only thinking of baked goods (cakes, muffins,...) where butter is essential an no oil can be substituted. With meats and savory meals, I'd use oilive oil or vegetable oil depending on the meal.

But what will you use to bake the cake and make the buttercream for the dessert following the steak main?

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I think the use of margarine as a butter substitute for keeping Kosher is completely reasonable (in fact, I can't think of a more reasonable solution). The really interesting part of the question is, in my opinion, absent dietary restrictions is there a reason to use margarine? I see no reason why margarine would not be superior in some products, in much the same way that other fats are more suited to certain applications. For example, I sometimes use half butter/half margarine in chocolate chip cookies to get the texture that I want.

[FoodMan]

I was I guess only thinking of baked goods (cakes, muffins,...) where butter is essential an no oil can be substituted. With meats and savory meals, I'd use oilive oil or vegetable oil depending on the meal.

But what will you use to bake the cake and make the buttercream for the dessert following the steak main?

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I think the use of margarine as a butter substitute for keeping Kosher is completely reasonable (in fact, I can't think of a more reasonable solution). The really interesting part of the question is, in my opinion, absent dietary restrictions is there a reason to use margarine? I see no reason why margarine would not be superior in some products, in much the same way that other fats are more suited to certain applications. For example, I sometimes use half butter/half margarine in chocolate chip cookies to get the texture that I want.

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See that's where I disagree. IMO, the odd taste and greasy mouthfeel of margarine would not make up for whatever minor improvement there is in texture. I used to do that with biscuits (use half and half), but ever since I tried making them with butter alone there's no going back.

[Pam R]

I don't know about the 'odd taste and greasy mouthfeel' issue. Sure, some of them are horrible. But some of them are pretty good. There are certain brands that I wouldn't touch. But I think a lot of people who don't like margarine would be surprised be the results when using it. In fact, I'm not sure I could tell the difference in some recipes if there was a side-by-side test. I'm not talking about an item where the butter would be the star or highlight of a recipe, but in some baked goods or savoury applications, I think it could be hard to tell.

On toast, I would never choose margarine over butter.

[FoodMuse]

When baking cookies I like to use half butter and half margarine, particularly for chocolate chip cookies. I like a chewy/crispy cookie, and I find this mix of fats give me a great result. All butter is too crumbly for me.

[Rebecca263]

Butter is the reason I had a dairy wedding.

[K8memphis]

This is a fascinating thread. I don't bake as much as I would like to due to restrictions in my diet. And as to margarine itself, I don't know which one is the good one anymore. There are so many spreads now I'd be lost. However I am baking more now for the bookstore that I manage so knowing which margarines are the good ones for baking is great to know. Thanks, Pam, I'll definitely try that one.

But I still have one, no two recipes that I make that take shortening and just won't work the same with butter.

The margarine/shortening wrestling match versus butter/oils is just like the scratch cake versus boxed mix cake wrestling match in that the ingredient we don't like is blamed for every below standard product every produced. The chemical taste, the greasy mouth feel, the poor results, whatever but truth to tell you can so easily get there with butter and scratch cake.

I think that by declaring that a product is leaden and has a greasy mouth feel means that it was not made right in the first place. You can get there handily using butter.

Also, factor in the imitation vanilla experiment where imitation vanilla scored as well as real vanilla in cookies. Was that conducted by Cooks Illustrated?

I am a good baker. I have had countless admirers of my work declare that my stuff was so good because they knew I used only butter or it was all scratch and they could tell and that's the only way blablablablabla. So from these unsolicited responses over these many years I know beyond a shadow of an unscientific doubt most people cannot (even partially) detect ingredients in baked goods to save their lives. I can assure you that in baking it takes much much more than any one ingredient to get to a superb product with an exceptional taste and texture.

I like butter. I use mostly butter. But butter cannot do everything. Margarine is a great tool in the right hands. I guess as a professional I should caution against margarine and say, "Don't try this at home." But I'd really like to say, "Try it!"

A good baker knows how to spin the straw into gold.

[plk]

I use Earth Balance a lot because of frequent meals with vegan friends. And one of them makes really excellent cakes and cookies with this stuff.

[heidih]

I come from a long line of post WWII home cooks that created some incredible baked goods with margarine (Fleischman's unsalted always) and Fluffo (a vegetable shortening that was yellow with carotene and softer than Crisco). I now make the semi puff pastry type items and the baklava with butter, but truth be told, I think the original items made as good a product and possible had better longevity.

[Terrasanct]

I've seen sweet potato pie recipes that insist margarine must be used, but it's not a type of pie I make so I'm not sure.

For me, margarine is something people use if they're vegan or keeping kosher. I can't see any other reason. If it tasted good, I might reconsider. And honestly, I don't buy all the heart-healthy claims. It's not natural, and I'd rather eat food that tastes good and actually comes from nature.

[Doodad]

So, is butter not kosher at all? I thought you could not use it too cook meats, but other than that it's ok.

Butter is kosher -- but if you're using meat in a meal, in any course, then dairy products can't be used at all in any dish or course of that meal.

If it's a dairy meal, butter is fine.

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Can you define a dairy meal in this instance? This is an interesting thread.

My one and only passion for margarine or I can believe it ain't butter is pancakes. Two reasons. Mom did not waste expensive butter on two hungry boys for a scarfing like that and it cuts through the sugary mass produced syrup.

That is my confession for the day, there will be no more.

[qrn]

I have not used margarine for 40 years or so.

I was looking at "The Professional Pastery chef" by Bo Friberg, the other day. And the recipe for Danish pastry, calls for margarine. It says that , "a good margarine gives a better layer structure than butter, which is why it is used in this dough, where the light and flaky texture is more important than the butter flavor"

Bought some , but have not tried it yet...

Bud

[CaliPoutine]

Can you define a dairy meal in this instance? This is an interesting thread

A dairy meal would be something like macaroni and cheese or blintzes or maybe something with eggs. A meal that didnt have any beef or chicken or the like.

I'm Jewish, but we didnt keep kosher. We did however, not drink milk at dinner unless we were having a dairy meal ( those examples above are my examples of diary meals)

Edited February 6, 2008 by CaliPoutine (log)

[MomOfLittleFoodies]

I have a dairy allergic child. I do most of my baking with margarine. Not my first choice (I prefer baking with butter) but it works out ok.

[Doodad]

Can you define a dairy meal in this instance? This is an interesting thread

A dairy meal would be something like macaroni and cheese or blintzes or maybe something with eggs. A meal that didnt have any beef or chicken or the like.

I'm Jewish, but we didnt keep kosher. We did however, not drink milk at dinner unless we were having a dairy meal ( those examples above are my examples of diary meals)

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Thanks for that. So Philly Cheesesteak is right out!?

But, each course can change and the restriction changes?

[Rebecca263]

Here is a good site for knowledge about Kashrut.Kashrut: The Jewish Dietary Laws